Author Topic: Boonen Out Of Tour!  (Read 6874 times)

gonzo

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2008, 11:03:30 pm »
Got a tricky mountain TT in the middle of the third week of the Tour? Quick hit and you're sorted...

Yeah, but he wasn't in a 3 week tour. This isn't like taking part in a course of EPO over the winter months to improve yourself. This is taking recreational drugs for his own entertainment.

GruB; see above. He's not cheating. It's like saying that the police caught him speeding (hold on...). It's illegal yeah, but it's not making any benefical difference to his performance in racing. People are overly cautious about any cyclist having anything to do with drugs, but there are different types of drugs; recreational and performance enhancing.

Quickstep and Specialized are staying with the team for at least another 3 years; Tom's too much of a celeb in Belgium to drop him that easily.

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2008, 11:29:07 pm »
Gonzo,
I totally understand what you are saying, but I am assuming the worst.  I can only be surprised for the better that way.  Cyclists take cocaine for both performance and recreational use.  I smell a rat.  He is the prodigy of a cheat, so I reckon time will tell.  You are right about the team and sponsor though, and no wonders the sport is in such a mess.  Imagine the message it would send if they dropped the team like a hot potato !!

Domestique

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2008, 06:58:26 am »
Isnt cocaine a masking drug?
Whatever, how fecking stupid are some of these sports people.

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2008, 08:50:54 am »
Isnt cocaine a masking drug?
Whatever, how fecking stupid are some of these sports people.

Domestique you may have just hit the nail on the head.  When I was in Australia I read Matt Rendell's book on Marco Pantani.  I was trying to rack my brain for the significance of cocaine, but for the life of me I couldn't.  Pantani was on loads of the stuff throughout his career although the governing bodies in Italy never seemed to bother with the amounts he must have been positive with ( except possibly very late in his career and at the time of the Olympics it became an issue ). That in itself is telling as there would appear to be a culture of acceptance regarding cocaine in the peleton / soigneurs etc.  If it is a masking drug - then what a surprise.

gonzo

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2008, 08:58:41 am »
I've never heard Tomeke implicated in the various performance enchancing drug scandals over the years (nor was he in US posal for very long; usually a good thing as far as drugs are concerned) nor have I heard his name bought up in discussions about drugs previously.

I'm very cynical about drug use in the peleton, but sprinters don't generally seem to be as involved with enancing drugs as others as they only need to perform occasionally and can just quit when the going gets tough in the mountains.

If he was caught for EPO use, then he'd become widely hated. He hasn't been. The only problem is that it's a civil offence. He shouldn't technically have even banned from the tour as they are only meant to ban people on performance enhancing stuff.

It's all very rock and roll and utterly stupid. The only damage it's doing to cycling is that you lot are equating him to the people on courses of performance enhancers as you're so used to hearing about; "rider tests positive".

Imagine if they'd said Tom Boonen found to be drunk in charge of a car (*ahem*). He's failed a drugs test there too.

Domestique

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2008, 09:58:43 am »
The thing is Gonzo he knows he is going to get drug tested, why would he take something when he knows he is going to get caught and put him out of the Tour?
Doesnt make sense to me.

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2008, 10:09:43 am »
Gonzo,
You have your head in the sand in my opinion.  Good luck to you.  I can't do that.

gonzo

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2008, 10:22:50 am »
The thing is Gonzo he knows he is going to get drug tested, why would he take something when he knows he is going to get caught and put him out of the Tour?
Doesnt make sense to me.

Why did he get pissed then drive? On another occasion why did he do 2x the speed limit on some motorway? Why do you hear about footballers on rec drugs? Why do you occasionally have far too much to drink?

People do stupid things.

Also, as I've already said, it shouldn't have put him out of the tour. That was the UCI/ASO banning him in much the same way as with Astana.

Gonzo,
You have your head in the sand in my opinion.  Good luck to you.  I can't do that.

Didn't you say that you thought Lance was clean ;)

You're mistaken, I know and accept that most pros are on drugs. All we're talking about here is a single test result. Ignore everything else. He hasn't been caught cheating. He's been caught doing something illegal. You need to be able to see the difference between these.

