Author Topic: Random audax questions  (Read 224276 times)

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #275 on: January 06, 2012, 07:42:40 pm »
I don't think anyone is going to get unfair advantage from such a generous time allowance, but there is a big positive:  It allows DIYs to be set out with a limited number of controls (sensible admin workload), but ridden well over-distance to get lots of hills/nicest route in and without having to race round like mad.  Having said that, I had got it it wrong about the time being based on minimum distance rather than simply 100k, 150k etc.

mattc

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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #276 on: January 06, 2012, 07:47:17 pm »
An apparently simple change with some big implications.

Time limit for hilly 199km BP, 19hrs, 54min.

Time limit for hilly 200km BR, 13hrs, 55 min.
...
If one is only after AAA points, can one choose to enter a 200km BP?!?
Has never ridden RAAM
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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #277 on: January 13, 2012, 08:04:43 pm »
DIY (by GPS) question (sort of)
Is it OK to construct a route made up of three loops all starting and finishing at the same point (i.e. home) ?
Reason I ask is that to keep our husband & wife RRTY on track in February it looks as though a DIY in half term week maybe the only option.
Whilst the kids are (usually) well enough behaved (and in theory old enough) to be left on their own for around 12 hours it would be preferable to check on them occasionally.
Does the availability of home comforts at two intermediate points in a 200 run counter to the spirit of self-sufficiency ?

RichForrest

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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #278 on: January 13, 2012, 08:15:11 pm »
You can't do the same loop more than once but as long as the route doesn't have too many controls there shouldn't be a problem with it.
Using it twice as a middle control would make a 7 controls. Which is effectively out and back for the 3 loops.


Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #279 on: January 13, 2012, 08:37:17 pm »
You can't do the same loop more than once but as long as the route doesn't have too many controls there shouldn't be a problem with it.
Using it twice as a middle control would make a 7 controls. Which is effectively out and back for the 3 loops.

Thanks for that.
Yes it would be three separate loops, but my first attempt at planning runs to 13 controls (including start/finish) I do recall reading a thread which complained about 20 controls on a 200 being way OTT, and I dont want to piss my local organiser off  :)

bikey-mikey

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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #280 on: January 13, 2012, 09:43:34 pm »
I just did an entry for a 600 DIYxGPS for tomorrow & Sunday, with 19 controls including the finish.

1 was 52 kms, 6 were mid 40s, 3 mid 30s, 4 in their 20s with 4 shorter ones to keep it on the track I intend to ride around Bristol, else it would go way over distance.

Googlemapswalking drills right through the worst of Bristol, sometimes using footpaths not bikeable, and major roads which are just not safe, whereas I take the safer, quieter, much longer route around... and I want the controls to mimic the route I will ride, else it would be daft.  I put them on the extreme corners of the route I ride around, of course.

I do keep playing around trying to reduce control numbers, but have you noticed recently that googlemapswalking has become more footpath oriented around large towns??   I keep the short ref links to past routes, which are now coming up shorter than before, and go a different way than they used to.... which again mitigates towards either shorter control distances, or more overdistance rides...

Thank goodness we have good orgs out there...  :thumbsup:
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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #281 on: January 14, 2012, 02:52:28 pm »
...have you noticed recently that googlemapswalking has become more footpath oriented around large towns??  ...
reason being Mike is that google has switched its data supplier and presumably the new data has got much more data on what footpaths are available.





OK,  serious question - if a diy route includes a ferry, am I right in assuming that (a) the distance the ferry travels doesn't count (i.e. it's assumed one dock is the 'same place' as the other for distance calculation), (b) the time DOES count, and (c) that given (a), it doesn't matter how long the ferry journey is?
I know some existing calendar/perm audaxes include ferry trips but they are usually intra-britain and fairly short. But what if i wanted to route a diy across the channel? I know there are a lot of cases where it wouldn't be practical due to the time spent not cycling but some of the cross channel routes are only a couple of hours, or available as overnight services, which you would want to sleep anyway.

oh and Rich, I don't suppose you managed to find out about my question about the 200km a day  slowest randonneur speed for distances >= 2,499km? (which was do all days have to be >=200km, or is it just average)
Am I safe in presuming it's "average" - as if it were the former, then I might as well just submit each day as a separate DIY?
If so, do I always have to be "in credit" so to speak?

