Author Topic: training tips for 600kms audax events  (Read 35204 times)

Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2010, 12:47:44 am »
Dai, I'm in a similar boat. I've done a 400 but haven't yet finished a 600. What's stopping me is more mental than physical. I am perfectly happy riding for 10 to 12 hours. At my pace, this gets me roughly half way round a 400 and every km beyond that brings me closer to the finish so my head stays good.

On a 600 this just doesn't work. The thought, after riding for 10 hours, that this time tomorrow I will probably still be on the bloody road crushes me. As everyone else here, I love being out on the bike but, right now, a full day seems to be my limit.

Billy Weir

Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #51 on: December 06, 2010, 07:53:53 am »
Do the seasoned audaxers on here think that doing a 400kms a week before doing a 600kms is mad?

In your first year of long distance, having done few rides above 200 to date?  It will be challenging but not impossible, provided you are determined to do it and don't pick up a twinge.

My own rule of thumb is that recovery takes around 1 day per 100km.

LeFlic

  • Retired and enjoying it!
    • Somer Valley Cycling Club
Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2010, 08:22:17 am »
This is a an interesting thread. I think there are quite a few of us in your position Dai.

I rode my first 300 this year and am now planning my qualifying rides for next August. I am keen to pick up as many tips as possible, route finding in the dark is one of my concerns.

Are you joining those of us in the Bristol area who are planning some get togethers next year?

As an aside, should I be entering events that take place in May and June now? I usually enter about a month ahead.


Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2010, 08:28:29 am »
My tips:

Make sure your bike fits you perfectly.  At these very long distances, your body will lose the ability to cope with imperfections that it can cope with on shorter rides.  I had unresolved fit issues on my first 600 and I suffered for it. 

Don't think of it as 600km.  Think of it as 50km to the next control. 

The Seething 600 is an excellent first ride.  You can ride 300km back to the start, strap on your big lights and don an extra layer and eat a good meal, go for a little short bike ride to take you to 400km at the start again, get some sleep and then ride the 200km the next day.

Hummers

  • It is all about the taste.
Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2010, 08:30:02 am »
Another personal view but depending how fit you are, a 600 is either a pleasureable 400 + a 200 separated by ~6 hours off the bike overnight or a reasonably paced ~30 hour ride. 400s are quite often organised in such a way that an overnight sleep stop is neither practical or catered for whilst it is not hard to find 600 events where there will somewhere to get off the road for a kip or there is something organised for you. For that reaon, I'd rather ride two good 600s than a 400 + 600.

As has been said, we are all different but I wouldn't want to ride a 400 the week before a 600 unless I really had to.  Two weeks before seems to be the optimum for me but there are plenty of people that have done a whole SR series by riding on consecutive weekends. Ideally, I'd leave three weeks between >400k events but to a degree, it makes a difference how tough the rides are although my reckoning is that all rides over 300k are going to be a challenge at some point and should not be underestimated.

H

Billy Weir

Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2010, 09:27:10 am »
As an aside, should I be entering events that take place in May and June now? I usually enter about a month ahead.

In PBP years, many people enter earlier than they would usually (usual being 2 to 4 weeks in advance).  That said, people entering events now are making a statement of intent more than anything else.  A month will be fine, unless the thought of not entering is biting away at your insides.  In which case, get it out of the way.

Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2010, 09:29:35 am »
I rode my first 300 a week before my first 600. That seemed to work (it was quite a long time ago). The main thing is to prepare well so that the 400 doesn't exhaust you. Then ensure you sleep well during the intervening week, with just a few miles on the bike to keep the legs turning.

Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2010, 09:59:49 am »
Just like to say thanks for all the tips will take them all onboard. Have never ridden through the night before so that should be an experience.
Climb every mountain, onwards and upwards.
Next event:- ??????

Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2010, 11:00:28 am »
I like to have at least 3-weeks between a 400 and a 600.  A 400 is still a long ride which I find takes a bit out of me mentally, therefore a relatively easy 3 or 4 week period allows me to recover mentally so that I am then ready for a 600.

Rode the Seething 600 this year but didnt finish.  Was not as flat as I thought it would be (Norfolk, Suffolk still has some hills!)  The main reason though was lack of sleep the night before (very noisy hotel).

