Author Topic: When can you sleep on long rides?  (Read 7394 times)

legitlee

When can you sleep on long rides?
« on: August 01, 2011, 11:13:08 am »
Its me again the newbie (albeit excited :thumbsup:) my question is more of a interest than thinking about doing any distance which may warrant sleep. I have just been reading a thread on speeds and getting to controls early/late fitting in breaks for food etc.

I have read reports when one cyclist passed another who was asleep in a bus shelter and other places.

My question is: How do you fit sleep in when you have to be at controls within certain times?

Just to keep you all informed from the advice given on another thread I have picked my first few Audax, I have decided to do the following so far:
4th Sep 107 Moria,
10th Sep 111 Tamworth
1st Oct 109 Darley Abbey,
16th Oct 107 Alfreton,
Then start the new season with 12th Nov 100 Alfreton. That should keep me busy.....Thanks in anticipation Lee

MercuryKev

  • Maxin' n Audaxin'
Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2011, 11:22:23 am »
The trick is to build up a time buffer that allows you to have a few hours sleep.  For example on a 600km ride that starts at 6am, you can ride a 22 hour 400km, which means that you could have a sleep at 2am.  Lets say that the next control is at the 500km mark, based on a 15km/h minimum speed you have 33h 20 min to get to the control, or 11h 20min after you reach the 400km mark.  If it takes you 5 hours to ride 100km, you could then afford to sleep for 6h 20mins.  This means that you could sleep until 7am, have some breakfast and then ride on to the next control within the time limits.

The trick is allowing time for things like punctures etc so that you don't miss the time limit for the control after the sleep stop.

Hope that all makes sense.

legitlee

Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2011, 11:36:37 am »
Yes thank you totally makes sense, I think that's why I'm going to enjoy the challenge of Audax, lots of planning and preparation along with having to decide things on the day make for much more of a challenge to just following signs as on a sportive. 

Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2011, 01:09:33 pm »
Or you can do what I do - i.e. not sleep on 400s and 600s.

1200s & 1400s, however, I can't manage without sleeping :)
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

MercuryKev

  • Maxin' n Audaxin'
Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2011, 01:29:00 pm »
Or you can do what I do - i.e. not sleep on 400s and 600s.

1200s & 1400s, however, I can't manage without sleeping :)


I sohuld have said that I've never had any need to sleep on anything below a 600 and even on a 600 I can manage without any if that's what's needed.  I do like a warm bed at the 400 stage though - no need to rough it on an audax.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2011, 01:56:40 pm »
Or you can do what I do - i.e. not sleep on 400s and 600s.


Can he? Could be a big assumption.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

legitlee

Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2011, 03:32:24 pm »
Respect :thumbsup: you guys are one hell of an incentive

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2011, 03:36:32 pm »
But the point is there are more ways to skin a cat.
A lot of people manage OK with a few power naps of <30mins, no need to factor in a sleep of several hours.
Some riders are slow on the road and don't have time to sleep at all.
Others are fast on the road so certainly wouldn't need to sleep on a 400.
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2011, 06:29:10 pm »
Or you can do what I do - i.e. not sleep on 400s and 600s.


Can he? Could be a big assumption.

I apologise. I should have written "Or you could do what I do - i.e. not sleep on 400s and 600s."

My humblest thanks to beardie Matt.
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

mikeluke

Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2011, 09:32:17 pm »
As a representative of that rare beast, an Audax rider under 30, I find that I need a proper nights sleep but have still comfortablly finished a 600km within the time limit. The key to Audax speed is minimising the length of stops at controls, which gives you more time to ride and sleep as needed.

Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2011, 07:48:56 am »
The key to Audax speed is minimising the length of stops at controls

+1 to that
You're only as successful as your last 1200...

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2011, 08:15:52 am »
The key to Audax speed is minimising the length of stops at controls

+1 to that
And pumping your tyres up.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

legitlee

Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2011, 08:30:01 am »
You people are my kind of folks very helpful while having a laugh at the same time. I cant wait to meet some of you. Thx  :thumbsup:

The Mechanic

Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2011, 08:49:10 am »
All the audaxes you mention are 100km rides.  You don't even have to wake up for those let alone sleep.

mikeluke

Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2011, 09:03:24 am »
We all started somewhere... You should look at Autumn in the Peak if you want a short but more challenging ride.

fungus

  • SO @ T
    • Tamworth cycling club
Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2011, 09:23:08 am »
We all started somewhere... You should look at Autumn in the Peak if you want a short but more challenging ride.

+1

Any of the hilly peak district 100's are good  :thumbsup:
SR 2010/11/12/13/14/15
RRTY. PBP. LeJoG 1400. LEL.




Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2011, 09:33:20 am »
The trick is to build up a time buffer that allows you to have a few hours sleep.  For example on a 600km ride that starts at 6am, you can ride a 22 hour 400km, which means that you could have a sleep at 2am.  Lets say that the next control is at the 500km mark, based on a 15km/h minimum speed you have 33h 20 min to get to the control, or 11h 20min after you reach the 400km mark.  If it takes you 5 hours to ride 100km, you could then afford to sleep for 6h 20mins.  This means that you could sleep until 7am, have some breakfast and then ride on to the next control within the time limits.

The trick is allowing time for things like punctures etc so that you don't miss the time limit for the control after the sleep stop.

Hope that all makes sense.

I remember hearing that someone wrote a speadsheet to calculate all this out - so they knew if they were were riding on schedule or not - and how long they could stop/sleep for.

LEE

Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2011, 09:56:43 am »
I'll sleep if there's somewhere to sleep (YHA on Bryan Chapman 600) and won't if there isn't (Midhurst 600).

