Recommend me some wheels for all year commuting, audax and club rides

[mrcharly-YHT]

This stuff about the weight is a bit of a red herring if your real aim is to do all year riding and audaxes.  If the wheel is lighter it will wear out quicker

He speaks with great wisdom, does this one.

TT wheels are not uber-light; they are aerodynamic. Light wheels only really matter for stop-start riding.

[tatanab]

I have Open Pro, Chrina, Exal XR2 and DRC ST17 at the moment.  All similar profile.

Adtually I tell a lie, I have Chrina but will not use them.  I built a Chrina based wheel a few weeks ago and then stripped it immediately.  I found it simply too difficult to fit my usual Continental or Michelin tyres (at least when new).  This would be something to consider in a commuting rim at least because I'd not want to be struggling to refit a tyre.  These are tyres that I do not need levers to fit or even to remove on Open Pro.  The wall of the Chrina is 2mm greater in diameter than the Open Pro.  ST17 is slightly bigger than Open Pro so I cannot remove the tyre without levers but can fit it easily enough.  Yes I know very  well how to fit tyres properly, I've been doing it 50 years.  Chrina and Exal XR2 are comparatively cheap rims so do not have the cosmetic finish of Open Pro or ST17.

So my input would be - forget Chrina, probably forget Mavic because of reputed quality issues in recent years, consider ST17 except that Spa do not do them, consider Exal XR2 which Spa supply.

[spenceey]

Spoken to Just Riding Along this morning. Their advice was to go for the velocity A23 build, as they supply a lot of these for audax and the purposes I've outlined they are stronger than Open Pros but the weight difference is small.

Ultegra on 32h Velocity A23 with black DT Comp spokes comes in at £284 which seems like a great deal. The Ultegra on Chrina was £250 so for a significant weight saving £30 isn't much. £276 was the price for Mavic OP Ultegra so again not much more.

[Biggsy]

This stuff about the weight is a bit of a red herring if your real aim is to do all year riding and audaxes.  If the wheel is lighter it will wear out quicker

[pedant]Not if the bits that wear are the same.[/pedant]

[Tewdric]

If you're bothered about weight but want durability Open Pro Ceramic are the way to go.  (They are changing over to a new version now though and stock seems hard to get hold of).

If you want a lightweight rim and don't mind paying more for quality look at DT Swiss RR465.

Beware of retailers saying they supply a lot of product x for your purpose - they will recommend what they get the biggest markup on. 

I have never seen anyone use velocity rims on audax rides but have seen plenty using Open Pro and Rigida Chrinas.

Having a quick look around the bits to make Open Pro / Ultegra wheels with Sapim race spokes are  a tad under £220, so the quoted price doesn't look all that competitive.  If they're using genuine DT Competition spokes that would account for an extra tenner.  Bits for Ultegra/Chrina/Sapim are just over £170.

Do shop around - Big Al at Wheelcraft has a good reputation and Spa's wheels are well thought of.  The quality of build is critical by the way - that's where the wheel's strength comes from. 

[spenceey]

If you're bothered about weight but want durability Open Pro Ceramic are the way to go.  (They are changing over to a new version now though and stock seems hard to get hold of).

If you want a lightweight rim and don't mind paying more for quality look at DT Swiss RR465.

Beware of retailers saying they supply a lot of product x for your purpose - they will recommend what they get the biggest markup on. 

I have never seen anyone use velocity rims on audax rides but have seen plenty using Open Pro and Rigida Chrinas.

Having a quick look around the bits to make Open Pro / Ultegra wheels with Sapim race spokes are  a tad under £220, so the quoted price doesn't look all that competitive.  If they're using genuine DT Competition spokes that would account for an extra tenner.  Bits for Ultegra/Chrina/Sapim are just over £170.

Do shop around - Big Al at Wheelcraft has a good reputation and Spa's wheels are well thought of.  The quality of build is critical by the way - that's where the wheel's strength comes from.

My problem is I'll be riding them almost every day. Mavic OP seem great but not for something I'd ride everyday of the year in all weathers.

