Author Topic: Random audax questions  (Read 224265 times)

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #250 on: December 27, 2011, 02:37:49 pm »
1. Batteries. If your GPS uses them then they will add cost to the ride, either by recharging them or replacing them.

Sorry, I don't agree with this one.  In all but exceptional circumstances a typical GPS user will be using rechargeable batteries of one sort or another.  The cost of a couple of charge cycles will be a tiny fraction of the cumulative cost of random stuff you'd typically buy in order to obtain receipts.  The initial outlay for the GPS unit and batteries can be disregarded in the same way that the cost of the bike can.

As for malfunctions, in my extensive experience of GPS and limited experience of Audax, GPS receivers and their batteries are more reliable than commercial controls.  Similarly, senior moments are more of a hazard while faffing about with the contents of your bike bag while tired, than when downloading tracks to your computer in the warm and dry after having had something to eat.

Plus if you're serious about it, there's no reason you can't carry a second GPS receiver as a backup.  One of those basic data logger ones would be ideal.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

RichForrest

  • T'is I, Silverback.
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #251 on: December 27, 2011, 02:59:48 pm »
Receipts or other proof of passage can be used if your gps does pack up en-route.
This has happened to a couple of riders this year, as long as you can prove you've been somewhere that's fine.

Rich

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #252 on: December 27, 2011, 05:15:03 pm »
Sorry to be pedantic/hypothetical but it seems from what you are saying that it effectively allows me to NOT nominate my date in advance. Which I was under the (perhaps mistaken) impression that you had to do. This would suggest  DIYs require one to be less audacious in terms of being at the mercy of future weather conditions, which thus frees up more audacity to enable you to be more audacious in terms of a longer/harder route at a more unseasonable time of year. (I'm not complaining - I think it's good if it is like that - I just want to clarify...and to check it isn't "technically allowed but a loophole that's frowned upon")

IMHO -
since the question was asked in a pedantic spirit, I would suggest the pedantic answer is "technically it's not allowed* but is a loophole that is not frowned upon".  No-one is going to pull you up on it (unless a specific Perm Organiser specifically warns you otherwise - and I don't know of any that would do that, these days).  Most seem to encourage the more flexible approach for 'more bums on saddles' reasons.  (Oh and I'm not complaining either.)

* pretty much for the reasons you describe above.  It goes against the unwritten rule that you set an objective, then go out and do it - but even written rules get discussed for ever, so I suppose an unwritten one is fair game to be ignored.
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

bikey-mikey

  • AUK 6372
  • Yes, I am completely mad ! a.k.a. 333
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #253 on: December 27, 2011, 05:15:47 pm »
Oh right, thanks Martin.
I'll get some cards then I think.

Hi Ben

Remember that you can also do these by GPS if you like (if I remember, you have a Garmin Etrex???)

The advantages are:-

a) you don't have to post anything - nothing to get lost in the post

b) you can enter the night before having seen the weather forecasts (n.b. that is still NO guarantee...)

c) no need to stop and get receipts

d) no need to post card and receipts back (nothing to get lost in the post again)

e) you can put your controls anywhere, e.g. start actually at home, and finish actually at home - N.B. you can also 'turn' at a junction or roundabout in the middle of nowhere, as long as you quote the ordnance survey grid reference (many free programs will give you this) - often this helps me to get the distance just right, else I would have to go to the nearest shop, ATM, pub etc which might be miles away...

f) you can buy 6 electronic brevets at a good discount

A few disadvantages to even things up.

1. Batteries. If your GPS uses them then they will add cost to the ride, either by recharging them or replacing them.

2. If the GPS batteries go flat you're stuffed.

3. If the GPS malfunctions (mine has once this year) then you're stuffed.

4. If you have a senior moment when transferring the GPS track log to your computer and accidentally delete it then you're stuffed.

I didn't mean to start a battle between gps and non GPS - certainly I have done both and both work just fine - I just wanted peeps to get the 'whole' story, so they could make the choice that suited them. 

Personally I hate faffing about for receipts which can easily be lost or get blown away - I have been seen trying to chase a receipt across a petrol station before now...  Then there was the ten minutes spent queueing for an ATM only to get told by the machine that 'receipts are not available - do you want to proceed anyway?'

That said, on many of my GPS rides I tend to place the controls at cafes, where I stop anyway, so I get a receipt as well....  which means that I would be covered if the unit failed - though it has gone just fine for more than 4 years (touch wood  :-X)  If it does ever fail, then I would get receipts for the rest of the ride...

I use a rechargable tecknet 5000 m/amp/hour battery that runs for 30+ hours on top of the Garmins own battery - it probably costs about as much to recharge as the cost of the electricity I am using to type this.....
I’ve decided I’m not old. I’m 25 .....plus shipping and handling.

