Author Topic: Britains Heaviest Man  (Read 4759 times)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2011, 08:41:38 pm »
Wow, such a motivational speech!  ::-)
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Nightfly

Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2011, 04:56:28 am »
Wow, such a motivational speech!  ::-)

Really? Sometimes I even surprise myself  :P  ;).

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2011, 09:50:50 am »
In that case we really need to have another look at "Universal Care".

We don't actually have completely universal care. The are items that are Interventions Not Normally Funded. it isn't a common list across the country, there are variations. Patients can appeal, it is a time consuming and emotional process.

If you didn't want  the health care system to stagnate you'd probably have to remove the right to appeal, and you cannot do that legally, afaik.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2011, 11:13:57 am »
Quote
His PCT should send him a bill for attending to his condition brought on by his ignorant lifestyle choice.

They'll send you one when you fall off your bike without body armour, then, and you'll be fine with that too?

Universal care is an important principle.  It means you even look after the whiney self-indulgent arseholes.  

...


I think "universal care" in this instance has got to be questioned as it clearly hasn't worked. I would withdraw all support for this person except to buy them the strongest BSO on the market and placing it at the foot of their bed. "Continue as you are - you die, or ride the bike and you stand a chance of living. Which is it going to be chubby?"

This has nothing to do with the principle of universal care - and the suggestion that it does shows ignorance.
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LindaG

Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2011, 11:26:55 am »
He won't live long.  His case is so tragic.  Poor sod.  What life is that for a human being?

Another aspect of the USA consumer lifestyle that we've caught on to a few years after them.

The whole thing was started with the Findus Crispy Pancake, IMO.

When you only eat 'real food' you don't get people with morbid obesity.  Start adding addictive fats, sugars, palm oil, refined flour, make it dirt cheap, package it, advertise it to children ...

Then reap what's been sown.  I think this man is a victim of the food industry.

And if you stopped giving free healthcare to people who have played a part in their own condition, you could close all the hospitals and I'd be out of a job.

Clandy

Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2011, 11:47:49 am »
I have very little sympathy for morbidly obese fat people who then complain that 'the government' won't help them. They helped themselves get fat, they can help themselves get thin.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2011, 11:59:21 am »
I know that in the early 90s alcoholics were excluded from liver transplants unless they could show they had been dry for at least four years. On average (at that time, it may be different now) you would be dead within four years of diagnosis if you didn't get a transplant. Strangely, those addicted to other drugs were not excluded.
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2011, 12:01:46 pm »
Quote
His PCT should send him a bill for attending to his condition brought on by his ignorant lifestyle choice.

They'll send you one when you fall off your bike without body armour, then, and you'll be fine with that too?

Universal care is an important principle.  It means you even look after the whiney self-indulgent arseholes.  

...


I think "universal care" in this instance has got to be questioned as it clearly hasn't worked. I would withdraw all support for this person except to buy them the strongest BSO on the market and placing it at the foot of their bed. "Continue as you are - you die, or ride the bike and you stand a chance of living. Which is it going to be chubby?"

This has nothing to do with the principle of universal care - and the suggestion that it does shows ignorance.

Indeed it does. The most exercise that man's body could possibly tolerate would have to be immersed in water.
[Quote/]Adrian, you're living proof that bandwidth is far too cheap.[/Quote]

LindaG

Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2011, 12:44:25 pm »
I know that in the early 90s alcoholics were excluded from liver transplants unless they could show they had been dry for at least four years. On average (at that time, it may be different now) you would be dead within four years of diagnosis if you didn't get a transplant. Strangely, those addicted to other drugs were not excluded.

You still need to be dry before they'll give you a liver transplant.  Not because you don't 'deserve' the liver transplant, but because livers are a scarce resource and they need to get the maximum number of years, from each liver.  

George Best - someone else will have died, from the lack of a transplant liver, while he was drinking himself to death.

This may inform.

Transplanted livers are more susceptible to alchohol damage, than normal livers.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2011, 06:33:04 pm »
I agree absolutely that it makes sense given scarcity of resources. I'm not entirely sure that I wouldn't also say it is fairer, but that's not the point; while there are restrictions care cannot be universal, though it may be as near universal as is practical.

