Author Topic: Please switch off all electronic equipment....  (Read 8884 times)

Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2011, 06:38:15 pm »
someone stood up when we were still taxiing on Friday. Stewardess very firmly told him to sit down, and the pilot jammed the brakes on. Bloke falls forward into seats in front.

On this morning's flight we were told not to get out of our seats until given permission to do so. I have never seen such an obedient plane full of passengers. I think the cop with a big gun who boarded as soon as we parked had something to do with that!

Two blokes were collared and taken off the plane. No idea what for...
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2011, 06:42:23 pm »
If planes were really this vulnerable to electronic equipment wouldn't terrorists have twigged to this?

It's a heck of a lot easier to get a couple of phones on board rather than several pounds of explosives.

Oh, I don't know - I got a huge amount of interest at security when I was carrying a dozen phones in my carry-on earlier this year !
And owning more than one SIM is a twig to security interest in some countries. There have been several cases where mobile phones have been used as triggers for bombs, though I haven't heard of any on a plane.
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Biggsy

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Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2011, 06:42:42 pm »
I'm too terrified of the g-forces or possibility of crashing during take-off and landing to fiddle with my equipment then anyway.
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Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2011, 06:43:27 pm »
My mentor always leaves his laptop on hibernate when he gets on & off planes cos he CBA waiting for it to boot up everytime.

'Hibernate' is actually off though.  It dumps the contents of memory to disk and slurps it back on bootup to restore state.  'Standby' maintains power to essential components, and is extremely unlikely to cause interference.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2011, 06:45:22 pm »
someone stood up when we were still taxiing on Friday. Stewardess very firmly told him to sit down, and the pilot jammed the brakes on. Bloke falls forward into seats in front.

I do wait until the plane has stopped taxiing and permission has been given, I'm not quite that bad! Sounds like a pre-arranged procedure between the pilot and the cabin crew. If so, good for them.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2011, 06:46:52 pm »
Not so good for the people in the seats he fell into, though.
I do not ride a great big Mercian, gangster tanwalls, fixed cog in the back.

Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2011, 07:35:11 pm »
.
snip

I've tried switching my phone on during a flight and there's no signal and no GPS either.

So why? Is it something to do with what might happen in the event of crash?

My brother left a GPS switched on (inadvertently) during a flight and it recorded every inch of the journey - including reversing off the gate, the flight and driving around on the tarmac at both ends ...  the ascent stats were "interesting" !

Rob
I'll dig out the 3D image of a takeoff from Gatwick on Google Earth if you like - it's quite impressive.
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Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2011, 08:15:48 pm »
Mobile phones can get a signal when airborne, but only to about 4,000'.  I can hear the sound of a phone trying to get a signal through my headset in the cockpit as I come into land  - it is similar to noise a mobile phone can make next to television.  It doesn't seem to be that common now, maybe people are obeying the rules or maybe smartphones don't make the same kind noise.

You can definately get a GPS signal when airborne.  Every modern airline uses it. While we don't use it, the GPS altitude seems pretty stable.

Being slightly pedantic, there are legal reasons why you cannot use your mobile in flight.

1.   All aircaft have radio licences detailing what transmitters and receivers they have - your mobile is not on that licence.

2.  Pilots have Radiotelephony Operators Licences, which allow them to use said radio equipment, you probably do not.

While the risk is very small, I wouldn't like to loose all flight instruments just after take off on a dark windy night because someone left their phone one.

Biggsy

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Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2011, 08:21:35 pm »
You can definately get a GPS signal when airborne.

Presumably the crew get it via an aerial built in/on to the aircraft?  The question is: can a passenger sitting in the metal tube get a GPS signal on an ordinary handheld device?  I'd guess holding the device up to the window would help, if it's possible at all.

(Already answered by Jade).
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Jaded

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Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2011, 08:25:05 pm »
You can definately get a GPS signal when airborne.

Presumably the crew get it via an aerial built in/on to the aircraft?  The question is: can a passenger sitting in the metal tube get a GPS signal on an ordinary handheld device?  I'd guess holding the device up to the window would help, if it's possible at all.

See my reply earlier  :)
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Biggsy

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Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2011, 08:27:35 pm »
See my reply earlier  :)

Oh, yeah, sorry.  Nice.  :thumbsup:  I'll take my Edge 605 next time I fly.  I'll be a good boy and have everything turned off for takeoff and landing though.  I'm too busy soiling my pants then anyway.
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Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2011, 09:29:25 pm »
Well, I only tried it once and I couldn't get a signal  :'(
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

plum

Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2011, 09:46:53 pm »
They did this one on mythbusters. Took the most powerful device that you might legitimately carry on to a plane journey and amplified it some more, chose the most sensitive equipment that is likely to appear in a regular aircraft cockpit then amped up the sensitivity on that. And nothing happened, myth busted. So nothing can happen. Mythbusters says so, ergo it's fact.

Feanor

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Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #38 on: December 14, 2011, 09:50:12 pm »
And GPS recievers don't transmit.
( Unless you count any Local Oscillators in superhet recievers, if they even use these. )


Biggsy

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Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #39 on: December 14, 2011, 09:59:01 pm »
They did this one on mythbusters. Took the most powerful device that you might legitimately carry on to a plane journey and amplified it some more, chose the most sensitive equipment that is likely to appear in a regular aircraft cockpit then amped up the sensitivity on that. And nothing happened, myth busted. So nothing can happen. Mythbusters says so, ergo it's fact.

