Author Topic: Recommend me some wheels for all year commuting, audax and club rides (Read 26927 times)

zigzag · « **Reply #50 on:** 03 January, 2012, 02:31:39 pm »

or, as TheLurker mentioned, get two pairs of mavic aksiums (if you shop around you can get a pair for £120), one for audax and commuting with appropriate tyres and wider range cassette, antother for club runs with faster tyres and close ration cassette. you will have the second pair as spare, in case something happens to the first. aksiums are pretty light, cheap and reliable, and they're easy to mount tyres on.

spenceey · « **Reply #51 on:** 03 January, 2012, 02:38:04 pm »

Spoke to Spa at lunch the Chrina with 105 weighs 2240 grams and a whopping 46g less with the ultegra hub! 2kg seems like a lot for wheels though, or am I wrong?

bloomers100 · « **Reply #52 on:** 03 January, 2012, 02:45:11 pm »

I've just received my Open Pros with DT swiss 370 hubs from Rose bikes and they way 2kg together without skewers or cassette. I weighed them myself.

Somnolent · « **Reply #53 on:** 03 January, 2012, 03:01:44 pm »

Quote from: spenceey on 03 January, 2012, 02:38:04 pm

Spoke to Spa at lunch the Chrina with 105 weighs 2240 grams and a whopping 46g less with the ultegra hub! 2kg seems like a lot for wheels though, or am I wrong?

IIRC my Excellence rims on Hope hubs (combination also recommended by Eck earlier) came in somewhere between 1.8 kg and 1.9 kg... anyway slightly more than the Fulcrum 7s that came as standard on my Ti bike; but like spenceey durability was more important to me than the last few grams.... and they were 32/36 spoke rather than the 20/24 of the Fulcrums and common on many lighter wheelsets.

vorsprung · « **Reply #54 on:** 03 January, 2012, 03:38:50 pm »

Quote from: spenceey on 03 January, 2012, 02:38:04 pm

Spoke to Spa at lunch the Chrina with 105 weighs 2240 grams and a whopping 46g less with the ultegra hub! 2kg seems like a lot for wheels though, or am I wrong?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The weight isn't that important. If you have wheels/tyres that are 100g lighter then YES! you will notice the difference when doing stuff like accelerating out of corners BUT overall it is small potatoes. The difference in weight will give you a warm feeling but it will make a tiny, miniscule difference to real speed.

If you are really concerned there is a great web site http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings.php

tiermat · « **Reply #55 on:** 03 January, 2012, 03:42:32 pm »

Now these are nice wheels.... http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=180791

If I had the dosh I'd snap these up right now

Usual disclaimer.

spenceey · « **Reply #56 on:** 03 January, 2012, 03:46:27 pm »

So the weight saving if I went for the velocity A23 build would be almost half a kilo (400g) that's going to be noticeable.

spenceey · « **Reply #57 on:** 03 January, 2012, 03:49:52 pm »

Quote from: tiermat on 03 January, 2012, 03:42:32 pm

Now these are nice wheels.... http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=180791

If I had the dosh I'd snap these up right now

Usual disclaimer.

Lovely wheels those.

mattc · « **Reply #58 on:** 03 January, 2012, 04:12:03 pm »

Quote from: Biggsy on 03 January, 2012, 11:05:05 am

Quote from: vorsprung on 03 January, 2012, 09:43:43 am
This stuff about the weight is a bit of a red herring if your real aim is to do all year riding and audaxes. If the wheel is lighter it will wear out quicker

[pedant]Not if the bits that wear are the same.[/pedant]

This raises so many questions, which I suspect Mavic etc are unlikely to answer clearly:
- Are the 'wearing' bits the same material (ignoring ceramics)?
- Are they thicker, thus lasting longer?
- When two rims are worn to their limit, is the weight difference the same as when new?
etc ...

spenceey · « **Reply #59 on:** 03 January, 2012, 04:16:23 pm »

Quote from: tiermat on 03 January, 2012, 03:42:32 pm

Now these are nice wheels.... http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=180791

If I had the dosh I'd snap these up right now

Usual disclaimer.

But would these be ideal for what I want to do with them? Ceramic is much more hard wearing. But what about the bladed spokes?

Somnolent · « **Reply #60 on:** 03 January, 2012, 04:28:46 pm »

IIRC Chris Kings are noisier than Hopes.

spenceey · « **Reply #61 on:** 03 January, 2012, 04:34:22 pm »

The noise is better though. Not as noticeable. They also look great for the price.

Biggsy · « **Reply #62 on:** 03 January, 2012, 05:17:05 pm »

Good quality bladed spokes are great in nearly every way, except for the price. They are so fatigue resistant that you can use the one set for the rest of your life. I got Sapim CX Ray for one of my front wheels. I couldn't afford to get them for the rear! Also, being not the world's most skilful wheel builder, I was worried about not getting high-enough tension from them, but I suppose that should be no problem for a good builder.

2 kg is NOT heavy for a pair of wheels. It is light for your type of bike. It's not very long ago that it would have been considered light even for a racing bike.

DATA FROM MY LITTLE BROWN BOOK...

My best wheels (without skewers):
Front (Chorus, Open Pro, 32 CX-Ray, alloy nipps): 728 grams
Rear (Chorus, Open Pro, 36 Alpine III (DS)/Laser (NDS)): 946 grams
Total: 1674 grams

Another one of my front wheels (Chorus, Open Pro, 32 Race, brass nipps): 764 grams.