I'm not fast enough to get much sleep anyway, I think I usually get 2 hours in the YHA bunk (I could probably get a couple
more but I don't like to cut it too fine getting to the finish).

It's quite amazing what 2 hours kip does to recharge the batteries though, especially waking at 7am after a long night ride.  You realise what proper deep sleep is after riding through a wet and cold night.  2 hours is like 2 seconds.

If you can get through the night you tend to feel better once the sun comes up but I did start hallucinating at the end of the Midhurst 600 as it started to go dark again.  That's why I think it would be too dangerous to attempt 2 nights without sleep.  It's sometimes enough just to lie in the corner of a village hall control for 30 minutes.  Bus Shelters are usually too cold at the time of year I do 600s.

legitlee

Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2011, 10:00:37 am »
Yes 100s to start with I need to learn a little before I get to ambitious (walking before running comes to mind) I have just done a season of sportives and therefore I follow a signed marked route as quick as I can. I need to learn to navigate whilst cycling and plan my speed, food etc for longer distances.  Its not the fitness or the distance I did a diy 200 to see if I could manage and it was fine.

So I have 4 x 100s in mind prior to November to meet people have a chat learn what I can listen to advice then my first one in November for the start of the new season is a 100, by then the calender for 2012 should be out and I will then start to increase distances, and just suck it and see..

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2011, 10:20:16 am »
As a representative of that rare beast, an Audax rider under 30, I find that I need a proper nights sleep but have still comfortablly finished a 600km within the time limit. The key to Audax speed is minimising the length of stops at controls, which gives you more time to ride and sleep as needed.
As another specimen of the same species, I got through the Bryan Chapman with half an hour's kip.  It takes all sorts  :P

CramCycle

  • Mille Failte
    • The Bicycling Biochemist
Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2011, 11:30:31 am »
As a representative of that rare beast, an Audax rider under 30, I find that I need a proper nights sleep but have still comfortablly finished a 600km within the time limit. The key to Audax speed is minimising the length of stops at controls, which gives you more time to ride and sleep as needed.
As another specimen of the same species, I got through the Bryan Chapman with half an hour's kip.  It takes all sorts  :P

I'm a 3rd, I think we are less rare than is widely believed. I lay down for an attempted 90 minutes on the BCpM but forgot my earplugs, so got up worse than when I lay down, then I kipped for 30 minutes on the armchair in the bag room. Felt good after that.

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2011, 11:52:10 am »
I'm a relatively slow rider so need to use most of the time on longer rides.  I've found that if I go into an event feeling reasonably rested and not stressed about other stuff I can ride a hard 600 (e.g. Beast from the East) without sleeping. I started the BCM this year feeling tired and had to have 30 minutes snoring time in the bag room but was then fine for the rest of the day. I've never stopped to sleep on a 400 but I'll usually have a nap at the finish, especially if I have to drive home afterwards.
Between the Disney abattoir and the chemical refinery

AndyH

Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2011, 09:24:42 pm »
Yes 100s to start with I need to learn a little before I get to ambitious (walking before running comes to mind) I have just done a season of sportives and therefore I follow a signed marked route as quick as I can. I need to learn to navigate whilst cycling and plan my speed, food etc for longer distances.  Its not the fitness or the distance I did a diy 200 to see if I could manage and it was fine.

So I have 4 x 100s in mind prior to November to meet people have a chat learn what I can listen to advice then my first one in November for the start of the new season is a 100, by then the calender for 2012 should be out and I will then start to increase distances, and just suck it and see..

You are well on the slippery slope, I was a total beginner to Audax 18 months ago. Navigation is usually easier than you think, sleep requirements vary.

I always thought I needed loads of it, and concentrated on getting fast enough to bank sleep time. All went well on the Bryan Chapman 600 where I got 4 hours sleep, 2 meals & a shower overnight, but I had a bad time on the K&SW 600, got about 2 hours disturbed sleep and then went fine when I set off on day 2. However it took me a while to get used to any of it. I think the best bet is to try a couple of 400s 1st and see how you go - depending how fast you are a 400 gives you the opportunity to push the boundaries of sleep deprivation.

Until you try it though, you won't really know what you can do. On the first few attempts I'd have some sort of stimulant (gel with caffeine maybe) to just give you a boost - because when you start hallucinating / falling asleep on the bike / riding into ditches you can guarantee that there wont be anywhere handy for a kip. Don't ask me how I know this.

Where are your 4 100s?

legitlee

Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2011, 07:00:41 am »
This is my plan at the moment.

4th Sep 107 Moria,
10th Sep 111 Tamworth (edit 200)
1st Oct 109 Darley Abbey, (edit 150)
16th Oct 107 Alfreton,
Then start the new season with 12th Nov 100 Alfreton by then next years calendar i think will be out.

However I am still undecided about Tamworth and Darley Abbey, my mind has been debating  jumping in at the deep end and doing Tamworth 200, and at Darley Abbey there is a 150. I'm sure I can complete, I just dont want to be to ambitious, I think I should learn to walk before running.

MercuryKev

  • Maxin' n Audaxin'
Re: When can you sleep on long rides?
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2011, 07:35:06 am »
However I am still undecided about Tamworth and Darley Abbey, my mind has been debating  jumping in at the deep end and doing Tamworth 200, and at Darley Abbey there is a 150. I'm sure I can complete, I just dont want to be to ambitious, I think I should learn to walk before running.


If you've already ridden a 200 before I would do the two longer rides.  If your concern is navigation, you'll be surprised how little if often needed on an audax especially if you ride with or near another group.  What's the worst that can happen?