Cycling heatmap
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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #254 on: December 27, 2011, 05:57:55 pm »
I posted the GPS disadvantages list to see who would bite and... Kim did. Hah! One nil to me  ;D

Over the years I've done rather a lot of Perms (listed, mesh, DIY and GPS) so I think I'm allowed to have an opinion on this. And I know which I prefer.
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #255 on: December 27, 2011, 06:04:15 pm »
Ah well, if we're playing that game then I like riding my bike on my own terms, which doesn't mean stopping and queueing/faffing about/eating/failing to find anything I can eat/doing a quiz when I'd rather keep moving, and vice-versa.  One nil to GPS[1] :P


[1] Or perhaps an own goal to Audax, I haven't really decided yet.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #256 on: December 27, 2011, 06:07:08 pm »
I posted [...] to see who would bite and... Kim did. Hah! One nil to me  ;D

Quick thinking sir!

I'll have to use that next time I post utter rubbish and Kim corrects me.

;)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #257 on: December 27, 2011, 06:14:42 pm »
Quick thinking sir!

I'll have to use that next time I post utter rubbish and Kim corrects me.

;)

The word "utter" was a tad harsh, if you don't mind me saying.
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

bikey-mikey

  • AUK 6372
  • Yes, I am completely mad ! a.k.a. 333
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #258 on: December 29, 2011, 03:17:30 pm »
Quick thinking sir!

I'll have to use that next time I post utter rubbish and Kim corrects me.

;)

The word "utter" was a tad harsh, if you don't mind me saying.

 ;D ;D possibly a mistype for 'nutter'  ;D ;D
I’ve decided I’m not old. I’m 25 .....plus shipping and handling.

Cycling heatmap
https://www.strava.com/athletes/4628735/heatmaps/6ed5ab12#10/51.12782/-3.16388

Time allowed for a 100k ride
« Reply #259 on: December 30, 2011, 02:14:00 pm »
I set out a DIY and did an online entry of the route with a start/finish and 3 intermediate 'controls' giving a shortest route of just over 100k.  I was intending to use the route to get AAA points, but to rack up the altitude it needs about 120k of riding.  When I email my file after the ride how do things work with the time allowed?  100k divided by 15kph gives a time allowed of 6hrs 40min but for 120k it would be over 8 hours.  I would have to average of about 18kph to ride the 120k in 100k time and due the hills, I am not sure I could manage it, especially in this cold, wet and windy weather.  I have had a look through the FAQs but can't seem to find how the time allowed is calculated.  If it is calculated on the shortest distance it seems a bit of a disincentive to keep the number of controls manageable.

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #260 on: December 30, 2011, 02:25:56 pm »
Paul, as far as I know, if your distance on your entry was 100k, then you will only get th 6.40 to do the ride, even if it is actually 120k.  You can only get AAA points on a DIY if you do it by gps.  I've had to forego seven or eight AAA points on DIYs this summer because I use paper!

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Time allowed for a 100k ride
« Reply #261 on: December 30, 2011, 02:41:11 pm »
If it is calculated on the shortest distance it seems a bit of a disincentive to keep the number of controls manageable.
You're aboslutely right, but this is an inherent feature of the Audax "shortest distance between controls" system. We're all stuck with it!

(The DIY guide says something like:
"Some nice routes just aren't suitable for use as an Audax - just ride them and enjoy yourself!" )
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #262 on: December 30, 2011, 02:51:47 pm »
For a 100km audax, it is a Brevet Populaire, so you should be allowed a lower minimum speed. You should agree the minimum speed with the DIY organiser before riding it.

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #263 on: December 30, 2011, 03:50:00 pm »
Paul, as far as I know, if your distance on your entry was 100k, then you will only get th 6.40 to do the ride, even if it is actually 120k.  You can only get AAA points on a DIY if you do it by gps.  I've had to forego seven or eight AAA points on DIYs this summer because I use paper!

thanks Peter - I prefer paper myself, but Father Christmas went on ebay and got me a little GPS to help me with the AAArty - it is actually going to work out cheaper than driving to perms - although I do have a couple of cards for rides out of Settle to keep me going.  Anyway I will trim my 'route as ridden' on Monday and avoid going up the Kirkstone, Red Bank and Blea Tarn so that I can try to get round in time but still leaving enough height to qualify.  Just hope it doesn't freeze to low down as I am not doing the Wrynose and Hardknott if there is a chance of ice on them.


