Author Topic: Bye Lance  (Read 286963 times)

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1575 on: 30 January, 2013, 10:49:38 am »
I was thinking that it's more like Sons Of Anarchy...
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1576 on: 30 January, 2013, 11:20:13 am »
I'm still taken with a lot of the ideas surrounding the 'New Pathways in Pro Cycling' conference that was held to coincide with the Worlds in Australia in 2010.

Quote
It is probably no secret that I find the liberal analysis of the current state of sport and sports law deficient in so far as it tends to hark back to a state of affairs, which if they ever existed at all, clearly don’t exist today. But then again one of the things that makes Scandinavia such an interesting place is its tenacious belief in a classical liberal and even a social democratic world view. It is in many senses an island within a neoliberal globe in this respect. Although, sometimes reading the work of my Scandinavian colleagues, I feel the frustration of Sarah Lund in the Danish police show, The Killing, or that of Wallander – the restraints of the kid gloves dressed up as human rights with which they are compelled to treat the bad guys. None of this exists, in contrast, to the more pragmatic and gritty approach of the crew in the French policial Spiral, and its heroine Laure Berthaud, who get to the core of the issue as they bang the heads of the bad guys against the wall.

But back to sport, and or the law and Møller’s book. I am in no doubt that what happened to Michael Rasmussen was a sporting crime of monumental proportions and that in perpetrating this crime the rule book was conveniently thrown out the window. In our report “I Wish I was Twenty One Now – Beyond Doping in the Australian Peloton” (Hardie et al 2010) we included one quote in respect of Rasmussen. The question and the response of the interviewed professional cyclist put into context the gravity of the events that took place in Pau in July 2007:
 
Q: Are you ever amazed that Rasmussen is still alive? I actually think sometimes, I really seriously am amazed that he hasn’t committed suicide.
 
A: Yeah, that was I think an oversight on Rabobank’s point of view, I don’t know. I was there and I’m part of that team and I don’t know enough about that. But I think it was an oversight on them when they kicked him out of the tour, to leave him alone that night. They put him in a hotel room 100km up the road or something, with that, driven there by a PR lady or something. Really, somebody should have been on suicide watch.
 
Q: Well, I’m still amazed about it.
 
A: Taking the Holy Grail away from somebody.

http://www.newcyclingpathway.com/

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1577 on: 30 January, 2013, 02:23:02 pm »
Quote
Mr McQuaid concluded:  “I would therefore urge the President of WADA one more time to try to set his personal vendetta and crusade against cycling aside and to support the UCI in doing what is right for cycling. Our aims are the same: to rid cycling and indeed all sports of the scourge of doping.”
Fat Pat either can't see the difference between himself & cycling, or is deliberately obfuscating.

Fahey isn't on a crusade against cycling: he's on a crusade against McQuaid, Verbruggen & the rest of the corrupt bastards at the top of the UCI.
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

slope

  • Inclined to distraction
    • Current pedalable joys
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1578 on: 30 January, 2013, 04:57:58 pm »

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1579 on: 30 January, 2013, 05:01:28 pm »
I must be going soft - I actually felt a wee twinge of sympathy for Lance when reading that. But only a twinge. And probably only because even he's turning against the UCI now.

I particularly enjoyed the bit where he says everyone should get the same punishment. Lolz.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1580 on: 30 January, 2013, 05:46:25 pm »
Perhaps at last Tewdric's stance has started to be noticed, here's hoping.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1581 on: 30 January, 2013, 06:25:31 pm »
And a ban for Frank S, so no Andy and Frank act at TDF this year.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/frank-schleck-given-one-year-doping-ban

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1582 on: 30 January, 2013, 06:44:03 pm »
Most of that article seems to be talking about cooperation with the UCI on doping controls.

How long before we see Lance on Oprah?

Did you just go back and edit that?  If not, uncannily well anticipated..

Who's going to win the 3.15 at Newmarket on Saturday by the way?  ;D

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1583 on: 30 January, 2013, 06:47:04 pm »
Funnily enough, I'm quite surprised I ever said that, because in recent months I never thought Armstrong would confess. Now that he has, it seems obvious that he had to.

