Author Topic: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?  (Read 12287 times)

GrahamG

  • Babies bugger bicycling
Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« on: November 18, 2010, 12:01:09 pm »
Right, a lengthy pondering post for feedback from the parish.... what would you do?

I was set on an Oregon based upon the fantastically practical AA battery thing. However, I've started doing more structured actual 'training' on the bike which involved getting a copy of the black book/annual manual, stealing a cadence measuring cateye computer off my brother and getting a basic watch style heart rate monitor to strap to the bars.

I've already run out of space on the bars for audaxes with the HRM going on the wrist and replaced by route sheet holder as the bike computer is the other side of the stem, which got me to thinking of the GPS options:

Edge 705/800 as a 'do everything.
Pro's include:
  • having all data in one place
    having a wireless cadence/speed sensor in place of current wiry mess
    having room for both the GPS and route sheet holder on the bars (for backup!)
    Easy to transfer between bikes (especially 800!)
    Can actually input the training regime and get promts! Saves having to memorise the interval routine or have a written bit on the bars (I've a diabolical memory)

Con's:
  • Battery - for anything over 15 hours, either longer audaxes (admittedly infrequent!) or tours (annually). I'd need to get one of those B&M E-works charger things that plugs into a dynamo hub (£100 from Germany). I might consider this for touring purposes anyway now I've got a battery eating smart phone.
    Convenience - would need to ensure GPS charged and ready everytime I go out for a ride just for the sake of speed/distance etc. also get in the habit of removing it from bars the moment I leave the bike. possible ball ache?
    I'd be paranoid about someone snatching it off the bike!


Oregon 450 as a route mapper GPS only

Pro's:
Cheaper
Only needs to come out on the bike when it's actually needed.
AA batteries mega convenient for touring or to thwart forgetfulness (providing there's spares in the bag or a shop nearby!)
Won't have loads of wires up the fork and charger unit cluttering up the place

Cons:
  • Will have to find cockpit space for GPS + route sheet holder + bike computer and maybe, on occasion, HRM too. Reet mess, probably not possible without  looking like peewee herman accessorised it.
    I'm struggling to see any other cons


Am I missing anything here in terms of potential ball ache/annoyance? The whole e-werk/dinamo lighting swapping thing really doesn't appeal but mightn't be that bad if I
Brummie in exile (may it forever be so)

Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2010, 12:11:02 pm »
I've gone for:-

Edge 705
PowerTap wheel for even more data!
Extra cadence/speed sensors on other bikes (an extra £35 each)

For long Audaxes I use a PortaPow Li-Ion battery pack. That's enough to keep the Edge 705 going over a 600km Audax and keep my iPhone topped up too.

For longer Audaxes (i.e. PBP) I'll just use a cheapo battery pack that allows me to plug in 4 x AA batteries and provides USB out to charge/power the Edge 705 and iPhone. Batteries are easily available, or carry a stock of rechargeables.

For touring I'd take the PortaPow and look to charge it up from the mains every couple of days or so (the charging adapter is very small and light). Battery pack thingy as a backup.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Biggsy

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Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2010, 12:15:50 pm »
I can hardly help since I'm only a GPS-newbie myself - but removing a 705 (or 605 in my case) from the bracket is as easy as easy can be, and popped into any pocket or small bag.  So that point can be struck off the list of worries.

The handlebar stem is the best place for an Edge - so you won't necessarily need more space on the bars.
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dasmoth

  • Techno-optimist
Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2010, 12:19:36 pm »
Sorry if I'm missing something but if you like the Oregon and want to stick to AA batteries, why not get Oregon + HR + Cadence sensors and use that as a "do everything"?
Half term's when the traffic becomes mysteriously less bad for a week.

corshamjim

Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2010, 12:22:52 pm »
Or even a Dakota 20 and add the HR and Cadence sensors if you want.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
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Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2010, 12:26:52 pm »
For long Audaxes I use a PortaPow Li-Ion battery pack. That's enough to keep the Edge 705 going over a 600km Audax and keep my iPhone topped up too.

On a dark 200km it also means yo can have the back-light on continuous, if you are of a nervous disposition.
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Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2010, 12:27:28 pm »
Quote
Convenience - would need to ensure GPS charged and ready everytime I go out for a ride just for the sake of speed/distance etc.

