Author Topic: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.  (Read 12955 times)

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #50 on: September 21, 2011, 11:43:38 pm »
How much clen in a steak? About 15ng/g, so about 3.5 ug for an 8 oz steak.
Divide that by the volume of blood and you get 750pg/mL. Or about 15 times the detected amount. Now taking into account clearance rates, it must have been either a rather large steak, or the cow was drugged up until the day it was slaughtered.
Where do you get 15ng/g from?

The reason clenbuterol is banned in animals is that there have been cases of people turning up in hospitals with overdose symptoms and levels up to the 450 ng level, 9000 times more than Clenbutador's 50 pg. Presumably the steak (or liver) eaten in that case must have had a much higher level of contamination.

Slaughterhouse testing is designed to prevent clenbuterol poisoning. How sensitive are the tests? I can't see them being a great deal more sensitive than necessary to prevent poisoning of a small person who was fond of liver, plus a safety margin.

I'd suggest that a sensible threshold would be based on the maximum level of contamination that would pass a slaughterhouse test. That should at least be good for those countries that do have good testing.

David Martin

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #51 on: September 22, 2011, 12:12:13 am »
How much clen in a steak? About 15ng/g, so about 3.5 ug for an 8 oz steak.
Divide that by the volume of blood and you get 750pg/mL. Or about 15 times the detected amount. Now taking into account clearance rates, it must have been either a rather large steak, or the cow was drugged up until the day it was slaughtered.
Where do you get 15ng/g from?
Academic papers looking at Clen accumulation and clearance in beef under certain diets and dosages. Liver is higher, eyeballs are about 100 times higher.
Quote
The reason clenbuterol is banned in animals is that there have been cases of people turning up in hospitals with overdose symptoms and levels up to the 450 ng level, 9000 times more than Clenbutador's 50 pg. Presumably the steak (or liver) eaten in that case must have had a much higher level of contamination.
450ng in what? Blood? I'd suggest those levels were from long term systemic accumulations. 
I was looking at the 'I had one dodgy steak' argument and looking at the likely numbers.Not'I have been eating dodgy steaks all my life.'

If one would expect a slaughterhouse test to be passed by the beef, then Contadors story doesn't add up with the quantities consumed.

[/quote]
Slaughterhouse testing is designed to prevent clenbuterol poisoning. How sensitive are the tests? I can't see them being a great deal more sensitive than necessary to prevent poisoning of a small person who was fond of liver, plus a safety margin.

[/quote]

About 1ng/g in tissue.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes


Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #53 on: September 29, 2011, 12:50:35 am »
450ng in what? Blood? I'd suggest those levels were from long term systemic accumulations. 
I was looking at the 'I had one dodgy steak' argument and looking at the likely numbers.Not'I have been eating dodgy steaks all my life.'
450 ppb in urine.

This was from a case where 60 or 70 people had turned up in hospital with clenbuterol poisoning over a period of a few days. That's one dodgy steak (each), not long term exposure.

I heard the level of testing was about 1 in 400 animals, so there's plenty of scope for the odd dodgy steak to get through. Spanish claims of no failures sounds a bit like Lance to me.


David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #54 on: September 29, 2011, 08:57:07 am »
That fits with a seriously dodgy steak (about 50-70% of the clen in the meat goes straight into urine, about 20% into faeces). Timescale might be a bit short for Bertie though as he claims an overnight (about 10 hour) time between eating and excreting, and the folllowing day test is clean.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2012, 11:56:46 am »
Anyone know when a verdict is expected?  Did I miss it?

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #56 on: January 09, 2012, 01:48:05 pm »
Mid-January, iirc.

Karla

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #57 on: January 09, 2012, 02:02:33 pm »

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2012, 08:32:35 pm »
inrng the Inner Ring
Quote
Spanish paper @elmundo talks of more delay to CAS verdict over Contador... and even taking an appeal to the European Court of Human Rights,
Quote
But right now the CAS is still expected to give its verdict on the Contador case some time next week.
3 hours ago


Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2012, 03:35:31 pm »
I've been catching up.  It seems that Saxo Bank ran their training camp in Israel this winter and went out of their way to win the hearts and minds battle:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/saxo-bank-opens-cycling-school-in-israel

The lead judge on the CAS panel is Israeli..