I think I'm just fickle  ;D

Andrew

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1584 on: 30 January, 2013, 07:48:03 pm »
I must be going soft - I actually felt a wee twinge of sympathy for Lance when reading that. But only a twinge. And probably only because even he's turning against the UCI now.

You've fallen for his cunning plan. The man is a schemer.  Suspect everything he says of agenda. If he perceives mileage in slagging  UCI and McQuaid (and lets face it, that's safe ground, a sure fire winner even) then that's exactly what he'll do. 

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1585 on: 31 January, 2013, 10:11:39 am »
Don't worry, I'm not falling for it. It only took a moment to remember all the other stuff - all the stuff that he conveniently forgot to mention in this or the Oprah interviews - for any twinges of sympathy to pass.

I've never wanted to see him made a scapegoat for all the ills of the sport, but he clearly deserves much greater punishment than most other offenders. The real target, though, and the real problem for the sport as it stands now, is the UCI.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

LEE

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1586 on: 01 February, 2013, 09:41:38 am »
"We hear a lot about how many people he's let down but very little about all the liars he's inspired" - Charlie Brooker.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1587 on: 01 February, 2013, 11:05:04 am »
I must be going soft - I actually felt a wee twinge of sympathy for Lance when reading that. But only a twinge. And probably only because even he's turning against the UCI now.

I particularly enjoyed the bit where he says everyone should get the same punishment. Lolz.

d.

I think that what is being overlooked (at least by LA supporters, of whom there are a few in my club) is what makes his actions different to the others. In a way it is not about the fact that he won a TdF doped. It is not even about his winning seven on the trot doped (although the claim to have done what no-one else has doesn't help his case). The difference between LA and, at least as far as I can see, all the others is that no-one else has destroyed his friends, associates and partners to the same extent by attacking them and lying in order to achieve his goal. No-one else has lied under oath to collect colossal sums of money. No-one else has achieved his ruthless nastiness. That's why his punishment deserves to be more severe - morally the crime is much greater. Talking about being a scapegoat is utter rubbish and if he doesn't see the enormity of what he has done then he doesn't deserve to return to any form of competition (or civilised life either).

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1588 on: 01 February, 2013, 11:18:22 am »
Perhaps because no-one else has been in the same position in the first place.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1589 on: 01 February, 2013, 11:47:08 am »
The reasons are spelled out quite clearly and in a lot of detail in the USADA's reasoned decision (and Tyler's book).

Maybe Lance should try reading them.  ;D

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1590 on: 01 February, 2013, 11:49:35 am »
And now Rasmussen admits doping:

Ooops!  text deleted as did not spot 'chicken thread'

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1591 on: 01 February, 2013, 02:33:22 pm »
Perhaps because no-one else has been in the same position in the first place.

Well, others have won races before, others have doped before, others have done both, others have done neither. Everyone has started in the same position (on the start line if you like). So is it his ruthlessness (and all that goes with it) that puts him in his position (first  :demon:) or is it his first places that make him so ruthless? A bit like saying speeding 1mph over the limit is the same offence as speeding 50mph over the limit and ploughing through a crowd of innocent people while you do it (and then saying "everyone goes too fast, what have I done that the others haven't?")

It was interesting to see the list of substances and the period that Rasmussen is talking about. Not a lot different to LA, but I am not sure that he has run roughshod over anyone doing it, not lied in court to make his millions. LA would reply that Rasmussen hasn't got the balls or the ability to do what he did but I think I know which one I would prefer as a friend.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1592 on: 01 February, 2013, 02:44:29 pm »
I think a good scene in 'Lance!' the musical would be where Nike, Goddess of Victory, shackles Lance with the first Livestrong bracelet. From then on only Victory is acceptable. That was in 2004, so he'd already notched up 4 victories.

I'm racking my brains to remember what the first coloured wristbands were, was the bullying one before that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livestrong_wristband

fuzzy

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1593 on: 01 February, 2013, 03:34:03 pm »
According to a link from your link-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gel_bracelet#Charity_awareness_wristbands

LiveStrong was the first charidee band.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1594 on: 01 February, 2013, 05:01:09 pm »
It's worth dismantling the Lance legend. It was after the success of the Livestrong bracelet that I grew impatient with The Tour becoming about illness. The explosion of the gel band craze meant that everyone was expected to wear their heart on their sleeve, all the time, and not just a Poppy in November. It was Nike's idea apparently.

