Rear lights query, dynamo powered and mudguard mounted

[Frere]

Is something like the Busch & Muller Seculite Plus Rear Mudguard Dynamo Standlight legal in this country?

And is it any good?

Am trying to find decent dynamo powered rear lights that does not involve the use of a rack, would like to retain flexibility with carrying stuff using Bagmans and various Carradices, and just seems a pity not to run a dynamo powered rear light. Something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Busch-Muller-Toplight-Seatpost-Dynamo-Light-Bracket-/190452859914?pt=UK_SportsLeisure_Cycling_Bike_Lights&hash=item2c57e0040a#ht_500wt_710 negates the use of Bagmans etc.

Many thanks in advance

Frere 

[CrinklyLion]

I believe Kim has fettled a couple of dynamo powered mudguard mounted rear lights onto the baraktacycle - pixeo somethingoranothers?

[Tewdric]

Dynamo ones are easy to find - see SJS Cycles webby. - it's battery powered mudguard lights that are trickier to get.  I managed to kill a Spaninga Pixeo and am back on a chinese special - also from SJS.  It works OK but has failed in heavy rain, as did the Pixeo, although I think I was a bit heavy-handed shortening the bolt with a bench grinder and I've no doubt that contributed to its early demise! 

[dippy2]

Is something like the Busch & Muller Seculite Plus Rear Mudguard Dynamo Standlight legal in this country?

And is it any good?
 

I have one and have just bought another for N+1.

They are an excellent light and the standlight function works really well, as to their legal status, they are legal in Germany which seems to have the most stringent Lighting laws in the E.U. perhaps someone else could elaborate on their UK road status

[Kim]

I believe Kim has fettled a couple of dynamo powered mudguard mounted rear lights onto the baraktacycle - pixeo somethingoranothers?

Spanninga Pixeo.  They're a bit unobtanium in the UK, but are lightweight, easily mounted and pretty good light wise (in a single point source kind of way).  The dynamo version has a standlight that works as you'd expect.

I'd prefer something a bit bigger looking if it were a sole light, but mudguard mounting complicates things.  They're ideal as width-markers on the trike (I've also fitted a Smart bracket to the rear rack, so there's a blinky to distinguish it from a distant car).

[Crumbling Nick]

Is something like the Busch & Muller Seculite Plus Rear Mudguard Dynamo Standlight legal in this country?

Yes since it conforms to the German standard & is marked accordingly (K-number).
Readable explanation of the regs is on the CTC website. The specific SI is the 1994 amendment, which is not very readable.
To my surprise, mine is also marked BS6102/3, so conforms to UK standards as well.

And is it any good?

Light output is not bad. However it's nowhere near as good as 0.5w battery lamps. Optics are not up to B & M's usual standards - the beam is conical with moderate lateral scatter, so a lot of the light is wasted lighting up trees and the road. The rack mounted Toplite line plus (which I now have on the Galaxy) shows that B & M know how to do it correctly. Perhaps they assumed that a mudguard light wouldn't point horizontally (it took some effort to stop mine pointing skywards), so good optics would be wasted. Incidentally, B & M may have upgraded since 2008. That seems to have happened to the IQ Fly.

The Seculite has worked reliably in all weathers for nearly 3 years. That's better than any of my battery lamps to date.

Am trying to find decent dynamo powered rear lights that does not involve the use of a rack, would like to retain flexibility with carrying stuff using Bagmans and various Carradices, and just seems a pity not to run a dynamo powered rear light. Something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Busch-Muller-Toplight-Seatpost-Dynamo-Light-Bracket-/190452859914?pt=UK_SportsLeisure_Cycling_Bike_Lights&hash=item2c57e0040a#ht_500wt_710 negates the use of Bagmans etc.

If you're happy with the width of a lamp on that bracket, I'd recommend the Toplite line plus. I'm not sure where you'd put it when using a saddlebag or similar, though.

[Frere]

I believe Kim has fettled a couple of dynamo powered mudguard mounted rear lights onto the baraktacycle - pixeo somethingoranothers?