Velocity A23 are used widely for Cyclecross and people rave about them, I thought that if they can hold up during CC surely they'll be more than tough enough for audax/ commuting?
I know It's more about the build quality hence why I'm having them built rather than doing them myself. I'm sure I could go for OP and have years of usage out of them without trouble. However I'm going with the ones which seem tougher and I can't afford to have a broken rim on my hands.

[Biggsy]

My problem is I'll be riding them almost every day. Mavic OP seem great but not for something I'd ride everyday of the year in all weathers.

Tewdric mentions the ceramic version of the OP.  The braking surfaces have a ceramic coating that basically doesn't wear out and so will last as long as you want them to.  They need to be used with special brake pads.  Some users say braking is good, some say braking is not so good.  (I haven't tried them myself).

[spenceey]

Oh I know. I also thought you couldn't get hold of the Ceramic versions any more? Only the CD version?

[Biggsy]

Oh I know. I also thought you couldn't get hold of the Ceramic versions any more? Only the CD version?

I didn't know that.  Check via Google Shopping and eBay if anyone's got new old stock if they've been discontinued.  Otherwise I agree with you that Open Pros won't be a good idea for the bike in question.  You might as well go for the Chrinas that are recommended a lot on this forum.  The ease of fitting tyres should be a secondary consideration once you've had some practice with the particular rim/tyre combination.

[spenceey]

My other concern was the weight of the Chrina rims. I can't seem to find a definite answer as to the weight. Most of the places online (apart from Spa) quote the wheels at 590g which is a lot. If someone could confirm that the weight is less than that I'd probably change my mind.

[Biggsy]

But it's worth having extra weight for the sake of durability and relatively low cost.  You could claw some weight back by using lightweight (but durable-enough) tyres - such as Vittoria Rubino Pro or folding Panaracer Paselas - and ultralight inner tubes.

[spenceey]

These http://www.alexrims.com/product_detail.asp?btn=1&cat=1&id=49 are the rims I've been using for the last 2 years and have held up well. I've had 2 spokes break in that time, been touring on them twice and cycled 40 miles commuting 3 days a week. They've got cheap Shimano 2200 hubs on the moment which are surprisingly doing OK.

I thought as I'm buying a new frame I'd also like some new wheels more suited to the type of riding I do and ideally weighing less than my current wheels but still be just as strong. The Velocity A23s look ideal for this. They are wider and weigh 450g as opposed to the 470g of my current rims.

[eck]

I had Ambrosio Excellence on my audax bike: I got 20,000 miles out of them before I replaced them with another pair last year. And the old ones are still doing service on my winter bike.
Built by Big Al, of course.

I've another pair, with Open Pros and Hope Hubs. The hubs are lovely, the rims are wearing much more rapidly than the Ambrosios. I got the rear wheel free from a mate, who didn't like the noise the freehub made. He asked if I could make it run more quietly. Adding more grease helped a bit, but not enough for him. 'Ach, just keep the f*ing thing, then!' He sold me the front wheel for £30. Not a bad deal IMHO.

Personally, I'd go for Excellence rims on Hope hubs.

[vorsprung]

Chrina and Exal XR2 are comparatively cheap rims so do not have the cosmetic finish of Open Pro or ST17.

This is quite true.  Open Pro are welded at the seams, wereas Chrinas are pinned.

Can we just discuss what a "strong durable fast" rim is?

1) Strong - should survive pothole hits, carrying 20 stone rider, panniers full etc
2) Durable - braking surfaces do not wear
3) Fast - light wheel that will accelerate well.  I am ignoring aerodynamics

Open Pro are stronger and faster than Chrinas but not as durable. 

If you add the 4th factor to the list, price, you will realise that no one rim can do it all.  In fact if a rim came along claiming to be all those things and cheap then I would not believe it.  Chrinas are half the price of Open Pros

In your deliberations you have also ignored spokes.  Double or triple butted spokes will be slightly lighter and (debatably) give a better ride and be stronger

[Biggsy]

In your deliberations you have also ignored spokes.

