Author Topic: Jamie's Dream School  (Read 7581 times)

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Jamie's Dream School
« on: March 03, 2011, 05:27:22 pm »
Jamie's Dream School - 4oD - Channel 4

My daughter drew my attention to this.

Is this Car Crash TV? Actually, no. I liked the idea and I also liked the way that Jamie Oliver's hand-picked experts struggled to teach a group of 16 year olds whose GCSE results were way below what the government would like them to be.

It also confirmed everything I've always thought about David Starkie.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

LEE

Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2011, 05:34:26 pm »
David Starkie was a disgrace and should be ashamed.


clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2011, 08:18:18 pm »
David Starkie has always been a disgrace and should be ashamed.
Getting there...

Speshact

  • Charlie
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2011, 08:35:47 pm »
I'm doing a project at the moment which brings me into contact with similar pupils. I have to draw upon all my experience from street performing and the alternative comedy circuit plus quite a lot of experience in teaching cycling to the full gamut of kids.  It's incredibly challenging and you have to work hard to achieve engagement and, through that, attitude change and learning.

I don't know what preparation and briefing the 'teachers' had but it looked to me as though they were thrown in at the deep end. Unfair on them and unfair on the kids.

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2011, 08:52:11 pm »
With the attitude that Starkie took, no amount of preparation would have made him suitable.

To be honest, if those kids were all that difficult, I didn't think the programme showed it. They were wayward but none of them seemed to be especially hostile. I doubt that anyone seriously disruptive would have got onto the programme.

From what we saw, the graffiti artist (Henry?) was probably the hardest nut to crack because he came from a very well-to-do family and had three siblings who were successful. To be honest, I'd have loved to have been let loose in there with a dozen chess sets.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Riggers

  • Mine's a pipe, er… pint!
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2011, 11:13:18 am »
<Baggers at the doctors>

"Well, to be honest, this is outside my field of expertise, and you say it was a group of schoolchildren who inserted two Queens, a Rook, and four Pawns up your rectum, with "Now that's checkmate innit!?", but on the whole, er, no pun intended, you feel the classroom lesson was a success?"
Certainly never seen cycling south of Sussex

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2011, 11:26:29 am »
From the limited amount we saw on the screen, I taught much tougher kids than these between 1975 and 1981, and plenty of their younger siblings from 1981 to 1986. The criminally disruptive would not have been allowed on the programme. I had been teaching for 3 weeks when we had a kid taken to hospital for stitches because another had hit him on the head with a machete. Fortunately they were not in my care at the time!

The great thing about chess is that you have to do a minimum of explaining to do before getting them started, and as all of the "teachers" in that programme observed, one thing these kids aren't that good at as a group is listening. The Starkie-style lesson, which only works if you've got their attention, was doomed to failure in that context - even more so when being delivered by a pompous and unsympathetic twat like Starkie. You've got to get them doing stuff, once you've got them playing only so much as a game involving just pawns, the teacher is no longer the centre of attention. Chess also takes advantage of the competitive nature of pretty well all kids.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Riggers

  • Mine's a pipe, er… pint!
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2011, 11:35:31 am »
I'm with you Baggers my old mucker. My wife has been teaching for nearly thirty years at the challenging (yet rewarding) shitty-end of the education stick.

I thought the lad, insulted by Starkie, restrained himself very well.

Ahem: 1. e4 e5  2. Nf3 Nc6  3. Bb5. If you don't move in 5 seconds I'll 'huff' you.
Certainly never seen cycling south of Sussex

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2011, 11:38:51 am »
I'm with you Baggers my old mucker. My wife has been teaching for nearly thirty years at the challenging (yet rewarding) shitty-end of the education stick.

I thought the lad, insulted by Starkie, restrained himself very well.

Ahem: 1. e4 e5  2. Nf3 Nc6  3. Bb5. If you don't move in 5 seconds I'll 'huff' you.

Aha! Ruy Lopez!

3... a6.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2011, 11:43:42 am »
No one is a Bad Kid.  From what I have read, they are quite similar to the young people I used to do youth work with, many of whom had not been in school for a while, or were at risk of exclusion.  Just need to get their interest, whether that's decorating the room (a couple went on to be painters, as it happens), or making & flying kites, which they loved, or putting a show together (we never got to a performance, but it didn't matter), or getting their bikes sorted so they could ride...

Chess actually went down well with many of them, and there were some quite talented players among them.

I learned quite quickly not to go in with a set idea of what should be happening.  Just the broad framework within which it needed to take place (safe environment etc).
Getting there...

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2011, 11:49:20 am »
Just need to get their interest, whether that's decorating the room (a couple went on to be painters, as it happens)

About 10 years ago we had our extension built (where you slept when you visited us, Clarion). One of the guys to give us estimates was a former pupil, although I didn't recognise him until he recognised me and told me who he was.

He clearly had a rather jaundiced view of his alma mater and one of his comments was rather telling: "Perhaps it didn't occur to anyone that not all of us wanted to work in the construction industry?"

Not everyone did .
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2011, 02:06:31 pm »
I'm just watching it now. Starkie is a cock of the highest order. I would have punched the twat when I was 16...  Probably still would!! The knob.
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Wowbagger

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    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2011, 08:21:01 pm »

    YouTube
        - Kanal von DreamSchool
 


I just watched Rolf Harris's art lesson in full. Total respect!
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

LEE

Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2011, 09:11:08 pm »
David Starkie was a disgrace and should be ashamed.