In the case of this 'heaviest man' what is being argued is that he doesn't deserve care, but this is not a criteria. Whether this is best use of available resources may well be relevant - I don't know how limited they would be in this case. And despite my second sentence above, I would be worried if care decisions were taken on the basis of deservingness; I would see that as a step towards a 'one true path' type of society.
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2011, 07:59:19 pm »
I can't see the difference between the people who have been looking after him, giving him the means to eat thousands of calories a day, and the hypothetical idea of giving a suicidal person a bucket of pills. FAIL either way.

Sure, starving the guy doesn't cure the problem, but at least he isn't going to get any fatter while you work on the psychology or whatever the cause of the overeatingmay be.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2011, 11:39:04 pm »
It's on now, so I'm watching it.

It's rather sad.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

LEE

Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2011, 09:35:15 am »
It's amazing how supposedly intelligent and informed people think that extremely obese people should simply stop eating so much and "get on a bike or die".

They quite clearly have a psychological issue rather than just "liking pizzas a bit too much".  Every such documentary I have ever seen has had such people in tears of desperation.  It seems clear that they are trapped.

It's the same with Alcoholism (although most people now recognise that as a disease rather than "liking beer a bit too much").  Do we really think George Best thought it would be a good idea to keep binging when he knew it would kill him?  I've heard him speak many times, he was desperate to quit, he was a tragic individual.

Most animals are programmed to eat as much as they can when food is available, it's brain-stem code.  It's doesn't require a great leap to imagine that this programming could be extreme in some cases, we accept it of other addictions.

I've seen many posts on this forum (quite rightly) giving their support to YACF members with alcohol problems and yet there is still a different attitude when it comes to obesity. 

You can, medically, get through life without booze, you can learn to totally avoid it, but, for the eating-addicted, they need to deal with their issues many times a day.

Try suggesting to a recovering alcoholic that they need to pop into the pub, just for a half, 3 times a day.

Would, I wonder, a recovering alcoholic have more sympathy with someone with such an eating disorder?


For the record, if 1 = Anorexic , 5 = absolutely sensible about food and 10 = Britain's Heaviest Man, I would say I am 6.5.  I can't just rely on my appetite to control my food intake, I always need to monitor/control myself.  I can understand that there are people at 8,9 & 10 on that scale who have a real battle on their hands.

I'm sure there will be some 6s & 7s on this forum, possibly 8s.

Jacomus

  • My favourite gender neutral pronoun is comrade
Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2011, 09:43:39 am »
It's amazing how supposedly intelligent and informed people think that extremely obese people should simply stop eating so much and "get on a bike or die".

They quite clearly have a psychological issue rather than just "liking pizzas a bit too much".  Every such documentary I have ever seen has had such people in tears of desperation.  It seems clear that they are trapped.

It's the same with Alcoholism (although most people now recognise that as a disease rather than "liking beer a bit too much").  Do we really think George Best thought it would be a good idea to keep binging when he knew it would kill him?  I've heard him speak many times, he was desperate to quit, he was a tragic individual.

Most animals are programmed to eat as much as they can when food is available, it's brain-stem code.  It's doesn't require a great leap to imagine that this programming could be extreme in some cases, we accept it of other addictions.

I've seen many posts on this forum (quite rightly) giving their support to YACF members with alcohol problems and yet there is still a different attitude when it comes to obesity. 

You can, medically, get through life without booze, you can learn to totally avoid it, but, for the eating-addicted, they need to deal with their issues many times a day.

Try suggesting to a recovering alcoholic that they need to pop into the pub, just for a half, 3 times a day.

Would, I wonder, a recovering alcoholic have more sympathy with someone with such an eating disorder?


For the record, if 1 = Anorexic , 5 = absolutely sensible about food and 10 = Britain's Heaviest Man, I would say I am 6.5.  I can't just rely on my appetite to control my food intake, I always need to monitor/control myself.  I can understand that there are people at 8,9 & 10 on that scale who have a real battle on their hands.

I'm sure there will be some 6s & 7s on this forum, possibly 8s.

I've been searching for a way to say this, but LEE got there before me.