Spanninga Pixeo.  They're a bit unobtanium in the UK, but are lightweight, easily mounted and pretty good light wise (in a single point source kind of way).  The dynamo version has a standlight that works as you'd expect.

I'd prefer something a bit bigger looking if it were a sole light, but mudguard mounting complicates things.  They're ideal as width-markers on the trike (I've also fitted a Smart bracket to the rear rack, so there's a blinky to distinguish it from a distant car).

Kim, am guessing this is the Dyno version?

http://www.ebay.nl/itm/SPANNINGA-LED-Ruckleuchte-Pixeo-Xs-Standlichtfunktion-SB-verpackt-1-rote-LED-/320796447325?pt=Sport_Radsport_Fahrradteile&hash=item4ab0f5525d#ht_951wt_706

Frere

[Kim]

Looks like it, yup.

[vorsprung]

I've had two seculite plusses

The first one did PBP 2007 and then got mashed in a crash
The second one just did PBP 2011

I think they are great

[MattH]

Am trying to find decent dynamo powered rear lights that does not involve the use of a rack, would like to retain flexibility with carrying stuff using Bagmans and various Carradices, and just seems a pity not to run a dynamo powered rear light.

Not a very good photo of the light, but here's a B&M toplight line plus on my Roubaix (photo taken on the return leg of PBP)


The light is mounted by two strips of aluminium, which are bent around the bagman frame then drilled and bolted to clamp them tight onto the bagman frame (like a pair of P clips, not drilling or bolting them directly to the bagman at all), and the ends are bent at 90 degrees then drilled to allow the toplight to bolt to them.
The power cable is taped to the  underneath the bagman frame, running up to the saddle then down the back of the seatpost, then taped underneath the top tube to get to the front of the bike. I keep meaning to cut the cable under the saddle and put a connector in there to allow quick removal of the bagman without needing to remove the cable.

The only problem with this setup is that a heavily loaded bag can bounce enough on the bagman to cause the light to hit the mudguard.

You may notice that the light on the seatpost is obscured by the bag - that's actually just a storage position for it when the bike is in this configuration; there is a Hebe mount on the bagman between the dynamo light's aluminium clamp strips , but I tend to keep the battery light on the seatpost as it is only for backup use and is less likely to be knocked and damaged there.

If you are interested, I'll take a close up photo of the clamping arrangement tomorrow in the light.

[andrew_s]

I use a B+M seculite + on both my dynamo bikes, and find them very good.
For those occasions where more light is required, I use a Smart R1 attached to the Bagman support loop as shown below (lamp clip only). It's easy enough to just reach back and turn it on without stopping.
The bracket is a J82S, the black rubber is a buffer to protect the mudguard when a heavily laden bag causes bounce on rough ground.

[Frere]

All very helpful answers, and yes please to MattH's offer to take a close up photo.

Many thanks for the replies.


Frere

[MattH]

Here it is. Underneath the tape on the horizontal bits are a nut and bolt to clamp it tightly to the bagman; the tape is there to minimise any rubbing from the bolt heads (although I don't think they actually get anywhere near the bag - it was put on months before I put the battery light mount there).
The tape you can see on the bagman itself is holding the electrical cable underneath the rack where it won't get abraded by the saddlebag. The aluminium was just a strip I got from B&Q for a couple of pounds.
I'm probably going to invert the clamps to raise the light a bit higher away from the mudguard, though that will mean having to move the battery light to one side or fettle a mount for that too - I quite like it being symmetrical above the dynamo light.

[Frere]

Thanks for that MattH, your explanation now makes sense, and a very tidy, neat set up it is:)

Frere

[RJ]

I have a Seculite Plus on the winter bike.  Personally, provided your front lamp will suck up all 3w dynamo output, I would stick to independent, battery-operated rear lamps.  In my experience, there's too much to go wrong (in a wet commuting climate, anyway) with the connections between front and rear lamps to make it a worthwhile setup in the long term.