And thank god it was televised because it was immediately apparent that everyone's first reaction was to believe Starkie's explanation that the kid started the petty insults.

Kudos to the young lad for being the more dignified one, although he did use a wonderful tactic of mentioning what he didn't mention -
Quote
"I didn't mention that you are only about 4 feet tall did I?"...
or words to that effect, excellent

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2011, 09:49:47 pm »
I'm quite looking forward to Starkie's explanation of it all. There was a bit of it in the programme: must have been the kids at fault, I'm the Great David Starkie and I'm not prepared to waste my valuable time on this bunch of failures any more.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Rig of Jarkness

  • An Englishman abroad
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2011, 09:54:02 pm »
Your homework for tonight is to write out 100 times the line "I must spell David Starkey's name correctly"  ;)

The trouble with these kids is that they think that they deserve to be served education much as a diner in a restaurant.  If they don't like the food it's the chef's problem not theirs.  
Aero but not dynamic

Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2011, 10:02:46 pm »
Rolf Harris, a true legend :thumbsup:

The guy that called the kid fat could have done with a punch, but its the problem with some people like him. He knows too much about things, but people skills are lacking. Or at least people skills when people dont just sit and listen.


Don't question. It makes people angry.

Wowbagger

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    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2011, 10:03:07 pm »
Your homework for tonight is to write out 100 times the line "I must spell David Starkey's name correctly"  ;)

The trouble with these kids is that they think that they deserve to be served education much as a diner in a restaurant.  If they don't like the food it's the chef's problem not theirs.  

Up to a point that's true, but take a look at how Rolf Harris dealt with them. Very sympathetic and good results. Starkie(y) is just totally unsuitable for that sort of work. What they don't deserve is to be roundly insulted by someone they've only just met. If you haven't seen the programme, take a look. DS's approach would have been embarrassingly bad if it wasn't so entirely predictable.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2011, 10:42:29 pm »

    YouTube
        - Kanal von DreamSchool
  


I just watched Rolf Harris's art lesson in full. Total respect!

Really enjoyed that  :) He's so damn good, Rolf.


Rig of Jarkness

  • An Englishman abroad
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2011, 08:54:27 am »
Your homework for tonight is to write out 100 times the line "I must spell David Starkey's name correctly"  ;)

The trouble with these kids is that they think that they deserve to be served education much as a diner in a restaurant.  If they don't like the food it's the chef's problem not theirs.  

Up to a point that's true, but take a look at how Rolf Harris dealt with them. Very sympathetic and good results. Starkie(y) is just totally unsuitable for that sort of work. What they don't deserve is to be roundly insulted by someone they've only just met. If you haven't seen the programme, take a look. DS's approach would have been embarrassingly bad if it wasn't so entirely predictable.

I completely agree with what you are saying about Starkey.   I don't like him any more than you do, and I have to admit that I rather enjoyed watching him fail dismally.  But it is a bit of a set up isn't it, I mean its clear that the 'teachers' were inadequately prepared - thrown in at the deep end as has already been said - and the students must  surely be tempted to play up more/make a bigger deal of things in order to get more coverage of themselves on telly.
Aero but not dynamic

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2011, 01:46:26 pm »
Robert Winstone and Rolf Harris were very well prepared.

It looked to me as though Starkey had a preconceived idea about teaching these kids when he'd probably never dealt with anyone like that in his entire career. He had the source materials but was totally lacking in the necessary skills to put his stuff across. Mind you, I think a cerebral, non-practical subject like history must be one of the hardest to "sell" to that sort of child. None of that mattered, though, when he exhibited the attitude he did.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2011, 02:27:07 pm »
If they were all inspirational and successful in doing the teaching it wouldn't have made for good TV or been much of a talking point.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2011, 02:29:20 pm »
Agreed. I'd like to think that a programme like this would actually improve the viewing public's attitude towards teachers and the bloody difficult job that many of them do.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2011, 02:35:06 pm »
I agree. But with the choice of kids,I don't think that's going to happen as people will say "well, they're difficult kids, aren't they".
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Wowbagger

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    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Jamie's Dream School
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2011, 02:45:17 pm »
All classes contain difficult kids. It's my belief that the attitude of kids like this is largely fostered in primary schools where the classes are simply too big. If you want to keep a mixed ability group working properly throughout a school day then I reckon a maximum class size of 20 is required.

It's pretty much true that in teaching, 90% of your time is spent on 10% of the kids. They are the 3 kids in a class of 30 that don't / can't concentrate on the work without constant attention and play up as a result. There's probably a similar number of kids who can't /  won't concentrate but don't play up so tend not to get noticed.

I look back very fondly on the two weeks in my time in a primary school when about half the class were absent for a fortnight during an epidemic of snottiness and I only had to deal with about 16 kids. Every child was concentrating the whole time, including the "difficult" ones, because they had my attention whenever they needed it. I had the time to mark their work whilst they were standing beside me (marking in a primary school is mostly a waste of time unless you can explain at the time what the child could have done to improve) and that meant that I didn't have to take a pile of books home to mark. That's how it should be. Employ enough teachers in primary schools and you would turn out well-rounded, well-educated stable kids who wanted to learn. I think the large rump of 16-year-olds that this programme is about simply wouldn't exist.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.