Won't be a problem.

I left mine fully charged for 2 weeks. When I went to use it was still showing full charge. The charge doesn't drop like NiMH rechargeables.

Quote
also get in the habit of removing it from bars the moment I leave the bike. possible ball ache?

I'd be paranoid about someone snatching it off the bike!

Indeed, so am I, I never leave it on there. As Biggsy says, it takes seconds to unclip. If anything the clip is a little too delicate. I'm a bit nervous about it popping out on a bouncy fast descent. I was going to look at attaching a lanyard of some sort...
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

GrahamG

  • Babies bugger bicycling
Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2010, 12:33:02 pm »
Sorry if I'm missing something but if you like the Oregon and want to stick to AA batteries, why not get Oregon + HR + Cadence sensors and use that as a "do everything"?

I didn't realise you could do this - garmin site just has their info geared to other uses! It presumably wouldn't have the training flexibility bit though and just provide the basic info back. Thanks ever so much for bring that up though, I was totally unawares!
Brummie in exile (may it forever be so)

Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2010, 01:08:02 pm »
I have a 305 and an Oregon 450, I bought the 450 for walking and have now got a bike bracket for the Oregon. The Oregon screen kicks ass, and the battery life is great. I've only used the Oregon for a few rides, no HRM or cadence, but I have been very impressed - I did a ride from London to Coventry mostly through back streets and completely unknown territory without putting a wheel wrong. The large touch screen is great benefit when you need to see what might be happening. I would also say that the 305/705 clip is very flimsy, and the latch is prone to break. I have had the 305 bounce out on occasion, and to its credit it survived the experience. I know the 305 is not the same as the route mapping 705, but I would choose the Oregon every time for its versatility. If that doesn't count, the real advantage of the 705/800 I can see  is the smaller package.  Using the Oregon touch screen with gloves is possible.

GrahamG

  • Babies bugger bicycling
Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2010, 01:37:57 pm »
I think it'd probably be the 800 which has solved the flimsy mount issue apparently. I guess it's just a choice as to whether or not I'll use the training features - need to find somewhere to demo that lot when it finds its way into stock.

Thanks all for the replies - I wasn't expecting such a quick succession!
Brummie in exile (may it forever be so)

Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2010, 01:39:21 pm »
To be fair to the Edge 705 mount, I've done 5000km+ with mine and it's holding just as well as it did on day 1. Doesn't stop me being nervous about it though.

Stem mounted works best and leaves handlebars free for hands...
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2010, 01:49:35 pm »
Other things that made me go for an Oregon:

* It's convenient for walking or other activities too - you may or may not care about this.

* Think of the battery thing not just now, but in a couple of years time if you intend to use it that long.  Both your LiPoly battery and AA NiMH will have declined greatly by then.  Will you still be able to get a replacement 705 battery?  What will it cost?  AAs will be pretty easy, and probably even improved.

* Oregon has a "picture viewer" with zoom and scroll.  This means you can put a jpeg of notes on it at home and view them in your convenient waterproof GPS when you want to without mucking about looking for the bits of paper.  May or may not be of interest to you.


On tour, I've extended battery time massively by only turning it on as needed anyway.  It's very useful to have on the bars available within 30 seconds even when turned off most of the time.  This applies to either option (provided you're running a separate cycle computer or don't care about distance logged).

Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2010, 02:04:58 pm »
To be fair to the Edge 705 mount, I've done 5000km+ with mine and it's holding just as well as it did on day 1. Doesn't stop me being nervous about it though.

Stem mounted works best and leaves handlebars free for hands...

OK, to be fair, the issue is not holding it in situ or the basic design, it is when you DON'T mount the device in the holder that the clip is most subject to getting caught, bending, weakening and breaking.  I've tried different locations and they all seem to suffer. The Oregon seems to be made of sterner stuff, although when I mentioned it previously someone here said that was also prone to weakening. The Oregon has a larger mass and therefore will stress a bracket more than a 705

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2010, 02:18:34 pm »

* Think of the battery thing not just now, but in a couple of years time if you intend to use it that long.  Both your LiPoly battery and AA NiMH will have declined greatly by then.  Will you still be able to get a replacement 705 battery?  What will it cost?  AAs will be pretty easy, and probably even improved.