Sapim Race and DT Competition have been mentioned, and these are double butted.  I hope plain gauge won't even be considered for a second.

It's fatigue resistance rather than strength that is the issue.  Double or triple butted are more fatigue resistant than plain.  Though I have used triple butted (DT Alpine III, on rear drive sides), they are heavier and more expensive than Competition and Race, and are probably OTT anyway for Spen.

[Tewdric]

Open Pro are stronger and faster than Chrinas but not as durable. 

Rim choice has very little to do with wheel strength in these cases.  The strength is all in the build. 

Before we start that debate in this thread (no problem if we do but I'll probably split it), here's a little light reading:

http://www.icelord.net/bike/thebicyclewheel.pdf

Oh I know. I also thought you couldn't get hold of the Ceramic versions any more? Only the CD version?

They are said to be bringing out a version 2.  I'm sure someone must have stock if you search around!

[Hummers]

Another vote for Chrinas here.

I have been using them for the last 5 years and wouldn't change.

I would also recommend double-butted spokes as normal spokes break (for me).

H

[Biggsy]

Some of the wheel strength comes from the rim, but I agree that it shouldn't normally be a big consideration, and Open-Pro-like rims are strong and stiff enough for most uses for most riders.  But Chrina-like rims are preferable in this case for durability.

Regarding weight: don't think of the Chrina as being heavy; think of the Open Pro as being very light.  A bike for which durability is important does not need very light rims.  Yes rotating weight is more relevant than static weight, but it's not as a big deal as you're thinking, Spen, with the kind of weight differences in question.

[spenceey]

Balls all these recommendations flying around.

I find it hard to believe that my current cheap wheels do most of what I want but I'd like a lighter more durable pair and It's hard to find. I was sold on the Chrinas until the weight issue was raised that then lead me to the Velocity A23's which now people are saying go with the more durable.

[TheLurker]

In that case, let's confuse matters even more for you....  Mavic Aksiums.   *evil cackle*

[Biggsy]

I'd say you've got enough info to make your own decision now, Spen.  Sleep on it, then your mind will be clearer.

[spenceey]

I'd say you've got enough info to make your own decision now, Spen.  Sleep on it, then your mind will be clearer.

I'd agree with you normally but I'm crap at making decisions. Took me well over 2 months to decide on a ti frame of about 3. I just need to be told I need X rims.

I suppose I don't want to spend a lot of money only to find out 6 months down the line their shot and I'll be coming back here whining.

[Tewdric]

That's cycling fora for you

Another thought - if performance is important to you and you go with Open Pros, and they wear out more quickly, it's not a big deal getting replacement rims laced on the the same hub and spokes.

[Hummers]

Balls all these recommendations flying around.

I find it hard to believe that my current cheap wheels do most of what I want but I'd like a lighter more durable pair and It's hard to find. I was sold on the Chrinas until the weight issue was raised that then lead me to the Velocity A23's which now people are saying go with the more durable.

What did you expect when you ask a varied selection of complete strangers the same question? 

I've never heard of the the Velocity A23s (they may be great for all I know) and although I know Mavic Open Pros are often used by Audax riders, have never ridden on them myself.

What I do know is that to a degree (and regardless of the rim used), the way the wheel is built, the spokes that are used, the terrain you will be riding on and the weather you will be riding in will have the most appreciable effect on the lifespan/durability of the finished article.

H

[Biggsy]

Another thought - if performance is important to you and you go with Open Pros, and they wear out more quickly, it's not a big deal getting replacement rims laced on the the same hub and spokes.

Or to do it yourself if you know how to true a wheel.  The actual lacing is almost a no-brainer, since the spokes are just swapped over one at a time.

BUT, Open Pros aren't great value for money any more, IMO, so I find myself in the odd position of suggesting that Spen doesn't get Open Pros, despite being a fan of them myself.  I stocked up with spare rims when they were a lot cheaper.