RichForrest

  • T'is I, Silverback.
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #264 on: December 30, 2011, 06:22:18 pm »
I asked the Q? to John ward as he is the Perm Org'. His reply is


"As it stands at the moment all DIYs are 14.3 minimum speed.
The point being that they are a universal standard event, so there is no option to have a BP version with slower times (unless we agree and set a standard different BP minimum time).
So for the moment don't go for a hilly 100km DIY unless you can get round in 14.3km"


Rich

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #265 on: December 30, 2011, 06:34:26 pm »
I asked the Q? to John ward as he is the Perm Org'. His reply is


"As it stands at the moment all DIYs are 14.3 minimum speed.
The point being that they are a universal standard event, so there is no option to have a BP version with slower times (unless we agree and set a standard different BP minimum time).
So for the moment don't go for a hilly 100km DIY unless you can get round in 14.3km"


Rich

And watch out if the "on the road " distance is significantly greater than nominal. Not so much a problem if you are on a GPS DIY but still something to mind when planning the route/controls, as you may not have as much time as you think you have. I very nearly got caught out riding u.n.dulates 120km grimpeur as a DIY last year, for which the calendar had a minimum speed of 12.5kmph.

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #266 on: December 30, 2011, 09:05:05 pm »
thanks Rich and all others who replied, I think that I am clear now.

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #267 on: December 31, 2011, 10:16:33 pm »
Not really worth a thread of it's own but I've been perusing the calandar and there seem to be rather fewer Hailsham/El supremo events, does anyone know if he's got more events to submit or has he just moved his events to new pastures?

Was hoping to do more events this coming year so I might be stuck doing GPS diys  :'( Not sure how I'll come without the oven.
Miles cycled 2014 = 3551.5 (Target 7300 :()
Miles cycled 2013 = 6141.4
Miles cycled 2012 = 4038.1

mmmmartin

  • BPB 1/1: PBP 0/1
    • FNRttC
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #268 on: January 01, 2012, 11:59:50 am »
he is doing 27 events on 13 dates in 2012, starting on jan 29 for £1 from newlands corner near guildford.  and you are right he is moving to other starting points. only four events are from hailsham this year. other starting points are pease pottage, near the motorway services just south of crawley, polegate, just south of hailsham, billingshurst, midhurst, whitchurch. about half are your "normal" 100k events, the rest are either longer or hillier.
I suspect numbers from Hsilsham were dropping off a bit because most of us in that area had done most of the rides.
Why not drop him a note and ask for his Yellow Page of planned events for this year?
Besides, it wouldn't be audacious if success were guaranteed.

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #269 on: January 01, 2012, 12:14:42 pm »
Hmm, well I'll do the Hailsham and Polegate rides. And I guess I'll have to ponder over the Guildford/Billingshurst ones.

I think 40/45 miles is a bit far for me to cycle to and from the start and if my condition is anything like after my first 300k I won't be fit to drive either (I guess that'll be incentive to sort out my bike fit and fitness) as I could barely move.

I guess for a couple I could B&B/camp, can't afford to do that for loads of rides but one or two should be doable.
Miles cycled 2014 = 3551.5 (Target 7300 :()
Miles cycled 2013 = 6141.4
Miles cycled 2012 = 4038.1

mmmmartin

  • BPB 1/1: PBP 0/1
    • FNRttC
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #270 on: January 01, 2012, 10:37:07 pm »
have a think about extending a calendar event, called ECE, it seems pretty simple to fix, apart from the riding, but it means a 100k that is hard to get to on a Sunday morning becomes a 200k with an early start and a bit of a train ride afterwards.
martin malins is your man, the audax website has helpful info. but guildford is a long way from you I think. I think camping is one way forward as one could ride there and camp, then kip in the tent afterwards, but there is no campsite near the Pease Pottage start and Gatwick B&B prices are a bit high......
Besides, it wouldn't be audacious if success were guaranteed.

RichForrest

  • T'is I, Silverback.
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #271 on: January 04, 2012, 05:10:36 pm »
I asked the Q? to John ward as he is the Perm Org'. His reply is


"As it stands at the moment all DIYs are 14.3 minimum speed.
The point being that they are a universal standard event, so there is no option to have a BP version with slower times (unless we agree and set a standard different BP minimum time).
So for the moment don't go for a hilly 100km DIY unless you can get round in 14.3km"


Rich

After discussion John has set the BP rides at a minimum of 10kph, so if you do decide to do a hilly ride of 50/100/150km you now have more time to do it in.

Rich

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #272 on: January 04, 2012, 07:16:13 pm »
Just to be 100% crystal clear on that, if I set out a DIY-by-gps course with 3 or 4 'controls' that is 145k riding, 120k shortest distance, I get 10 hours max, as it is a 100k validated ride (and it is 100k/10kph)?

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #273 on: January 06, 2012, 05:51:33 pm »
No, you should get 12 hours (120km / 10kph)
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #274 on: January 06, 2012, 06:27:34 pm »
An apparently simple change with some big implications.

Time limit for hilly 199km BP, 19hrs, 54min.

Time limit for hilly 200km BR, 13hrs, 55 min.

If nothing it else it certainly nails the distinction between BP & BR events.

To what extent has this been discussed/agreed with the committee and other interested parties such as the AAA/FWC orgs?