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
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Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2010, 11:09:08 am »
My top ten sleep tips

LEL preparation

This post got recycled as a Arrive magazine article
Audaxing Blog follow @vorsprungbike on

Fidgetbuzz

  • L sp MOON. 1st R sp MARS . At X SO sp STARS
Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2010, 11:12:03 am »
Well this thread asks for tips - so I guess sharing past experience may add something useful. OK - back to 2007 and PBP.
general background - old --- 65 then - can do endurance - 5 London marathons in my 40's in useful times.
had audaxed a bit pre 2007 - longest a flat Mildenhall 300. Decided to give PBP a go to mark the significant point of being a pensioner. Was doing about 4000 miles a year on a made to measure bike ( see Mr Bunbury's tip  - bike must fit you)
So timing of my qualifying rides was
17th march Up the Uts 200
8th april 300 from Ruislip
5th may Severn across 400
26th may beast from the east 600

there were other long rides - including a start at midnight to ride 160 miles to friends - to see how a midnight start went.

i did not like the BftE 600 - it was wet, windy and unpleasant, finishing in about 39 hours and I seriously doubted my ability to do a 1200.
good friends persuaded me that as I was now qualified for PBP -- I would regret it all my life if I did not at least give it a go.
Chose to ride cambrian 600 on 9th June ( which also included my first ever AA points)- to see whether another 600 would make a 1200 seem more possible. It was better - and at the finish when i still questioned how the heck would I now do another 600 straight off -Francis told me - that if I wanted it enough - i just would.

I did want it - so in the end - just have the mental strength and keep pedalling - and you will do it.

A 400 followed a week later by a 600 sounds hard to me - but it must be possible - even if it is not the build up pattern that I would go for.

I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2010, 11:20:28 am »
Don't think of it as 600km.  Think of it as 50km to the next control. 
Oft-said, always true.

We can adapt this to the issue discussed here:
The day after a 300k, d'ya feel able to ride another 50km?

If so, you can probably ride 600k, 1200k ...
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

GrahamG

  • Babies bugger bicycling
Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #62 on: December 06, 2010, 11:21:22 am »
This has been a useful thread, I'm aiming for an SR culminating in the BCM - I've been really down this week after the weather took it's toll (spill on ice at the weekend saw me just give up on any riding!), but now I think I'll just hit the turbo and when that gets too excruciatingly boring, just ride the roads that get gritted.  
Brummie in exile (may it forever be so)

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #63 on: December 06, 2010, 11:35:22 am »
Be aware that many riders, er, that would be me, find a 400 the hardest distance to ride. So unless you're 'feeling strong' I'd leave a couple of weeks between a first 4 & 6 to allow time to recover mentally as well as physically, to 'process' the experience, as it were. I often enjoy a ride more in retrospect than the actualite.  Having said that the dynamics of a 400 and a 600 are completely different. Just don't be surprised if you find your first 400 'hard', and don't let it put you off. HTH...

AndyH

Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2010, 11:48:12 am »
Do the seasoned audaxers on here think that doing a 400kms a week before doing a 600kms is mad?
Possibly. Character building, perhaps, risky definately. If the 400 goes well it will give you a mental boost for the 6, but if it goes badly it will make the 600 a bigger mental mountain to climb, so you need to make sure you are well prepared for the 400. Also assuming this will be your 1st 400 you won't know how long you need to recover.

Not that I am a seasoned audaxer, but my 2 week build up to my (only) 600 was:
Mon - Thursday - 50K commute
Fri - Sat, rest
Sun - 290K (200K audax plus ride there & back)
Mon - Fri - Didn't even think about riding
Sat - Sun - the 600

I think the 5 days off the bike before the event helped.

My tips -
keep eating, & drinking, Zero / nuun tablets work for me in the drink. You will be amazed at how much you can eat.
I've generally stopped using energy gels & drinks, food seems to work.
The only "energy" products I bother with is the stuff with added caffeine for when I feel sleepy.
Make sure you get used to riding in a bunch, given the opportunity it helps to be part of a group.

I found "The British" harder than the 600, Dai. Which was probably because I was under prepared mentally for the British.

Andrew

Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2010, 11:54:24 am »
Be aware that many riders, er, that would be me, find a 400 the hardest distance to ride.

I do too... but I suspect it's psychological and I've put a barrier there! I don't feel I'm quick enough to bank enough time to get a decent sleep AND still have a comfortable amount of time to finish in. So I ride it straight through and maybe 'power nap' once or twice. For some weird and wonderful reason, it just feels like more of an endurance effort than a 600.

Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #66 on: December 06, 2010, 12:07:05 pm »
I rode a 600k this summer, less than a year after riding my first 200k (and never having ridden longer than 200k).

To be completely honest I didn't find it that much harder than riding a 200k - I just kept plodding along and the miles kept creeping past.

Eating and drinking enough was a worry, and to be honest I survived by drinking diluted fresh orange with added salt (plus a poke of chips at the halfway point). Whether you are like this, or have the appetite of a horse you'll need to discover!

I am not very fast - but even so it was more of a mental challenge than a physical one. There were some hard times when my achilles started playing up, I had overslept and was running close to the wire into a ferocious headwind... but still, I felt I finished the 600k feeling better than I have finished a few "fast" 200k rides!

Go for it I say. It was a great adventure.

Nonsteeler

  • If nothing goes wrong, I go wrong.
    • Elsewhere
Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #67 on: December 06, 2010, 12:32:09 pm »
Oh I love this thread, this delicate mixture of bragging and giving advice. Great  :thumbsup:

Take the preparation very serious, training, which is obvious, but also the 'little' things, like fixing puncture or a bent derailer, what luggage you take on board, what you do if a PITA occurs and stays, how do deal with eating, breaks sleep etc. Extensive perpetration will not prepare you for everything but it often can free your mind which helps for not taking the event too serious (which is my advice).  Take the perpetration serious but not the event. It is ok be tense before the 600 but during the event make it as enjoyable as possible by not worrying too much. Shit happens or not, usually sheer luck and good perpetration make the difference.

Have never ridden through the night before so that should be an experience.
Just give it a go, after 12h at work ride another 7 through the darkness. Or start your commute at 3am with an extra loop. It  gives you an idea how you feel under sleep deprivation and isn't so difficult integrate into 'normal' life.


Sadly, melancholy doesn't pay my rent.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #68 on: December 06, 2010, 12:44:17 pm »
Oh I love this thread, this delicate mixture of bragging and giving advice. Great  :thumbsup:

Has anybody said, "It's not that difficult, even I can do itTM M.Volio" yet?

sheer luck and good perpetration makes the difference.

Yep, if you're going to perp, perp proudly, not like a thief in the night.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #69 on: December 06, 2010, 12:57:20 pm »
[William Blake]
Every night and every morn
Some to misery are born,
Every morn and every night
Some are born to sweet delight.

Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.
---------------------------------

There's something of a 400 which spells Endless Night in a way that doesn't happen in a 600...

Billy Weir

Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #70 on: December 06, 2010, 12:58:43 pm »
[William Blake]
Every night and every morn
Some to misery are born,
Every morn and every night
Some are born to sweet delight.

Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.
---------------------------------

There's something of a 400 which spells Endless Night in a way that doesn't happen in a 600...

Some reach the end and feel alright
Whilst others end up feeling shi...

Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #71 on: December 06, 2010, 01:01:17 pm »
The more physically prepared you are the less you'll need to rely on mental strength to get you through.

But even with the best physical preparation you're still going to need to rely on some mental strength to stop you giving up. This is why building up to events is good as it gives you a taste of what lies ahead.

If you get to 350km of a 600km ride and feel like you just can't go on you might just give up.

If you get to 350km of a 400km ride and feel like you just can't go on you may push yourself on since it's only another 50km and it'd be a shame to give up so close. When you do and you start to feel better an hour later and realise it was only a phase you'll remember that for the 600, just in case you feel the same at that same stage.

Now when you get that same feeling of dread 350km into a 600km ride you know you should just ride through it and see how you feel an hour or two later. More than likely you'll be fine and you'll plod on to the finish (probably via another couple of low points along the way...)

As for a 400 with a 600 the following weekends. It's brave if you've never done those distances before, but it's not impossible. Especially since plenty of people have ridden 1000km+ events (imagine doing the 400 then starting a 600 almost straight away), sometimes as their first real distance events (several people did LEL 1400km as their first Audax).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #72 on: December 06, 2010, 01:39:19 pm »
[William Blake]
Every night and every morn
Some to misery are born,
Every morn and every night
Some are born to sweet delight.

Some are born to sweet delight,
Some are born to endless night.
---------------------------------

There's something of a 400 which spells Endless Night in a way that doesn't happen in a 600...

Some reach the end and feel alright
Whilst others end up feeling shi...

I shall be forwarding this to the editor of Arrivee under the heading of "Ode to Himself (McNasty)"!

Billy Weir

Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #73 on: December 06, 2010, 01:44:30 pm »
Quote
The more physically prepared you are the less you'll need to rely on mental strength to get you through.

Addendum: but don't overprepare, otherwise you may lose motivation or your body might rebel.

These things are all about balance.  I've seen many of the great and the good in our activity go through extended periods of down time because it all got just a little too familiar.

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: training tips for 600kms audax events
« Reply #74 on: December 06, 2010, 01:45:52 pm »

Has anybody said, "It's not that difficult, even I can do itTM M.Volio" yet?



It can't be that difficult, I've done it.


 ::-)
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!