You can change them yourself if you are reasonably handy. c £25
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Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2010, 02:28:05 pm »
You can change them yourself if you are reasonably handy. c £25

I was assuming you could.
I wasn't asking about what they cost now, but about buying one in a couple of years time.
(no, buying a spare one now and storing it won't work, not unless you keep it in the fridge)

Biggsy

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Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2010, 03:55:09 pm »
I suspect that the Edge 705 is popular enough that replacement batteries will be around for more than a couple more years - from Chinese independents as well as Garmin.  This is the case with batteries for popular cameras - still available well after the cameras are discontinued.

If that is too optimistic, well, you might want a new model by then anyway.  GPSs are bound to improve spectacularly.
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frankly frankie

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Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2010, 06:18:43 pm »
Not if the last couple of years is anything to go by - in some respects newer Garmins are nothing like as good as the older ones.  Certainly far less configurable, which is my main complaint.  And there's not really any room for accuracy to improve, on leisure-grade GPS.

So that leaves the display as the thing that is most likely to improve - except when you look at this:
newer Garmin on the left, older model on the right

you have to wonder if they really are going in the right direction.
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Jaded

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  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2010, 06:24:55 pm »
For me better displays (bigger, clearer, with changeable font sizes - not touch screen as I often cycle with gloves) and significantly faster processors (orders of magnitude, not 50% faster etc) would encourage me to upgrade from my 705 more than having ubiquitous batteries.

If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

dasmoth

  • Techno-optimist
Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2010, 06:31:53 pm »
I can't help feeling there's an aspect of familiarity when it comes to preferred display style.  Certainly, I'd pick the one on the left.  Nothing says "clunky" to my eyes faster than non-antialiased text rendering.

That said, I've not used a Dakota in anger myself and I get the impression that it's trying to squeeze what's essentially the Oregon firmware into a screen that's smaller than it was originally designed for -- which might create issues.

There's definitely scope for improvement in the software layer.  Routing along tracks would be nice, for instance, and there's lots of scope for improving the map rendering.  Garmin don't seem too interested in opening up development for their devices though (except through the Wherigo system, which has its own limitations).  I have a suspicion that the days of the "leisure GPS" are numbered, though, and by the time I need a new one it'll just be another piece of software for my phone.
Half term's when the traffic becomes mysteriously less bad for a week.

Jaded

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  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2010, 06:34:45 pm »
it'll just be another piece of software for my phone.


Like  this?

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Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2010, 06:38:54 pm »
To be fair to the Edge 705 mount, I've done 5000km+ with mine and it's holding just as well as it did on day 1. Doesn't stop me being nervous about it though.

I've broken three in about 20000km.

Two have failed with the lever on the clip - but in a "safe" way, where the 705 is still held securely. You need to get in with a small key or screwdriver to remove it.
One failed where the cable ties pass through the mount. It seemed to be vibrating more than usual, then I realised it was only actually held on by one tie.

dasmoth

  • Techno-optimist
Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2010, 06:40:10 pm »
it'll just be another piece of software for my phone.


Like  this?

Quite.

Although surely there's a fair amount of prior art -- existing wireless sensor networks, smartphone fitness applications, etc.
Half term's when the traffic becomes mysteriously less bad for a week.

dasmoth

  • Techno-optimist
Half term's when the traffic becomes mysteriously less bad for a week.

Adam

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Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2010, 06:47:27 pm »
I've been building up a spreadsheet full of data on all the available GPS units to help me decide which one to get, and the Oregon certainly seems to have more plus features over the Edge.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

Re: Garmin Edge vs. Oregon (and the battery thing!) WWYD?
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2010, 11:06:38 pm »
I've owned a 705 for about two years before replacing it with an Oregon earlier this year and in my opinion the Oregon is a lot better unit for. And it is more reliable - I had the 705 freeze, stop navigating, currupt GPX files, and of course the battery problem is always a problem no matter which work around you have.

The 705 is also very bike specific (could be a plus) but as I also use the GPS for walking the Oregon is a better all-round unit.

I also had a Dekota for a weekend - I felt it was just too small on the bike and felt a lot more flimsy than the Oregon - of course the smaller size may be a massive plus for some.

Only my opinion of course - others may see it differently but there is no way I'd go back to a 705 after using the Oregon.