In response to an earlier question, I don't think that coke is a covering agent; The UCI bans the covering drugs and coke isn't on their list of banned substances (or at least, that's my understanding).

alan

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2008, 10:38:24 am »
The guy is using drugs.He is a role model for some people & this fact makes drug use,irrespective of it being for leisure or cheating, un-acceptable to my mind.
It's a pity the team sponsers do not have the wherewithall to drop him as an example of zero-tolerance to drug use.

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2008, 09:10:17 am »
I remembered the recent information that I had read that was causing me to a have a niggling doubt in my mind - and here it is:

Cycle Sport - June 2008 - article on Boonen:
The media can't believe how they misread his Spring form prior to Paris Roubaix so badly:

"In 2007, he won Kuurne, Across Flanders and E3-Harelbeke and they still kept talking about Boonen's failed spring.  What will happen if he misses out on Sunday at Roubaix?"

But the most devastating criticisms of all probably came from Roger De Vlaeminck.  Never one to mince his words, 'Mr Paris Roubaix' simply stated:  "Boonen's racing badly.

I hardly know anything about him anymore.  But what I've seen doesn't inspire any confidence.  In Flanders when Devolder went for it, he was out there by himself.

If Boonen was as good as he said he was, why didn't he go with Juan Antonio Flecha or Nick Nuyens when they tried to chase down Devolder in the last five kilometres of the race?

I didn't see him in Ghent-Wevelgem either, where all Boonen did was whinge about the descent of the Kemmelberg.  Enough!  In my day we used to go down the Kemmel descent four time a year without complaining.

I know riders' mentalities change, but when a rider complains about the route, it's because they haven't got the form.  That hasn't changed.  I hope I'm wrong, but I really don't believe it is going to happen".

There was also a lot of talk about the pressure with Flanders from the public expectation, his split with his long time girlfriend and then getting back together with her again.  The article implies that Boonen has a world of pressure on him to provide the goods - the hopes and dreams of a whole nation.

( This sounds very similar to the Matt Rendell book on Pantani ) Alarm bells ringing??

Also - just one question on your comment about cocaine above - should the UCI ban a drug that in itself is illegal in the first place?

Any yes, I once dreamed that Armstrong was clean.  I now have my serious doubts about that following the reading of the Pantani book.  It is such a shame when dreams are shattered.

alan

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2008, 09:52:28 am »
The UCI, & other cycling governing/controlling bodies should formaly ban all drugs that are illegal.Do these people not understand the phrase "united front"?

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2008, 10:34:11 am »
Gonzo and all,

Just to clarify my position - I don't like being taken for a chump.  By anyone.
I didn't realise just how many cheats there were out there in the big world of pro racing.
Now I do.
I really admired Ivan Basso - I loved the way he effortlessly rode up hills.  He seemed like a really good rider to dream about when riding up hills myself.  I liked reading about him in the pro mags.
By default I liked the team he was on.  I liked their bikes, their colours, their ethos.

Then Peurto came along and my dreams were busted.  I stopped my pro mag subscriptions in disgust.  I didn't watch the tour of ITV2 that year in disgust.  I felt cheated.

Now, things seem to be getting better.  I have learnt a bit more about the mindset and workings of a team ( via that book ) and I feel like I have grown up a bit when it comes to understanding what goes on.  I don't accept it, but I feel I understand it.

Boonen has always been ace in my eyes.  But, because of the revelations about Museouw ( sic ) I have always had my doubts.  I didn't want to, but they were there.

I really want this to all be a private matter, one that has more to do with his love life than his bike life, but I can't just shake the spectre of doubt that lingers at times like this.

I really do hope that my fears are wrong.  It would be such a shame if not.

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2009, 09:23:22 am »
I've had cause to come back to this thread as I'm currently reading Paul Kimmage's book - Rough Ride.  The chapter about 'charges' made me remember this discussion.  The charge was generally amphetamine but could also be crack cocaine.  I Googled two of the slang names in the book and established this.
The type of race determined if the charge was taken before or during.  Sometimes riders took a syringe cut down to size with them in their back pocket.  Tablets were also used but were not as effective as a shot directly into the body.

What Kimmage as saying is that the mind was the hardest part of the body to control, to motivate, to get going and keep going.  The charge made all that possible.  The charge made them keep going when in reality they just wanted to drop.

