Author Topic: Interesting or unusual planes?  (Read 137456 times)

Rig of Jarkness

  • An Englishman abroad
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2010, 07:39:29 pm »
There's been numerous Flickr posts of this about turn seen over Edinburgh last weekend.  I assumed that it had been told to turn around because the airport was closing but others have suggested that it's too high for that. 
Aero but not dynamic

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2010, 08:43:41 am »
I always though the Do 335 was interesting.

Yes they produced some interesting aircraft but I think this is so cool!



I guess there is an engine in the middle somewhere. There must be a driveshaft from there to the propellor. Wouldn't that get in the way of where the pilot would normally have his joystick?
Quote from: Kim
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clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2010, 09:12:06 am »
It looks like a very supine position, but the mid-engine approach was adopted for the Bell P-39 Airacobra.

There were several experiments with supine and prone pilot positions with the aim of narrowing the required fuselage.
Getting there...

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2010, 11:26:24 am »
Indeed the pilot was in a recumbent position (what's the difference between supine and recumbent?  Is supine flat on the back?). It had twin engines driving contra rotating props with the prop shafts running down each side of him.  Conventional joystick.  Note the radiator inlets on the tail planes - I believe the air entered in at the rear flowed forwards the front the exited at the wing roots.

Interestingly it is a pre-war design which was hidden from the Germans thoughout the war.

More pix and info here:

http://www.bugattibuilder.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=683

Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2010, 01:19:59 pm »
Fascinating.   :thumbsup:

Mind you, if it flew, the pilot would be deaf, with their head being right up against the firewall for the engine.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2010, 05:03:48 pm »
Just read this thread and it pointed towards listening to the sound of a Spitfire on YouTube.

Is there any better sound than that ????
Bread of heaven, bread of heaven.

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2010, 05:56:29 pm »
Only a Lanc . . . Or a formation  ;D
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Rig of Jarkness

  • An Englishman abroad
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2010, 07:21:59 pm »
Only a Lanc . . . Or a formation  ;D
An interesting thought.  I believe that Lancs, Spitfires and Hurricanes all had the same RR Merlin engines.  Does the engine sound different in each one ?
Aero but not dynamic

Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2010, 08:33:18 pm »
Different versions of engines, different superchargers, altered exhausts.  Also bear in mind the first Merlins installed in the Mark 1 Spitfire developed just over 1,000 horsepower, whilst later models were 1,700 hp and by the end of the war, 2,000 hp.

If you listened to 2 one after the other, they'd possibly sound a bit different.  But both marvellous.  :)
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2010, 08:46:24 pm »
I quite like the sound made by an Allison V-1710 near the ground. They were fitted to the early ground attack P51 Mustangs, and to the Tomahawks that were also used in the desert war. They were alright at sea level, but the lack of effective two-stage supercharging made them poor at altitude, until they were fitted with turbochargers. However, they were designed for mass production and had half the parts count of a Merlin. They are fairly interesting, but not as interesting as the Napier Sabre.
Allison V-1710 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2010, 09:01:29 pm »
I've been interested in the Hawker Typhoon, since reading about the fear they engendered in the German Army, especially at Falaise. They were the most feared of the Jabos. The Tempest variant had the same Napier Sabre engine, there's an identification film which gives an idea of what they sounded like, which is mildly terrifying.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/BKq51LdJ-ZU&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/BKq51LdJ-ZU&rel=1</a>

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2010, 11:51:31 pm »
If you want a scary noise then there ain't much that makes a more distinctive sound than a Deltic on startup . . .
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2010, 12:14:23 am »
If you want a scary noise then there ain't much that makes a more distinctive sound than a Deltic on startup . . .

Oddly you're not off topic there, Napier made the Deltic engine, it was essentially three Culverin engines joined together in a Delta formation, hence the name. The Culverin was a version of the Junkers Jumo 205 diesel aero engine. That powered the JU 86, without much success, as the engines were heavy and unsuitable for combat. The JU 86 was also an airliner, and the South Africans bought 17, mainly with Pratt and Whitney Wasp engines. Those were converted to bombers in WW2, so the JU 86 fought on both sides in that conflict. Which is both interesting and unusual.
Junkers Ju 86

Torslanda

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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #38 on: December 15, 2010, 10:53:35 pm »
24 cylinders in an H pattern, sleeve valved, supercharged and all in an aircraft that nobody expected to last more than a few days in combat.

A fantastic engineering concept let down by poor execution. Napier made a beautifully engineered product but they weren't suited to mass production. Early Sabres seized with alarming frequency. A friend worked on Tempests in Egypt in his National Service and told me the later marques were much more reliable but he thought that was because they could spend more time fettling them.

I know there's one or two Sea Furies knocking about but does anyone know if any Typhoons or Tempests are still around?
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #39 on: December 15, 2010, 10:57:56 pm »
IIRC there's a Typhoon still flying in the midwest.  Most likely near Reno, which seems to be a magnet for such things.

