Help with frame related questions

[clarion]

Did you know that Trevor Jarvis does 'normal' frames - some with fancy lugs, too - as well as Flying Gates?

I understand he was ill last year, though, so I'm not sure if he's building.

[bikepacker]

Last time I spoke to Trevor he was handing all the frame making over to Jeremy Cartwright who doesn't seem to have the depth of experience with bike frames.

[clarion]

Oh.  OK.  Best wishes to Trevor if you are in touch.

[mrcharly-YHT]

I'll check up tomorrow on Henry Burton, I have emailed Lee Cooper but got no response. Like the idea of using Dave but it is a jaunt from here over to Lincolnshire. Robin Mather is not too far away and although he is top notch his price is very high for a steel frame. Really only looking at the £1000 mark.

Mercian would be my choice.

[clarion]

Personally, I'd make the extra effort and go to Dave Yates.

[bikepacker]

I am begining to think that might be the best option.

[Bicycle Repair Man]

I could not possibly comment 

Dave Yates

[clarion]

I could.  I've never owned one of your frames, Dave, but I have aspired to for a very long time now.  I've seen you working at York Rally, and I bet there are a lot of framebuilders who wouldn't be prepared to submit to that kind of scrutiny.  I've ridden a couple of bikes built up from your frames, and they were really well crafted.

Can I get a discount?

[tiermat]

I know two people, other than myself, who are able to comment, one OTP, the other not.

One keeps posting pictures of his lovely purple DY bike on FB, I think he likes it.

The other keep raving about how he really likes his DY built Flying Scot.

OK, not a representative sample, but good enough for me (and I used to own the frame the first person ^ now has, and if it wasn't too small for me, I would still have it )

I have just, recently, negiotiated buying another DY frame, one that is the right size for me, so there must be something in it

[Ian H]

A friend of mine has a hobby pulling bikes out of skips and renovating them. A while ago he found a good condition Colnago MTB (yes, really), and now he's found a Dave Yates frame.

[Bicycle Repair Man]

and now he's found a Dave Yates frame.

IN A SKIP  !!!!!!!!! 

Whoever put it there was obviously a complete philistine ! At the end of their days they at least should get a proper funeral. 

Dave Yates

[Ian H]

and now he's found a Dave Yates frame.

IN A SKIP  !!!!!!!!! 

Whoever put it there was obviously a complete philistine ! At the end of their days they at least should get a proper funeral. 

Dave Yates

I think this one's going to rise from the dead.

[clarion]

Zombike!

[bikepacker]

I have just been on a ride with someone who has a Bob Jackson off the peg World Tour frame with 631 tubing. It rode extremely well and was as comfortable to me as my old 531 frame. I don't know much about this company and wondered if there are any downsides to these frames as they are priced at £500 less than similar custom ones.

[clarion]

Bob Jackson are my favourite builders.  Even more than Woodrup.  The World Tour is, without doubt, an excellent design, and, could I but afford one, I'd have one right now.

Well worth getting in touch with them.

Btw, they no longer have a retail shop, and operate just as framebuilders.

[SteelRules]

Hi Dave,

I appreciate your response to my last batch of questions.
I am trying to know more about your philosophy of road frame design.
Unfortunately, you don't put out much information.

If I may ask:

1. Do you design your road frames to achieve a proportion of weight distribution, that
according to your experience works? Pino Morroni advocated 45/55 front/rear.
The ratio 40/60 front/rear seems more common nowadays. Can we know your take in that regard?

2. Round straight chainstays versus oval. Are you in favour of one type versus the other?
Are there Reynolds 631 round straight 7/8' (22.2mm) chainstays available in 410mm length?

As always, your comments are appreciated.   

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Now then

Unfortunately, you don't put out much information.

That is because the questions are a result of you spending far too much time thinking up strange questions instead of riding your bike 

I am trying to know more about your philosophy of road frame design

My "philosophy" on frame design is based on experience, both of riding ( first cat road racing licence for 9 years, club riding, touring, audaxing inc. PBP and LEL) and building the things for 36 years having been responsible for some 12500 frames. I have a good idea of what works in a given situation. Each situation (customer) is different so it is difficult to say "this is how I do it" I tend to work very much by the "seat of the pants" and take each design as it comes. The stuff you have been asking is far too esoteric for me. I suspect you would get the same response (if any) from most of the experienced builders. One of the first things I say to people on my framebuilding courses is that there are as many different ways of building frames as there are framebuilders. Some use computers and lots of numbers. I use the wet finger in the wind approach. It works for me !!!