It may not be performance enhancing in the same way as EPO or testosterone, I accept that, but it is a perofrmance enhancing drug in my mind if you just want to stop and die because you are so tired or miserable and taking something that makes you feel invincible washes all that away.

The big advantage for the riders in my mind is they can say the use was recreational and NOT for the sport.  I don't think this is the case from reading the book.

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2009, 09:32:16 am »
Eddy Merckx was done for drugs.  People like to forget that.

Anyway.... I reckon Armstrongs days are numbered.......

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2009, 09:02:10 pm »


What Kimmage as saying is that the mind was the hardest part of the body to control, to motivate, to get going and keep going.  The charge made all that possible.  The charge made them keep going when in reality they just wanted to drop.

It may not be performance enhancing in the same way as EPO or testosterone, I accept that, but it is a perofrmance enhancing drug in my mind if you just want to stop and die because you are so tired or miserable and taking something that makes you feel invincible washes all that away.
.

IIUC Bolivian lead miners used to chew coca leaves to extract cocaine to help them cope with the sodding miserable existence they had - all that pain and suffering.  Therefore a perfect drug for TdF cyclists to help them cope with the pain and suffering. No?


"What a long, strange trip it's been", Truckin'

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2009, 09:42:55 pm »
Exactly the point.  A lot of us on here report feeling low and tired and run down.  Perhaps cocaine would help with the uber commuting too?  :o

αdαmsκι

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Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2009, 10:12:24 pm »
Coca leaf time is tasty stuff  :thumbsup:

Anyway, an impressive result from Boonen today in the Paris-Roubaix race.
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Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2009, 11:23:15 pm »
Yes, he certainly took charge of the race.

Thor

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Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #43 on: April 12, 2009, 11:42:14 pm »
Charge or not, it helped that all his rivals crashed at a particularly inopportune point.  :-\
It was a day like any other in Ireland, only it wasn't raining

ChrisO

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2009, 04:56:02 am »
In the context of the supposed rivalry with  Cavendish I have to hand it to Boonen that he can win a race like Paris-Roubaix (three bloody times) and still turn up to contest the sprints and green jersey at the TdF.

In that sense Cav is more in the McEwen-Zabel mode of being delivered to the final straight than the Boonen-O'Grady style of taking the race on.

They should lay a few miles of pave on the Isle of Man.

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2009, 07:57:33 am »
Charge or not, it helped that all his rivals crashed at a particularly inopportune point.  :-\

Tired men crash, just as tired men puncture!

The fresher you are the more alert you are, and you are more likely to avoid the crashes and the punctures.

αdαmsκι

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Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2009, 08:40:59 am »
In that sense Cav is more in the McEwen-Zabel mode of being delivered to the final straight than the Boonen-O'Grady style of taking the race on.

That's very true, but Cavendish is still young and it will be interesting to see if he's able to develop into a rider that can take charge of a race like Boonen did.
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

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Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #47 on: April 14, 2009, 09:50:27 am »
Charge or not, it helped that all his rivals crashed at a particularly inopportune point.  :-\

Tired men crash, just as tired men puncture!

The fresher you are the more alert you are, and you are more likely to avoid the crashes and the punctures.


Especially as the crash by Hushovd was simply a case of overcooking a corner. Hoste and Pozzato were in the wrong spot, Boonen was leading at the point where Flecha crashed.

Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #48 on: April 14, 2009, 09:02:43 pm »
Charge or not, it helped that all his rivals crashed at a particularly inopportune point.  :-\
It was no accident that Boonen missed all the crashes and consequent holdups. If you are at the front you don't get held up by a pile of crashed riders, you don't get brought off by fallen riders, and you've got a good sight of potholes and the right lines on corners.

Thor

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Re: Boonen Out Of Tour!
« Reply #49 on: April 14, 2009, 09:57:53 pm »
Charge or not, it helped that all his rivals crashed at a particularly inopportune point.  :-\
It was no accident that Boonen missed all the crashes and consequent holdups. If you are at the front you don't get held up by a pile of crashed riders, you don't get brought off by fallen riders, and you've got a good sight of potholes and the right lines on corners.

So what you're saying is - if you stay at the front throughout the race, you'll win?!

If only lesser riders realised this...
It was a day like any other in Ireland, only it wasn't raining