Beautiful machines.
Getting there...

Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2010, 01:32:34 pm »
Bearing in mind the removal of the Harriers from the air, I recently came across a comment about an American privately owned AV8B.

I bet his fuel bills are a bit higher than average...........
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2010, 04:13:17 pm »
I was reminded by talk of the Naval Aircraft Factory, that the US War Department sponsored early experiments in heavier than air machines.
Langley Aerodrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It looked like this.


The engine was vastly better than the Wright engine,
Manly-Balzer engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It could have beaten the Wrights to the first manned flight but it was scaled up from a successful quarter-scale model without allowing for the increased stresses and it broke up.


Percy Pilcher very nearly made the first powered flight in Leicestershire in 1899

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Pilcher

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2010, 04:26:07 pm »
The first International Space Station??!
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2010, 05:58:06 pm »
24 cylinders in an H pattern, sleeve valved, supercharged and all in an aircraft that nobody expected to last more than a few days in combat.

A fantastic engineering concept let down by poor execution. Napier made a beautifully engineered product but they weren't suited to mass production. Early Sabres seized with alarming frequency. A friend worked on Tempests in Egypt in his National Service and told me the later marques were much more reliable but he thought that was because they could spend more time fettling them.

I know there's one or two Sea Furies knocking about but does anyone know if any Typhoons or Tempests are still around?

The story was that a squadron of the early Typhoons had had the engine management tinkered with, so they were being run at full boost and full coarse pitch at sea level, so the engines blew up.
Napier never had any chance of making large numbers of the Sabre, so the government had English Electric take them over. The Air Ministry was keen on encouraging new ideas, especially as jets were on the horizon. EE had dabbled with flying boats at Freckleton on the River Ribble, so they had some aviation experience.
It put the wind up Rolls Royce, whose lobbying power made them a bit complacent. The Merlin was developed so readily because it was largely craftsman built. Like the Spitfire it was very poorly designed for mass production. Packard did a lot of good work in productionising the Merlin in the US as the V-1650. But the best input came from Ford at Trafford Park, who built a lot of Merlins and knocked a lot of the awkward edges off the process of making them.

Quote
Having an abandoned factory in Trafford Park, Ford of Britain was approached about the possibility of converting it into an aircraft engine production unit by Herbert Austin, who was in charge of the shadow factory plan. Building work on a new factory was started in May 1940 on a 118-acre (48 ha) site, while Ford engineers went on a fact finding mission to Derby. Their chief engineer commented to Sir Stanley Hooker that the tolerances used were far too wide for them, and so the 20,000 drawings would need to be redrawn to Ford tolerance levels, which took over a year.[63] Ford's factory was built with two distinct sections to minimise potential bomb damage, it was completed in May 1941 and bombed in the same month. At first, the factory had difficulty in attracting suitable labour, and large numbers of women, youths and untrained men had to be taken on. Despite this, the first Merlin engine came off the production line one month later[64] and it was building the engine at a rate of 200 per week by 1943, at which point the joint factories were producing 18,000 Merlins per year.[25] Ford’s investment in machinery and the redesign resulted in the 10,000 man-hours needed to produce a Merlin dropping to 2,727 in three years, while unit cost fell from £6,540 in June 1941 to £1,180 by the war’s end. In his autobiography Not much of an Engineer, Sir Stanley Hooker states: "... once the great Ford factory at Manchester started production, Merlins came out like shelling peas. The percentage of engines rejected by the Air Ministry was zero. Not one engine of the 30,400 produced was rejected ...".[65] Some 17,316 people worked at the Trafford Park plant, including 7,260 women and two resident doctors and nurses.[64] Merlin production started to run down in August 1945, and finally ceased on 23 March 1946

Rolls-Royce Merlin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2010, 08:28:24 pm »

I know there's one or two Sea Furies knocking about but does anyone know if any Typhoons or Tempests are still around?

The only surviving Hawker Typhoon is the one preserved at RAF Hendon.  For the Tempest, 11 survive although none are currently airworthy.  The Kermit Weeks one is the most likely to get in the air.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
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Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2010, 11:31:37 am »
Dear Santa . . .

 . . . I have been a very good boy this year
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2010, 11:40:20 am »

a lower gear

  • Carmarthenshire - "Not ALWAYS raining!"
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2010, 06:27:15 pm »
Just found this thread - and was gravely disappointed as I anticpated discussion of antique wood-working equipment!

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2010, 06:54:32 pm »
This guy in Leicestrshire has got the right idea  :thumbsup:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/leicester/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_9005000/9005829.stm

Am I alone in thinking he could pass for an older version of a gentleman of this parish?
Getting there...

Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: Interesting or unusual planes?
« Reply #49 on: December 31, 2010, 09:50:59 am »
I forgot to mention the other day I had a Piaggio Avanti fly over me on approach to Luton Airport. 

Lovely.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein