Author Topic: Random audax questions  (Read 223166 times)

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #200 on: October 25, 2011, 12:19:06 pm »
A question about ECE's..........

If you ride an ECE to/from a 200k calender event and complete the calender event but fail to finish the ECE. You obviously don't get points for the ECE but do you still get the points for the calender event?

I ask because I was discussing this with a fellow rider on a recent Audax (one that I'd ECE'd) and he was sure that you would forefit the calender event points too as you had not completed what you set out to do. i.e. no different to riding a 300k event and packing at 250k. 
Eddington: 110 Miles

mattc

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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #201 on: October 25, 2011, 12:34:37 pm »
I ask because I was discussing this with a fellow rider on a recent Audax (one that I'd ECE'd) and he was sure that you would forefit the calender event points too as you had not completed what you set out to do. i.e. no different to riding a 300k event and packing at 250k.
It seems very reasonable to draw that conclusion, but in fact I am 95% sure that you would not forfeit the calendar event.
(Of course your audacious ethics might compel you to contact the org and have your finish withdrawn ... !)

If you search the ECE threads you'll find this discussed before. Might take you a while, I admit. I think the reasons are mainly bureaucratic, and noone cares enough to change it! (Just MHO)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #202 on: October 25, 2011, 01:34:53 pm »
A question about ECE's. If you ride an ECE to/from a 200k calendar event and complete the calendar event but fail to finish the ECE. You obviously don't get points for the ECE but do you still get the points for the calendar event?

Martin Malins answered this one on the original ECE thread:

Quote
If I enter say the BCM600+ECE100, ride the BCM then decide to sack off the ECE part of the ride, would/should the BCM then be invalidated removed when I don't submit my ECE brevet?

I believe this was suggested at the committee stage and fortunately discounted. Apart from being jolly harsh and also quite likely to put people off ECEs, it would be impossible to police: the calendar card goes off for validation anyway.

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #203 on: October 25, 2011, 02:29:02 pm »
Ta for the replies, I thought that would be the case, but can also see the POV that you should do what you set out to do.

Hopefully this will be academic anyway as I hope not to be in that situation - but you never know!

Cheers

P
Eddington: 110 Miles

Lovely Horse

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #204 on: October 28, 2011, 12:06:36 pm »
If I remember, the old AUK website would allow you to download the calendar as an excel file (or at least in a format that allowed you to import into excel).  I can't see that useful functionality on the new website (I would use it to keep track of rides and print address labels etc).

Has this ability to download in a handy format been removed?

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #205 on: October 28, 2011, 01:35:21 pm »
It would appear that it has.  You could email Pete Coates to see if it can be reinstated.  He's very amenable, though I have no idea how difficult that might be.

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #206 on: November 04, 2011, 07:31:09 pm »
What is a WARTY? I understand that the RTY probably means Round The Year, but WA?
Sherwood CC - Squadra Giallo Verde


mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #207 on: November 04, 2011, 07:50:14 pm »
It's nothing to do with Audax - except that the name is an homage to RRTY.

Read about 'em here:

http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13191.0
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #208 on: November 04, 2011, 08:01:20 pm »
Anyone understand why it is that for new Perms we've got to make sure that every control is useable 24hrs a day? To me that means that only cash machines and 24hr garages are possible controls.
Info controls are also used on Perms and are generally 'open' 24 hours a day. They are also very flexible in terms of location. In my limited experience, the org will ask a different info question at the same location for each entrant on a Perm.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #209 on: November 09, 2011, 01:45:22 pm »
on my renewal notice, my email address differs from my real one by a '.'. I've heard these things are important in eLand.

It's correct on http://www.aukweb.net/members/profile/  , so should I worry?

Are there any fascinating emails I may have missed recently?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #210 on: November 09, 2011, 01:52:14 pm »
on my renewal notice, my email address differs from my real one by a '.'.

Yes mine's the same.  Definitely odd, but also definitely nothing to worry about.
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #211 on: November 09, 2011, 01:56:02 pm »
Thanks Frank.

(I've just noticed that it's actually missing both of its '.'s. So I suspect an error in the mail merge, or at the printers, or ...  )
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #212 on: November 09, 2011, 06:17:14 pm »
Thanks Frank.

(I've just noticed that it's actually missing both of its '.'s. So I suspect an error in the mail merge, or at the printers, or ...  )

My email address on the renewal form (but not the website) also lacks its dot.
My month of birth is stated as January on the form but June (correct) on the website.

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #213 on: December 01, 2011, 02:22:32 pm »
When will the results for 2011 be finalised and displayed on the website, and 2012 started?

I am aware this is all done by volunteers in their spare time, and there has been an AGM too, so i'm not 'hurrying' anyone up, just wondering whats the usual.

Thanks
@CorbieLinnRider

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #214 on: December 03, 2011, 07:16:14 am »
When will the results for 2011 be finalised and displayed on the website, and 2012 started?

It's happened! (2011 is now a "previous year").