"The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity." Amelia Earhart

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2011, 10:20:40 am »
Indeed.  I know, of course, that I could be thinner if I got the calorie equations right, but the only way I have ever successfully lost weight is by doing (by most people's standards, although not the standards of many on here) completely ludicrous amounts of exercise.  One of the reasons for this is the calorie equations.  Another is that even I can't eat cream cakes whilst in the gym/pool or riding my bike.  And when I get to ride a couple of hundred miles a week, or swim 6 or 7, or spend 9 or 10 hours in the gym I'm cheerful enough on average that I can manage my over-eating tendencies.  When I am unable to exercise (e.g. when I did my PGCE and was so time-poor that I survived for most of the year on between 3 and 5 hours sleep a night and, to an extent, the last month of being of the bike because of the weather) my weight shoots up because of the calorie in>calorie out, the extra available time for eating and the fact that I'm just more miserable. 

I have no recollection of not being at least overweight and have probably been in the obese range for a couple of decades now.  My appetite doesn't really have an off switch, which is why we don't have sweets/cakes/biscuits/crisps in the house - Dearly_Beloved (who has very different food habits to me) finds it incredibly irritating that he can't have a couple of biscuits, stick the packet in the cupboard and expect to find any still left a week or two later when he fancies another one so it causes much less argument to not have the packet of biscuits in the first place.  It also means that you have to actually go out to a shop in order to impulse eat them. 

One of the things that I think stops me from letting my weight spiral into freak-show documentary proportions is the awareness that beyond a certain point it would actually prevent me from riding/swimming etc. as opposed to just making those things more difficult.  "Calories in less than calories out" might be very simple, but that doesn't make it easy.

Morrisette

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Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2011, 11:07:43 am »
Genetics comes into it, but my theory is that the big thing is family history and how they treat food when you are a child. This wasn't covered in the programme (I don't think - I missed the beginning).

F'rinstance, my family all eat like birds. There is a packet of biscuits in the cupboard at home that has been there for three weeks with two gone from it, plus two boxes of chocolates left over from Christmas. I have never sat and eaten a whole box of chocolates/pack of Jaffa Cakes/whatever. They can be sitting in front of me, I just don't feel I want to do it. It doesn't feel like I'm exercising willpower, it's just not something I do. My brother is exactly the same. This attitude to food comes from how my family ate when I was a child, I'm absolutely sure. We ate whatever we wanted but at set times of the day, and small portions, mini size choccie bars, that kind of thing. I never saw my mum on a 'diet' though she is very small. We just didn't eat very much and still don't. The amounts of food people casually eat (not people who are especially overweight, either) has amazed me in the past. Some people eat CONSTANTLY.
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jogler

  • mojo operandi
Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2011, 11:52:30 am »
This discussion has now touched on a couple of issues that I can relate to.

LEE makes reference to the inability to break a habit that is detrimental to health(terminally so in the case of that IrishBallMagician).I have a habit of eating more than I need to.This is because I cannot cope with being hungry so eat to insure against it occurring.This invariably equates to more cals. in than cals. out.
I also take the view that having given up fags,that's enough sacrifice of things that I enjoyed* & I am doing no more giving-up of things that I enjoy.Life's too short to be too much of a martyr.
I actually coped better with nicotene withdrawal symptons than I do with feeling hungry.The latter make me more grumpy than usual & I become impatient to an aggresive degree.
So I can't diet:won't diet.

Crinkly makes reference to compulsion.My major failing.It's not possible to have a biscuit;only when the packet is empty will I accept that the scoffing will stop.This is why we buy crisps in single bags:mrs. jogler has to hide several other foodstuffs if she wishes them to have a shelf life of more than allittakestoscoffthelot.


I think lifestyle contributes to the problem.Since I became permenantly home based for work my weight has increased & it is more difficult than ever to lose weight.This is because it's too convenient to get to the kitchen,fridge & food cupboards at any moment during the day.Plus I am no longer walking several miles a day around building sites or other people's office buildings.

My attitude is also an obstacle.I have never had so much licence to choose how I spend my time.If I wish I could do a ride of any duration at any time & then work during the hours of darkness to make up for pinching "normal" working hours.I do not do this because I am a lazy git with a fast-developing fair-weather-cyclist attitude.

So,I need to be ejected from the house; chained to my bike in the morning with a couple of snack bars in a jersey pocket:pushed down the road;ride to a meeting  which has tea & cake on the agenda 100km away,give a client 10 mins of my time for a fat fee,use his w.c. & cycle home.
Simples.
*in reality,very few of the coffin nails consumed were really enjoyed.

Thor

  • Super-sonnicus idioticus
Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2011, 12:16:54 pm »
The amounts of food people casually eat (not people who are especially overweight, either) has amazed me in the past. Some people eat CONSTANTLY.

Some people eat rubbish constantly too - I am sometimes shocked at the willingness in my office to scoff Krispy Kreme doughnuts and the like.  Sugar and fat to the max.  You just added 500 calories to your intake for the day.  What are you going to give up to keep the total to the recommended 2000?

Did anyone see Ten Things You Need to Know About Losing Weight? - still available on iPlayer and recommended viewing whether you struggle with your weight or not.

(Consider not reading on if you might watch it)

Overweight actress Debbie Chazen - very brave to participate, I thought - claimed to be one of those people who eat healthily and are nevertheless fat.  She agreed to be monitored and tested to determine whether she has a "slow metabolism".  While the concept of a slow metabolism is not mythical, it was concluded that her metabolism was in fact completely normal and the monitoring showed that she was eating half as much again as she thought she was.

I don't know how representative Debbie is, but I suspect there are a lot of people in the same boat.

Lee makes some good points - we're creatures of habit and changing your eating habits, which must be pretty fundamental, is not something that will come to you easily, or overnight.
It was a day like any other in Ireland, only it wasn't raining

Clandy

Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2011, 12:31:52 pm »
Shouldn't that be 'the recommended 2,500 for a male, and 2,000 for a female'?

Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2011, 12:48:27 pm »
I've just watched the iplayer program, and I think the thing about visceral fat has explained my expanding waistline. I will be using smaller bowls immediately

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #45 on: January 11, 2011, 01:11:06 pm »
the monitoring showed that she was eating half as much again as she thought she was.

I don't know how representative Debbie is, but I suspect there are a lot of people in the same boat.

She's dead representative.  'Food amnesia' is really common, especially in the land of snacks.  Anyone who has had trouble losing weight - get 'em to do a food diary and they'll be stunned by the result. 

Just keeping a log is often enough to help moderate intake. 

Doing it with Google Docs for in-cloud insty-colouring just makes it more fun...  :thumbsup:
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
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Clandy

Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #46 on: January 11, 2011, 01:16:08 pm »
the monitoring showed that she was eating half as much again as she thought she was.

I don't know how representative Debbie is, but I suspect there are a lot of people in the same boat.

She's dead representative.  'Food amnesia' is really common, especially in the land of snacks.  Anyone who has had trouble losing weight - get 'em to do a food diary and they'll be stunned by the result. 

Just keeping a log is often enough to help moderate intake. 

Doing it with Google Docs for in-cloud insty-colouring just makes it more fun...  :thumbsup:

That is how I managed to lose 54lbs in the space of a year and keep it off. Once you're used to weighing your food, totalling calories, it becomes second nature and an easy habit to maintain.

jogler

  • mojo operandi
Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2011, 03:25:02 pm »
In a word then....discipline.
That's me stuffed then.Too much of a loose cannon according to 2 ex-bosses a several ex-clients ::-)

Nightfly

Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2011, 03:34:09 pm »
The amounts of food people casually eat (not people who are especially overweight, either) has amazed me in the past. Some people eat CONSTANTLY.

Some people eat rubbish constantly too - I am sometimes shocked at the willingness in my office to scoff Krispy Kreme doughnuts and the like.  Sugar and fat to the max.  You just added 500 calories to your intake for the day.  What are you going to give up to keep the total to the recommended 2000?

Did anyone see Ten Things You Need to Know About Losing Weight? - still available on iPlayer and recommended viewing whether you struggle with your weight or not.

(Consider not reading on if you might watch it)

Overweight actress Debbie Chazen - very brave to participate, I thought - claimed to be one of those people who eat healthily and are nevertheless fat.  She agreed to be monitored and tested to determine whether she has a "slow metabolism".  While the concept of a slow metabolism is not mythical, it was concluded that her metabolism was in fact completely normal and the monitoring showed that she was eating half as much again as she thought she was.

I don't know how representative Debbie is, but I suspect there are a lot of people in the same boat.

Lee makes some good points - we're creatures of habit and changing your eating habits, which must be pretty fundamental, is not something that will come to you easily, or overnight.

A very full and low in the water boat ..... :o

Clandy

Re: Britains Heaviest Man
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2011, 03:38:19 pm »
In a word then....discipline.
That's me stuffed then.Too much of a loose cannon according to 2 ex-bosses a several ex-clients ::-)

I used this, this, this, and this to do it.