Author Topic: Random audax questions  (Read 178607 times)

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1200 on: December 31, 2018, 11:28:20 am »
Ah, new perm org syndrome.  your perms have to be validated by the permsec. you submit them for validation by post.

This was my initial thought, but it doesn't really add up - this is what it says in the Notes For Organisers document that the PermSec sends out:

"Start / Finish list
There is a Start / Finish list on your organiser page..."

No, there isn't. It's not just that I can't edit the list, there is no list at all - or at least no link to the list. It makes no sense to me that an org wouldn't be able to see the start/finish list for their own event and sounds more like the result of a glitch in the system than nannying of a new org.

"Completed brevet cards
Brevet cards should be returned by entrants to be received by you within 14 days of the event.
When brevet cards are returned to you check that:
...
Then add the event date to the on-line Start / Finish list and click on “Update”. This will automatically
send the details to the Permanents Secretary as a provisional validation"

Can't add details to a non-existent list, can I?

I understand the principle that new perm organisers may be regarded as needing a bit of supervision (even if they have previously organised calendar events) and that cards should be sent off for validation, but I'm allowed to add entrants and results for my calendar event so why not my perm? So far, all the entrants I've had have been via paypal so should be added to the start list automatically, but what happens if I get a postal entry? Should I forward the entry form to PermSec so he can enter the details manually himself? That's insane. If he wants to make unnecessary extra work for himself, that's his prerogative but I don't get it.

Anyway, I sent off a couple of cards for validation at the start of December and emailed PermSec to ask for clarification on this but have yet to receive a response - and I can't see the results online so he hasn't entered them himself. I'm sure it's just a case that he's busy with other things and may have a backlog of cards to process but it's a bit frustrating.

Is this a typical experience for a new perm organiser? Any other new perm organisers unable to see their start/finish list?

ETA: I've checked with the riders and at least one of them has had his validated card returned, which is good, but the results are not online.

ETA2: It also looks like the results from the 2017 edition of my calendar event have been scrubbed from the system as well. I no longer have a 'View results' link on my organiser page, just a 'View finish list' link, which takes me to an empty page. And the event doesn't appear in the full list of 2017 results. This is mildly infuriating.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1201 on: December 31, 2018, 05:54:38 pm »
Does this list your finishers?

http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2018/events/?Type=Permanent&Combined=false

(adjust for 2017 if required!)

(my experience is that perms use a totally different system to calendar events - best not to assume otherwise!)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1202 on: January 01, 2019, 10:31:56 am »
"Start / Finish list
There is a Start / Finish list on your organiser page..."

No, there isn't. It's not just that I can't edit the list, there is no list at all - or at least no link to the list. It makes no sense to me that an org wouldn't be able to see the start/finish list for their own event and sounds more like the result of a glitch in the system than nannying of a new org.

Having logged in and gone to 'Organisers' in the blue sidebar you don't see your Permanent(s) listed?

"This is a complex subject, with a need for more than one highlighter pen."

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1203 on: January 01, 2019, 11:10:01 am »
Having logged in and gone to 'Organisers' in the blue sidebar you don't see your Permanent(s) listed?



I can see my permanent listed but the ‘Update rider list’ button is missing.

It could be a new organiser thing as Manotea suggests but I’m awaiting clarification from the permsec on this.


Regarding the missing calendar event results, it has been pointed out to me that they aren’t kept forever on your organiser!s page but they are still visible in the general results listings. (This I find slightly puzzling because I would have assumed the results were drawn from the same database as the organiser’s finishers list.)

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1204 on: January 01, 2019, 12:24:04 pm »
It could be a new organiser thing as Manotea suggests but I’m awaiting clarification from the permsec on this.

No I think it must be a glitch.  What is the Event Number of your Permanent?

Results are (currently) stored in a separate table from the Start/Finish lists.  The thinking was that AUK are only interested in the records of successful participants, and all others are discarded.  That thinking has changed somewhat in the last 2 or 3 years, and there is now more interest - even if only for statistical purposes - in all entrants successful or not.  So yes, it would make more sense in future to use one table for both purposes.  But that's rather a big structural change to undertake when the website has a limited future.
"This is a complex subject, with a need for more than one highlighter pen."

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1205 on: January 01, 2019, 01:03:01 pm »
No I think it must be a glitch.  What is the Event Number of your Permanent?

DK01

Quote
But that's rather a big structural change to undertake when the website has a limited future.

Indeed.

Anyway, I have kept my own records of finishers on my event so it’s academic.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1206 on: January 01, 2019, 01:50:38 pm »
I was wrong, visibility of the list is an option settable by John.  I've made yours visible.  Simply adding a Date Ridden to any line in the list makes it 'Provisional'** and passes it on to John for rubber-stamping.

** Provisional results are immediately visible publicly but not fully integrated (points totals etc) until the next day.
"This is a complex subject, with a need for more than one highlighter pen."