I'm planning my summer tour carefully to try to maximise my points-per-days-of-annual-leave-used-up but at the same time keep it as tour-like as possible ;)

Euan Uzami

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #282 on: January 14, 2012, 06:07:57 pm »
hmm. I think i've answered my own question. I think I am going to just make them all at least 200km then I can just submit them all as separate ones, and then I don't need to have 13 days at it in one go.
I suppose in that sense, the minimum speed for multi-day rides, although it drops as the distance increases, it doesn't drop enough to make them attractive enough. The only way a really long single brevet would be good value is if you were to do it within the 10kph band and do 240km per day for 9 days - but all the extra 40s are only giving you an extra 300 in total, and that's not worth the disadvantage of putting all your eggs in one basket so to speak.

I presume there's nothing to stop me doing a series of 200km DIYs, all linear, on consecutive days? (Some of them abroad?)

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #283 on: January 16, 2012, 10:25:50 am »
...have you noticed recently that googlemapswalking has become more footpath oriented around large towns??  ...
reason being Mike is that google has switched its data supplier and presumably the new data has got much more data on what footpaths are available.

That explains a lot. My last DIY by GPS ride had a few pedestrian-only sections courtesy of Google...
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

arabella

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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #284 on: January 17, 2012, 09:50:55 am »
On a recent DIY google suggested I go through the middle of a firing range.  I found an alternative route around the edge, also off-road.

via Michelin bike option may be better, but I haven't yet got to grips with it.

thought:  if google walking has become more footpath-y is is less good as the AUK default 'shortest distance'-o-meter?
In the dark, all views are the same.

Euan Uzami

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #285 on: January 17, 2012, 10:01:00 am »
On a recent DIY google suggested I go through the middle of a firing range.  I found an alternative route around the edge, also off-road.

via Michelin bike option may be better, but I haven't yet got to grips with it.

thought:  if google walking has become more footpath-y is is less good as the AUK default 'shortest distance'-o-meter?

imho, yes.
It's actually quite frustrating as well that in britain, MapPoint seems pretty good at choosing the shortest on road distance, but in france, MapPoint routes down some things that are clearly non-roads (i.e. unsurfaced dirt tracks , sheep paths etc - you can tell by streetview)

Martin

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #286 on: January 17, 2012, 10:13:03 am »
I'm getting very frustrated with Google Maps; it's always way under the actual distance ridden; even when you use the exact route that you record on the GPS. I wonder if it just straightens out all the bends? Having said that AR and VM bike are no better. My AR has fallen over so I don't offer it any more

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #287 on: January 18, 2012, 10:33:11 am »
GPS will always over-record distance.

Leave a GPS unit alone and it will happily clock up a few km due to variations in GPS location which the unit percieves as movement. It continues to do that during a ride of course. Thereby recording a zig-zag when you are actually riding in a straight line.

You're only as successful as your last 1200...

mattc

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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #288 on: January 18, 2012, 11:20:15 am »
Yup.

The P stands for positioning - not distance measuring.
Has never ridden RAAM
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Manotea

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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #289 on: January 18, 2012, 01:14:45 pm »
Also, though this is possibly of less significance for us home counties types, maps are two dimensional; roads are three dimensional.

bikey-mikey

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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #290 on: January 18, 2012, 11:29:57 pm »
Also, though this is possibly of less significance for us home counties types, maps are two dimensional; roads are three dimensional.

and Audax is 4 dimensional....  ;)
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CrazyEnglishTriathlete

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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #291 on: January 21, 2012, 09:45:19 pm »
I've found the Google Maps routes to be within 1% of the distance on both my cycle computers and usually better than that. 

I do check the result against Ordnance Survey maps as there are a few places where it will send you down footpath, cart track, etc, etc.  However, these are outweighed by the number of times it has shown me something I would have guessed otherwise just from reading maps. 

What I do like above other free map software is the ease by which I can adjust the route to model a route.  It means that I'm much less often late back which means less brownie points required from Mrs CET.

But then I don't own a GPS.   :smug:
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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #292 on: January 22, 2012, 12:03:41 am »
Also, though this is possibly of less significance for us home counties types, maps are two dimensional; roads are three dimensional.

and Audax is 4 dimensional....  ;)

I think I might have discovered a 5th too on PBP!

harvee

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #293 on: February 02, 2012, 07:36:21 pm »
What is the situation with doing a permanent but amending it? Does this count as a diy or would this be regarded as plagarism so to speak?

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #294 on: February 03, 2012, 09:13:20 am »
What is the situation with doing a permanent but amending it? Does this count as a diy or would this be regarded as plagarism so to speak?
There should be no problem using it as a DIY, but my view is that you should contact the relevant perm organiser as a curtesy.  It is possible (depending on how much you seek to amend it) that it could still be done as the "official" perm.  For instance, Mark Beauchamp was quite happy for his Anorak's Delight to be started in Reading (it doesn't go that close to Reading, but it was a convenient start point) and he kindly (but, as it turned out, unnecessarily) offered that we could miss one of the infos due to the route now being a bit longer.