Except a pilot tells us he can hear your phone in his headphones.

And GPS recievers don't transmit.

You know that, I know that, but do the trolley dollies know that?
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border-rider

Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #40 on: December 14, 2011, 11:16:14 pm »
It doesn't seem to be that common now, maybe people are obeying the rules or maybe smartphones don't make the same kind noise.

3G phones don't. That distinctive rhythmic noise you could hear is the handshaking of a GSM phone.

Karla

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Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #41 on: December 14, 2011, 11:16:27 pm »
If planes were really this vulnerable to electronic equipment wouldn't terrorists have twigged to this?

It's a heck of a lot easier to get a couple of phones on board rather than several pounds of explosives.

Try googling "HEMP terrorism".

Yes yes I know, it sounds like a bunch of hippies attacking people with knitting needles!

Zipperhead

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Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #42 on: December 14, 2011, 11:51:12 pm »
Earlier this year, Boeing found that their Honeywell cockpit display screens blanked out during testing prior to installing in-flight Wi-Fi.  Needless to say, installation of the Wi-Fi was put on hold.

This stuff happens.  You're probably okay leaving your phone on, but do you really only want to be probably okay?

would you like to play with the engine data while your flying (as a passenger)
Our son does know who Boz Scaggs is, we've done ok as parents.

Rhys W

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Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #43 on: December 15, 2011, 12:10:16 am »
You can definately get a GPS signal when airborne.

Presumably the crew get it via an aerial built in/on to the aircraft?  The question is: can a passenger sitting in the metal tube get a GPS signal on an ordinary handheld device?  I'd guess holding the device up to the window would help, if it's possible at all.

See my reply earlier  :)

Yeah, that was impressive. My Garmin struggles to get a reading in the house, it only seems happy stuck to the car windscreen. I'm guessing the signal may be stronger the higher you are.

Reminded me of a clubmate who posted his Garmin data of the Port Talbot Wheelers 2-up 25... but left it on with the bike on the roofrack as he drove back home along the M4. The police officer who he was giving a lift to said nothing about the 85mph average speed...

Jaded

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Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #44 on: December 15, 2011, 12:40:38 am »
They did this one on mythbusters. Took the most powerful device that you might legitimately carry on to a plane journey and amplified it some more, chose the most sensitive equipment that is likely to appear in a regular aircraft cockpit then amped up the sensitivity on that. And nothing happened, myth busted. So nothing can happen. Mythbusters says so, ergo it's fact.

Except a pilot tells us he can hear your phone in his headphones.

And GPS recievers don't transmit.

You know that, I know that, but do the trolley dollies know that?

Well, we come back to the fact that planes do not often fall out of the sky (without identifiable causes) and when you take that fact into account along with what I said earlier, that it cannot be a problem.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #45 on: December 15, 2011, 07:13:10 am »
Earlier this year, Boeing found that their Honeywell cockpit display screens blanked out during testing prior to installing in-flight Wi-Fi.  Needless to say, installation of the Wi-Fi was put on hold.

This stuff happens.  You're probably okay leaving your phone on, but do you really only want to be probably okay?
This is on the 787.  Boeing try different IFE concepts with the launch of each new model.  Having ditched the wireless IFE and put in a wired system Boeing found they SAVED weight. 787 gives a whole new level of potential interference problems because it is a plastic airplane not aluminium.

jogler

  • mojo operandi
Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #46 on: December 15, 2011, 07:30:17 am »


Well, we come back to the fact that planes do not often fall out of the sky

my bold

ONLY ONCE

Karla

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Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #47 on: December 15, 2011, 03:58:45 pm »
787 gives a whole new level of potential interference problems because it is a plastic airplane not aluminium.

Indeed it does.  The costs of developing and testing EMC-compliant aircraft is climbing steeply due to this, plus the ever-increasing amount of electronics used by both the aircraft and their passengers.  Lots of money is currently being thrown at reducing these costs through increased use of simulation, by e.g. the EU.  This is all at the same time as other people are trying to produce wireless aircraft, for various benefits that may/may not (as you point out) be beneficial.   

border-rider

Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2011, 05:17:11 pm »
787 gives a whole new level of potential interference problems because it is a plastic airplane not aluminium.

Military aircraft, as you can imagine, have to go through quite stringent EMC testing, especially after an incident in which one Phantom blew another off the deck of an aircraft carrier when the ship's HF radios were activated.

They have to do the testing with full weapons systems and with a pilot so that manual over-ride of anything that happens that shouldn't is possible.  The test procedure I've seen involves shining  a lot of very interesting and high-power stuff at the aircraft and seeing what happens. In plastic aircraft on the pointy end of a megawatt or so of EIRP, the pilots can get a bit angsty about what effect it might have on them.

Re: Please switch off all electronic equipment....
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2011, 05:39:43 pm »
I don't really care when individual actions are a risk only to the individual. However, I get really pissed off when somebody is arrogant and selfish enough to think that they know best and thus to potentially put my life at risk.  I might be liable to stampy or shuvel like tendencies if polite requests are ignored.