Apparently the WADA lawyers came close to walking out of the hearing after one of the anti doping experts they had called was not allowed to testify.

Has Bjaarne Riis pulled a blinder or will the expected whitewash leave an even worse taste in the mouth thean a clenbuterol laden steak?

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2012, 08:14:28 pm »
Verdict, acording to me: Guilty
Sentence: For me not to give him any credence ever, he's a cheat who followed the age old ways of outrgae, denial, make up unbelievable and non-evidenced excuse etc to the max.

Cheat Cheat Cheat

Rhys W

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #61 on: January 14, 2012, 09:29:43 am »
I've been catching up.  It seems that Saxo Bank ran their training camp in Israel this winter and went out of their way to win the hearts and minds battle:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/saxo-bank-opens-cycling-school-in-israel

That's a bizarre training camp, even by Bjaarne Riis's standards.

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #62 on: January 16, 2012, 07:32:41 pm »
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-ruling-expected-end-of-january

They've pushed the announcement (of a decision that could have been made a couple of months ago) back in the light of "questions raised in the media surrounding the composition of the arbitration panel".

I suspect it's going to be a whitewash and they are buying time to get their story straight. 

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2012, 04:33:47 pm »
Decision now to be announced 6th Feb.  Apparently.

"What a long, strange trip it's been", Truckin'

Karla

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #64 on: January 30, 2012, 04:51:00 pm »
 :'(

David Martin

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #65 on: January 30, 2012, 05:23:26 pm »
Which year?
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

spesh

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2012, 05:41:14 pm »
Which year?

I probably shouldn't, but...  ;D
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #67 on: February 06, 2012, 11:35:52 am »
Two year ban. Just announced.

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #68 on: February 06, 2012, 11:47:29 am »
How daft that his 2 year ban will end on the 6th August, crazy world that it has taken them nearly 2 years to sort with the 2010 TDF winner being crowned in 2012.


Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #69 on: February 06, 2012, 11:48:15 am »
Verdict, acording to me: Guilty
Sentence: For me not to give him any credence ever, he's a cheat who followed the age old ways of outrgae, denial, make up unbelievable and non-evidenced excuse etc to the max.

Cheat Cheat Cheat

To me, far worse was the way Contador took advantage of A Schleck losing his chain. That's cheating, too.

Looks like Andy will get his just reward, too.
The journey is always more important than the destination

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #70 on: February 06, 2012, 11:51:02 am »
How daft that his 2 year ban will end on the 6th August, crazy world that it has taken them nearly 2 years to sort with the 2010 TDF winner being crowned in 2012.

At least he'll be kept out of this year's Tour. But not, unfortunately, this year's Vuelta.
The journey is always more important than the destination

Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #71 on: February 06, 2012, 11:53:16 am »
Are they oblidged to give the 2010 victory to Andy S or can they just declare no winner? The reason I ask is a friend had a bet on Andy to win and was wondering if he would now get his winnings.
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Karla

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #72 on: February 06, 2012, 11:55:19 am »
So...Bertie is dirty after all.  I never saw that coming.

Still, it's ridiculous that they took this long.  It's given me rather more sympathy for the guy.

Congratulations on your win, Andy!

Bikepacker, see the Cyclingnews article:
Quote
Andy Schleck will become the Tour de France champion and Michele Scarponi is crowned winner of the Giro d'Italia.

David Martin

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #73 on: February 06, 2012, 11:56:03 am »
210? That then makes Wiggin's the highest placed british finisher in the TdF at 3rd, the only podium finisher in british history to have not stepped onto the podium.

..d
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Karla

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Re: Contador to receive one year ban, probably.
« Reply #74 on: February 06, 2012, 11:57:11 am »
David, Wiggins' 4th place was in 2009.