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1595 on: 03 February, 2013, 01:29:51 pm »
Sorry to drag this thread on but Private Eye has a good cartoon!

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1596 on: 04 February, 2013, 05:26:24 pm »
Sorry to drag this thread on but Private Eye has a good cartoon!


I liked that  ;D
The dog did nothing in the night-time - that was the curious incident..........

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1597 on: 06 February, 2013, 01:33:45 pm »
Wheels within wheels...

Yesterday, Andre Birotte, the SoCal US Attorney, stated that the federal investigation into Lance Armstrong which was deep-sixed* by him last year wouldn't be re-opened.

According to ABC news, quoting an anonymous government source, the feds are investigating Armstrong - for obstruction, witness tampering and intimidation. It appears that another department within the FBI do not share Birotte's view.  :demon:

"Birotte does not speak for the federal government as a whole, " said the source.

And in other news, SCA Promotions have confirmed that they will now be siccing the lawyers on Armstrong...

See: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13876/Report-Armstrong-under-federal-investigation-for-obstruction-witness-tampering-and-intimidation.aspx

* As those with long enough memories know, Birotte chose the eve of the SuperBowl weekend to make the announcement, and gave no reasons for stopping the investigation. Reportedly, the investigating team working under Jeff Novitsky had a mere 15 minutes' notice of Birotte's decision.
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1598 on: 13 February, 2013, 10:11:45 am »
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Bye Lance
« Reply #1599 on: 13 February, 2013, 10:27:20 am »
Events of last few days:

Armstrong claims to be clean during 09/10 come back
Ashenden (bio passport panel member at the time) says Armstrongs Bio passport not examined
UCI says yes it was and releases anonymous code for Armstrong
Ashenden compares codes with the ones he analysed as part of Passport team and discovers that Armstrongs profiles were not examined after Spring 2009 (ie. not at all during or after 09 and 10 tours).
UCI say that is because the 'passport software didn't flag it up'

Ashenden retorts with this:


http://www.twitlonger.com/show/l1a43r

"Latest press release from Ashenden issued a few hours ago

The President of the International Cycling Union Pat McQuaid has been deceitful and deliberately misled the public and media about Lance Armstrong’s suspicious blood values during his comeback in 2009 and 2010.
During the last 24 hours the UCI have been forced to admit that they never sent Armstrong’s suspicious blood values to their expert panel for scrutiny. This admission flatly contradicts an interview Pat McQuaid gave to the website Velonews five days ago, in which he gave assurances that all of Armstrong’s blood values had been reviewed by the experts and found to be normal.
Today the UCI sought to dodge accountability by putting forward the limp excuse that Armstrong’s profile had not been shared with the experts because it was not flagged by the passport software. The UCI also sought to shift responsibility by claiming that the decision on which passports to share with experts were made by the Lausanne laboratory, not the UCI. However, Pat McQuaid has previously stated that the UCI do themselves also examine the raw data from passports (for example in Pat McQuaid’s Open Letter to cyclists on 17 May 2011). The UCI have also repeatedly claimed to target test their riders based on information gleaned directly from their blood profiles. Therefore, because the UCI inspects the raw data themselves, and because they use that information to conduct targeted testing, it is simply untenable to believe that the UCI did not examine the passport profile of the podium finishers from the 2009 Tour de France.
If the UCI failed to examine Armstrong’s raw data when he placed third at the 2009 Tour de France, the UCI were derelict in their obligations to faithfully run the passport on behalf of the riders, teams and race organisers who contribute 85% of the costs of running the passport program. Those stakeholders deserve to know that their program is being run by competent and diligent managers.
If on the other hand the UCI did examine Armstrong’s raw data but failed to recognise that flat line blood values in tandem with suppressed bone marrow activity in the third place getter of a major Tour was consistent with the possible use of blood transfusion, they have proven themselves to be biologically illiterate. This immediately puts into question the veracity of the UCI’s repeated statements that their interpretation of the peleton’s blood values indicates a decrease in the extent of doping since 2008. There could be fifty cyclists doping"