Others' MMV, natch.

[Crumbling Nick]

I too have reservations about the connections & the vulnerability of the wiring for dynamo rear lamps. Aplogies for repetition, but my Seculite has been more reliable/durable in all weather "commuting" than any battery lamps to date. That's a big reason why I no longer use a battery lamp as the primary rear light.

Personally, provided your front lamp will suck up all 3w dynamo output, I would stick to independent, battery-operated rear lamps.

Apologies for the selective quote, but that looks like a questionable assumption.

A 3w dynamo is designed to provide enough current for a 2.4w front lamp & a .6w rear lamp. The early B & M LED rear lamps drew so much less than .6w that expert opinion was that a 2.4w dynamo was beter than 3w^*. My observation of the Seculite's light output suggests it uses much less than half a watt, and so has minimal effect on the output of the front lamp.

Is there any evidence that a front lamp can "suck up all 3w", i.e regardless of the presence of a rear lamp? I know that 2 lamps in series will use 4.8w or more, but that's not the same thing.

* Posted on either rbt or bikecurrent, probably by Andreas Oehler (Schmidt engineer), but I can't find the post quickly.

[Kim]

I really don't get what the big deal is about the wiring to rear lamps is.  For the most part, the issues are exactly the same as those of wiring for front lamps, computer sensors and even gear and brake cables.  Given good quality cable (I highly recommend the Schmidt-style rubberised coax stuff), proper attention to the connections and sufficient cable ties / tape to secure it, there's no reason it shouldn't give years of flawless service.

Doing an aesthetically pleasing job on a DF bike can be tricky - it helps to have a cable-coloured frame, and to follow a bowden cable where possible.  I favour underneath the downtube and bottom bracket rather than along the top-tube; it hides more of the cable, and sensor wiring may be heading in that direction anyway.

The most annoying thing is running cable along the length of a mudguard, for which I've found insulating tape (preferably wider than normal) to be adequate if applied carefully (and replaced if the adhesive gets tired).  Scotchlite tape is retroreflective and has an even better adhesive.  If you keep the run short and go down the first available mudguard stay you may be able to avoid tape entirely.  Does anyone else have any cunning methods that are worth sharing?  I know some mudguards have conductive strips built in for the purpose...

[GavinC]

No-one's mentioned the other B&M mudguard mounted dynamo rear light yet - the 4D Lite Plus. I think this was the predecessor to the Seculite although it's still available to buy. I picked mine up secondhand for about a tenner. 

It has 4 LED's all pointing in different directions, rather than the single LED in the Seculite, and it's quite a bit heavier. Having said that, I've had no problem with it mounted on an SKS Chromosplastic P45 mudguard. Being a Plus, it has a standlight though it's not the brightest I've seen. The light also has a neat little bumper around it so that you don't smash it when you inadvertantly reverse into something hard 

[vorsprung]

Cheapest places to get a seculite

shop list price shipping total bike24 11.9 5.95 17.85 rosebikes 15.9 5.05 20.95 starbike 12.5 15 27.5 sjs 30.64 2.5 33.14 bikeplus 25.99 0 25.99 dotbike 22.5 0 22.5 As usual the Germans are the winners Couldn't see any on ebay

[GavinC]

Cheapest places to get a seculite

shop list price shipping total bike24 11.9 5.95 17.85 rosebikes 15.9 5.05 20.95 starbike 12.5 15 27.5 sjs 30.64 2.5 33.14 bikeplus 25.99 0 25.99 dotbike 22.5 0 22.5 As usual the Germans are the winners Couldn't see any on ebay

The Bike24 and Starbikes prices are in Euro's too, so would be a bit less in Sterling.

However the Seculite that BIke24 sell for €11.90 and Starbikes sell for €12.50 is the standard version w/o standlight. The Seculite Plus with standlight is €17.90 and €14.90 from Bike24 and Starbikes respectively.

[RJ]

I really don't get what the big deal is about the wiring to rear lamps is.  For the most part, the issues are exactly the same as those of wiring for front lamps, computer sensors and even gear and brake cables.