Thanks to the workers.

jogler

  • mojo operandi
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #215 on: December 18, 2011, 08:38:17 pm »
I'm trying to minimise or even avoid driving to audax events in future.Thus I am considering DIY rides.
I know that Bramshall is a control on The China Run & China Teapot audaxes & Bramshall is only 12km from home.
Could I submit the route of this calendar event & use the routesheet for submission to my DIY organiser?

If the organiser agreed to this proposal I would as a matter of courtesy seek the approval of the Calendar event organiser.

Euan Uzami

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #216 on: December 18, 2011, 08:58:08 pm »
I was wondering this, as well , I presume it's deemed courteous to just let them know you're borrowing their "copyright"?
I'm planning on doing some diy rides based on the skeggy 300 as I live only a couple of miles from the route.
If I want to do the perm as it is but just move the start back 50k ish, can I just enter the existing perm but notify the change of start, or is it better to create a whole new diy with the existing controls?

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #217 on: December 18, 2011, 09:06:17 pm »
Ben and Jogler, my (limited) understanding from regular correspondence with Julian Dyson, North-west DIY Tsar, is that if the Calendar organisers also offer the event as a perm then you shouldn't DIY it, you should do it as a perm; but you can usually start a perm anywhere on the route you just have to use all the other controls and infos., too.  I've done this for several of Don Black's and Chris Crossland's rides.

HTH

jogler

  • mojo operandi
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #218 on: December 18, 2011, 09:14:41 pm »
AIUI the Calandar events I refer to are not offered as Perms.

Euan Uzami

Re: Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #219 on: December 18, 2011, 09:23:12 pm »
Ben and Jogler, my (limited) understanding from regular correspondence with Julian Dyson, North-west DIY Tsar, is that if the Calendar organisers also offer the event as a perm then you shouldn't DIY it, you should do it as a perm; but you can usually start a perm anywhere on the route you just have to use all the other controls and infos., too.  I've done this for several of Don Black's and Chris Crossland's rides.

HTH

Does that just apply to the route as it stands, or does it mean you shouldn't extend it either?

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #220 on: December 18, 2011, 09:29:27 pm »
ISTM it is very much down to the individual, rider and org. The thing is, nobody 'owns' the roads so any claims to route copyright are a bit tenuous. Having said that it's right to respect the effort Orgs have put into setting up a route. My take is that if there is a listed perm available which fits in with my plans then I will ride it, even if it means some extra effort. If nothing else it adds interest to the outing riding somebody else's route. Elsewise I'll DIY the route.

For example, there are several 100km routes about 50km from home, some available as perms others not. Last year it suited my objectives to ride the routes as 200km DIYs from home (you cannot 'ECE' perms); where there were 100km perms available I mailed the Orgs and they were fine with it. This year I'd probably enter the 100km perm (if it is available) or not carry a Brevet at all.

Be assured most Orgs are more then happy to help riders, for example, by allowing them to start/finish between listed controls (from a convenient train station, home, whatever). As long as you hit the controls within the time limits the ride is still legal and most perms stipulate a min speed of 14.3km so tim limits are more generous than for a calendar. If in doubt, mail the Org.

mattc

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    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #221 on: December 19, 2011, 03:36:35 pm »
... is that if the Calendar organisers also offer the event as a perm then you shouldn't DIY it, you should do it as a perm

Does that just apply to the route as it stands, or does it mean you shouldn't extend it either?
I don't believe there is any etiqutte for this, written or unwritten. As you can't extend a perm to be an ECE, I take the view that its polite to ask the organiser anyway. On the other hand, if you've paid for and ridden his(her) route once or more, it feels OK to rip off the routesheet to use as part of a longer DIY. (Perhaps you could offer to pay the entry fee anyway, if you haven't ridden it yet. i stress offer ;) ).

Ethics are a personal thing!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #222 on: December 19, 2011, 04:57:15 pm »
I may have misunderstood Jogler's and Ben's comments, but there is a great difficulty in getting a perm agreed that uses a calendar event routesheet if there are info controls involved.  It may be that you can obtain adequate proof of passage, but a common feature of info controls is that they are in the middle of nowhere.  Of course, verification by GPS gets over this.

I have done a number of calendar events as GPS DIYs (always with the organiser's blessing; I think that is a common curtesy).  It would be a little harsh on the DIY organiser to expect them to accept the routesheet as the delineation of your route - you would need to clearly identify each of your "control" points.  But be aware that there are still a few calendar events that don't pass muster on the minimum distance between controls rule.

jogler

  • mojo operandi
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #223 on: December 19, 2011, 06:02:29 pm »
the minimum distance between controls rule.

where can I find these rules please?

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #224 on: December 19, 2011, 06:17:23 pm »
I am merely referring to the fact that the minimum distance between start and finish, passing through all control points, must be not less than the nominal distance (200k or whatever).  The actual routesheet might take you on a longer route to avoid main roads, etc.  This is pretty much the first check (maybe the only check) that the DIY organiser will do when you lodge your entry.  The method of measuring this minimum distance has been discussed on these boards many times, but depending on the organiser is usually done on Autoroute (using "shortest") or GoogleMaps (using "walking", though beware that this will often route you down a bridleway that you wouldn't venture along on a road bike.  I'm afraid that LycraMan here has experience of this  :-[)