Euan Uzami

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #295 on: February 03, 2012, 09:24:00 am »
What is the situation with doing a permanent but amending it? Does this count as a diy or would this be regarded as plagarism so to speak?
might depend on organiser but ime you can move the start back or forward along the route, including to a location that's not already an existing control

bikey-mikey

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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #296 on: February 06, 2012, 09:11:00 pm »
What is the situation with doing a permanent but amending it? Does this count as a diy or would this be regarded as plagarism so to speak?
might depend on organiser but ime you can move the start back or forward along the route, including to a location that's not already an existing control

I tried that on Shawn re the Wessex SR, hoping to start one of the perms where the route more or less passes my house (within 9 KM anyway) (Brizzle) rather than riding 30+ kms to Malmesbury, (one of the controls) but as was his right he said "nope"

He also said something along the lines of "no good for Wessex SR starting up there cos it is not the same ride as everyone else does" - again I initially thought he was being daft, however I can with hindsight see his point and if I was based down there, so to speak, I might feel aggrieved if someone from up here got a WSR riding from the 'other side' as it were....

Of course 600 km of new territory, done completely alone, where the controls in certain places might be shut, was probably far too easy, so I may instead do the group perm with everyone else, with the moral support of the other riders, the ability to slipstream, get mechanical help, have someone who already knows the route, and the best controls, so it will obviously be a much harder ride as a result..... Luckily I will also need to ride down to and back from the Poole (ish) start as two extra 200 km rides (DIYxGPS), so it will be a nice 1000 km outing...     ;D ;D ;D
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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #297 on: February 06, 2012, 09:21:51 pm »
^^^

Odd, that. Certainly some organisers allow you to start anywhere, as long as it's on the route.  In fact, it's an inconvenience to the rider, if anyone, because you have to get more proofs of passage than otherwise.  Unless, of course, the problem is that the organise can't work out the logistics of the receipts and so on; I can't believe that would be the case.

I'm surprised: do organisers want people to do their rides, or not?  It certainly would reduce reliance on cars and riding when too tired because of having to get up earlier than is strictly necessary.  Or is there something in the integrity of the route, e.g. it's atradition that you do this hill at the end, when you are absolutley cream-crackered rather than get it out of the way at the beginning and be whacked for the rest of the ride?  That doesn't make a lot of sense, I think.

Maybe there really is some ethical or other reason to refuse a different start and I'd be happy to be told so!

eck

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Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #298 on: February 06, 2012, 09:41:51 pm »
As a DiY organiser, and an organiser of one "proper" perm (the Snow Roads), my view would be that, if someone wants to do the Snow Roads perm, they do the route ie they visit all the controls - starting and finishing anywhere they like, as long as it's one of the controls, or somewhere in between controls where they can get PoP. That has happened a few times - no problem for me. I'd also be happy for someone to do it in the opposite direction.

If they want to base their ride on what is substantially my perm ride, but with knobs on, then it's a DIY. That too has happened and been agreed to.

So, in bikey-mikey's case, I wouldn't have a problem with him starting and finishing on the route at the nearest point to where he lives.(provided he could get a control), I wouldn't require him to add another 30km each way just to start at one of the recognised controls. But there may, of course, be additional factors about the Wessex SR that I don't know about.

OTOH, I have been asked to let a rider to join in a caledar event about 60km from the proper start.  :facepalm:

It's a bit weird, but actually quite wonderful.

Euan Uzami

Re: Random audax questions
« Reply #299 on: February 06, 2012, 10:40:48 pm »
I tried that on Shawn re the Wessex SR, hoping to start one of the perms where the route more or less passes my house (within 9 KM anyway) (Brizzle) rather than riding 30+ kms to Malmesbury, (one of the controls) but as was his right he said "nope"

He also said something along the lines of "no good for Wessex SR starting up there cos it is not the same ride as everyone else does" - again I initially thought he was being daft, however I can with hindsight see his point and if I was based down there, so to speak, I might feel aggrieved if someone from up here got a WSR riding from the 'other side' as it were....

Of course 600 km of new territory, done completely alone, where the controls in certain places might be shut, was probably far too easy, so I may instead do the group perm with everyone else, with the moral support of the other riders, the ability to slipstream, get mechanical help, have someone who already knows the route, and the best controls, so it will obviously be a much harder ride as a result..... Luckily I will also need to ride down to and back from the Poole (ish) start as two extra 200 km rides (DIYxGPS), so it will be a nice 1000 km outing...     ;D ;D ;D

9km isn't considered "more or less" the same place.... certainly not when there's AAA points

you should have just rode the 9km to the nearest point on the route and started there...