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1207 on: January 01, 2019, 06:56:31 pm »
I was wrong, visibility of the list is an option settable by John.  I've made yours visible.  Simply adding a Date Ridden to any line in the list makes it 'Provisional'** and passes it on to John for rubber-stamping.

** Provisional results are immediately visible publicly but not fully integrated (points totals etc) until the next day.
What is John checking before "rubber-stamping" the rides? (By which I really mean - what can he see to check?? Should one still post completed cards to him?)

I've never used this feature - I've followed instructions received, which led me to do everything by paper+royal_mail!  (we're only talking about tiny numbers of rides here, I don't really figure in the grand scheme of things :) )
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1208 on: January 02, 2019, 11:21:51 am »
John supplies 'trusted' organisers with a batch of validation stickers, without which the brevet card is not validated.  So if you don't have the stickers (and they are dated for year) you have to send the cards in.
"This is a complex subject, with a need for more than one highlighter pen."

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1209 on: January 02, 2019, 12:08:30 pm »
I was wrong, visibility of the list is an option settable by John.  I've made yours visible.

Thank you, and thanks for taking the time to look into it.

I have no problem with sending the cards back to John for validation (same as for calendar events - makes sense to have some level of supervision for new organisers), it's just the not being able to see the rider list online that was baffling me.

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1210 on: January 06, 2019, 06:37:28 pm »
appologies if this has been asked before, but regarding Audax route sheets etc ( its been a few years since I last did a 200k) do many folks still use the printed paper sheet on the ride, or have most now gone over to Garmin / download stuff?

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1211 on: January 06, 2019, 06:57:13 pm »
appologies if this has been asked before, but regarding Audax route sheets etc ( its been a few years since I last did a 200k) do many folks still use the printed paper sheet on the ride, or have most now gone over to Garmin / download stuff?
I use both, garmin gpx route and the printed route sheet..

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1212 on: January 06, 2019, 07:03:32 pm »
I use both on all rides now, but there are still some who only use routesheets.

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1213 on: January 06, 2019, 07:08:07 pm »
I use both on all rides now, but there are still some who only use routesheets.

So am I right in thinking the sheet is a 'backup' , I mean if you went out without the garmin, would you feel 'ill prepared / naked'

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1214 on: January 06, 2019, 07:29:22 pm »
I think that depends very much on you. You will be riding, you will have to follow the route somehow. If you're not used to a GPS, then try following the route sheet, as that's presumably what you did in the past. I find a GPS easier to follow but it doesn't seem worth buying one specially for what might be a one-off event. OTOH, if you use a GPS anyway, it would be counter-intuitive at best not to use it for an audax too.
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1215 on: January 06, 2019, 07:39:37 pm »
I ride against my GPS and I'll have a routesheet as a backup but it'll be stuffed away in a bag rather than on the bars all the time. Only once I've needed it (when I hadn't properly charged my GPS and wasn't carrying a powerpack).

Actually, twice, I also got to the start of a ride and found I only had the GPS track for the second loop, so did the first loop from routesheet. I don't feel fazed by it at all because I used routesheets for a few years of Audaxing before getting a GPS so I'm familiar with them.

A good memory helps, I can pick up a routesheet at pretty much any point in a ride and know where I am on it based on the recent turns/etc. I can judge distances/time reasonably well too so not having an odometer won't faze me.

The most annoying thing about GPS packing up (for whatever reason) is not collecting that precious data.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1216 on: January 06, 2019, 07:52:37 pm »
I use both on all rides now, but there are still some who only use routesheets.

So am I right in thinking the sheet is a 'backup' , I mean if you went out without the garmin, would you feel 'ill prepared / naked'
No, the backup is pages from a road atlas. I was, and would be, happy with just the route sheet.

During the day I like to use the route sheet to see the distance to the next instruction ( and I can relax if I know it is a T-junction in 15km.) The Garmin is just to confirm I am still on the route and helps to understand complex junctions.

After dark I use the Garmin more to avoid the faff of headtorches and lights to read the routesheet.

telstarbox

  • Loving the lanes
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1217 on: January 14, 2019, 12:19:29 pm »
Just flicking through the latest event results and saw that some people have a "20xxx" membership number - does that mean more than 1,000 people joined AUK as members during 2018?
2017 - R500 ✅ | 2018 - R1000 ✅ | 2019 - ?

bhoot

  • MemSec (ex-Mrs RRtY)
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1218 on: January 14, 2019, 06:41:14 pm »
Just flicking through the latest event results and saw that some people have a "20xxx" membership number - does that mean more than 1,000 people joined AUK as members during 2018?
And expect to see 21xxx very soon in the results, as we passed that number not long after new year.
There were around 1300 new joiners in calendar year 2018. However we do experience a significant turnover in membership every year. We have around 1400 lapsed members right now (ie those whose membership expired on 31/12/18). I expect a fair number of them to renew still - I think some don't remember until they try to enter an event and realise they can't - but quite a lot won't.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #1219 on: January 14, 2019, 06:46:57 pm »
Coo! Won't be long until a new member's Membership Number is ten times mine!