All I can say is that this is not my experience (at least in terms of keeping everything working in a Scottish winter climate on a commuting bike in daily use

  Given good quality cable (I highly recommend the Schmidt-style rubberised coax stuff), proper attention to the connections and sufficient cable ties / tape to secure it, there's no reason it shouldn't give years of flawless service.

  Poor quality materials and workmanship are possibilities  - but not ones I'll admit to unconditionally 

Doing an aesthetically pleasing job on a DF bike can be tricky - it helps to have a cable-coloured frame, and to follow a bowden cable where possible.  I favour underneath the downtube and bottom bracket rather than along the top-tube; it hides more of the cable, and sensor wiring may be heading in that direction anyway.

  Personally, aesthetics bother me less than functionality - my cable runs along the top tube and the top of the mudguard, to keep it out of road spray as much as possible.

The most annoying thing is running cable along the length of a mudguard, for which I've found insulating tape (preferably wider than normal) to be adequate if applied carefully (and replaced if the adhesive gets tired).  Scotchlite tape is retroreflective and has an even better adhesive.  If you keep the run short and go down the first available mudguard stay you may be able to avoid tape entirely.  Does anyone else have any cunning methods that are worth sharing?  I know some mudguards have conductive strips built in for the purpose...

See above.  Plus self-amalgamating tape to taste ...

All great when it works - but too much of a faff to troubleshoot on a regular basis (n.b. my front lamp and computer need minimal intervention) 

[CommuteTooFar]

My older Seculite is nearly ten years old.  If you are as clumsy as me I would recommend the optional cage to protect the lamp.

I like the the fact that it connects directly to an IQ Fly or IQ CYO front light allowing both to be switched on and off from the a single front switch.  (The standlight persists when the system is turned off).


 

[Biggsy]

The climate shouldn't be relevant once all your connections are waterproofed.  I used to have a lot wiring problems - but that was when I was a young boy, just twisting wires together and using insulating tape.

[Kim]

Personally, aesthetics bother me less than functionality - my cable runs along the top tube and the top of the mudguard, to keep it out of road spray as much as possible.

I consider road spray to be a complete non-issue to the middle of a run of cable (though obviously it's a good idea to put connections somewhere that minimises exposure).  The rear light and computer^[1] wiring on my Dawes are normally encased in mud around the bottom bracket - it's not going to hurt the plastic insulation.  What puts me off running cables along the top-tube is the greater risk of mechanical damage when lifting/locking up the bike.

Admittedly my bikes get it relatively easy - I don't do a lot of mileage in winter, and they live indoors, so things don't stay wet for very long.

All great when it works - but too much of a faff to troubleshoot on a regular basis (n.b. my front lamp and computer need minimal intervention) 

Where does it tend to fail, OOI?




_{[1] Combined wiring loom for speed and cadence sensors on the chainstay, measuring the speed from the rear wheel for simplicity.}

[MattH]

I consider road spray to be a complete non-issue to the middle of a run of cable (though obviously it's a good idea to put connections somewhere that minimises exposure). 

You are right on that. What puts me off using the down tube/bb for a cable run is that it "feels" more exposed and prone to physical damage, compared to under the top top which is protected inside the triangle. I'm happy to concede that it's not a major likelihood though.

What puts me off running cables along the top-tube is the greater risk of mechanical damage when lifting/locking up the bike.

On both the bikes I have done this to, the cable is taped to the underneath of the tube along the full length of the tube using insulating tape that matches the bike's colour, making it invisible except for where it pops out at the end. Both also have the rear brake cable running under the top tube, so it is a naturally protected position and the electrical cable can then leave the top tube wrapped around a brake cable.
I tend to lift the bikes using the seat tube rather than the top tube (as they are better balanced there, and I can get a grip lower on the bike so I don't have to walk with my arm bent). I tend to lock them using a D lock around the seat tube and rear wheel, so again the lock won't damage the dynamo cable.