1. Do you design your road frames to achieve a proportion of weight distribution, that
according to your experience works? Pino Morroni advocated 45/55 front/rear.
The ratio 40/60 front/rear seems more common nowadays. Can we know your take in that regard?

See above !!! I am sure Mr Morroni has very fixed ideas on the subject and being Italian he must be right. However as I said I dont do numbers like that. If it looks right it probably is.

2. Round straight chainstays versus oval. Are you in favour of one type versus the other?
Are there Reynolds 631 round straight 7/8' (22.2mm) chainstays available in 410mm length?

If you are talking about a 7/8" dia tube as a chainstay, hideous things, and as far as I am aware Reynolds have never listed items such as these although they will do anything to special order. I know one builder who made frames with this configuration but it was purely a marketing ploy. "Look at my frames they are different" not neccessarily "better"

Cheers

Dave Yates

[SteelRules]

Dave,

I appreciate your patience in replying my esoteric questions.
I have tried to know your frame designs better. Call it respect for a craftsman or
for somebody who has persisted in the trade despite the difficulties brought by mass production.
Know that I remain genuinely curious. You are right in one thing, though, that I should ride more.
Nevertheless, in Cartesian mode, when I ride I also think.

Probably better to step aside for now.

P.S. It seems to me that Columbus is gaining market share through liaison with reputable framebuilders.
Reynolds, are you taking note?

[Torslanda]

Hi Dave, I wonder if you wouldn't mind helping me?

I have a steel Basso of indeterminate age (built from Columbus CroMo if that helps) and I need to change the BB. The fitted unit is a Shimano UN10, the BB shell is a 'cutaway' design with tubular cable guides brazed in place. The end caps are marked 36x24 and the BB shell appears to be 70mm across. The cups are plastic and FAG/Campag style. All of this is suggesting to me that the BB is Italian thread which I have never dealt with before.

Any pratfalls to avoid?

luv'n'stuff

John B

[Bicycle Repair Man]

Hi Dave, I wonder if you wouldn't mind helping me?

I have a steel Basso of indeterminate age (built from Columbus CroMo if that helps) and I need to change the BB. The fitted unit is a Shimano UN10, the BB shell is a 'cutaway' design with tubular cable guides brazed in place. The end caps are marked 36x24 and the BB shell appears to be 70mm across. The cups are plastic and FAG/Campag style. All of this is suggesting to me that the BB is Italian thread which I have never dealt with before.

Any pratfalls to avoid?

luv'n'stuff

John B

Hi John

Your BB is indeed Italian. All you have to rember is that both cups are right hand threaded so come out anticlockwise. Replace with like threaded components and all will be well !!!
I love both your avatar (got a real one next door) and your signature quote. Who is that atributable to? Very profound.

Cheers

Dave Yates

[Biggsy]

It's a Genesis song.  (I only know that thanks to Google.  Not quite a Genesis fan myself).

[Torslanda]

Thanks. I'd suspected it was an odd one for a while.

The avatar is a kind of 'requiem for British industry' - the Avro factory is less than 2 miles from me and BAe recently shut it! Somewhere my sister has the bomb selector from the Lancaster's nose and I'm sure the 'RCA 88' at mum's came from something similar. I love the engineering ('200,000 rivets flying in loose formation' ) and am fascinated that war can produce such innovation and such wanton waste of resources. And they're beautiful!

The signature is a Genesis lyric. 'Guide Vocal' from the 'Duke' album. About 6 months after Dad died I was making a brew at work and it came into my head. I don't mind saying I was perfectly useless for a good 20 minutes after . . .

Thanks again and, yes, I do run a bike shop, I'd just never seen an Italian BB before.

luv'n'stuff

J

[tedzlad1]

i have got a 1984 claude butler reynolds 531 recently from a granparent was just wondering if i could find out a bit more infomation about it (pricewise) i have been told it could be worth good money and im just curious

[mrcharly-YHT]

It's unlikely to be worth much, Claud Butlers aren't anything special.  Just enjoy riding it.

[tatanab]

It's unlikely to be worth much, Claud Butlers aren't anything special.  Just enjoy riding it.

You have to go back to original Claud Butlers from the 50s and earlier for them to be worth good money. Some models into the 1980s were average or sightly above average machines, by mass produced standards, but that is all.
1984 catalogue -   http://www.nkilgariff.com/CBcats/Cat_84/CB1984_Cat.htm