But remember these aren't as durable as you want. An extra 200g per wheel WOULD NOT REALLY MATTER. Make up for it by using lighter tyres than you originally had in mind, with ultralight inner tubes. DT alloy nipps on front and rear NDS will be ok if lubed with anti-seize. You'll save 50g from using ultralight instead of standard inner tubes alone.

Warning: weight-weenieism leads to madness. You'll end up spending £3 to save one gram; changing steel bolts to titanium, aluminium or even nylon ones; and drilling holes in everything, including your head to release excess brain gravy.

zigzag · « **Reply #63 on:** 03 January, 2012, 05:41:39 pm »

Quote from: Biggsy on 03 January, 2012, 05:17:05 pm

Make up for it by using lighter tyres than you originally had in mind, with ultralight inner tubes.

light tyres wouldn't by my choice for all-round use. even in an audax, a single puncture will cancel out all the imaginary (or real) speed benefit. and if it happens in the wrong time / inclement weather..

Biggsy · « **Reply #64 on:** 03 January, 2012, 05:51:30 pm »

Light tyres can be reasonably puncture resistant when weight is saved at the casing, sidewalls, and beads, rather than much at the tread. A kevlar puncture resistant belt needn't weight much either.

The folding version of the Panaracer Pasela, for example, is in the racing tyre category for weight, but in the light-touring tyre category for practicality. Some versions of the Vittoria Rubino Pro are also light for the amount of practicality.

spenceey · « **Reply #65 on:** 03 January, 2012, 06:09:40 pm »

Are the ck wheels good for what I want to do though? The ceramic rims are the toughest aren't they? Which makes them perfect for commuting and audax.

PloddinPedro · « **Reply #66 on:** 03 January, 2012, 08:24:15 pm »

I've used Open Pro Ceramics a number of times and I have to say they can be a mixed blessing. Braking is good to start with but as time goes by, the ceramic can glaze and eventually the braking efficiency drops below the plain alloy equivalent. I've had it become so bad that I've had virtually no brakes in extreme wet although to be fair, those rims were pretty old and it was before I learnt about the glazing issue. Mavic even market a soft carborundum block to address this point but in my experience, it's more trouble than it's worth to keep having to grind through the glaze on a regular basis and I have in the past, junked rims for this reason even though they weren't worn out otherwise.

I've also had Open Pros regularly split on me before I learned that they are sensitive to too much tension and somewhere else on the forum someone recently pointed out that Mavic state that "the recommended tensions must be respected". Mavics have acquired a reputation for having let quality slip since they switched manufacture to the Far East and my very well respected LBS reckons the Ambrosios (Excellight for lightness, Excellence for something a bit more robust) are a better bet.

I'd certainly agree with other postings above with regard to the wisdom of going for 36 spokes - you'll never notice the difference in the ride but 36 is definitely more robust than 32. The Ultegra hubs are a first class piece of kit and will give very good life provided you give them an annual service, which is pretty simple to do at home. Servicing hubs yourself isn't always straightforward, even with cassette type designs, especially the rear hub; there are several different ways of putting cassette hubs together and some require special tools, whereas to tried-and-tested cup-and-cone is pretty straightforward, all good stuff for a bike that gets a lot of use and needs to be reliable.

I've not used the Velocity rims but I note this extract from http://www.dcrwheels.co.uk/products/manufacturers/ :- "Velocity rims and hubs: Made in Australia. A fantastic company making some of the best products on the market at great prices. ......... Some of their fixed gear based products have established quite a reputation here so potentially their presence here will grow."

I guess you pays your money and makes your choice ....

spenceey · « **Reply #67 on:** 03 January, 2012, 08:59:05 pm »

Thanks mate. I think I'm gona go for the open pro ck build as its such a good price. The ceramic will hopefully have plenty of life in it and ill use the correct pads all the time. When it comes to replacing them ill move over to velocity.

If I don't like the ck for any reason. They seem perfect for me then ill go for the velocity build I think.

Doesnt the ck wheelset look perfect for what I want?

PloddinPedro · « **Reply #68 on:** 03 January, 2012, 10:18:01 pm »

Quote from: spenceey on 03 January, 2012, 08:59:05 pm

......Doesnt the ck wheelset look perfect for what I want?

Technically you could say they are overkill in the bling direction for your requirements, but at the price, I don't think you can go far wrong, assuming they're put together properly (and given the cost of the original components, I think it's unlikely the chap who built them would be the sort not to build them right).

Given the reputation of Chris King stuff, it's pretty unlikely you'll need to go inside them for a very long time, so the servicing point won't trouble you soon. My comments about the Open Pro ceramics was just to strike a word of caution; they aren't the be-all and end-all that some people imagine. Just keep them as clean as you can (as with any rim) and look out for the glazing. In any event, they won't glaze sooner than a plain alloy rim will wear through, so you'll easily get the same life out of them. And when they do eventually expire the rest of the kit will be good for more than one set of replacement rims.

And they do look pretty!

spenceey · « **Reply #69 on:** 03 January, 2012, 10:24:27 pm »

Thanks Pedro thats the kind of answer I was looking for! Very constructive. I never had my eyes on blade spokes before but since these wheels seem to be very well built if I can put up with the hub noise I think I'm on to a winner, even if they do look quite bling! My first concern was that of blade spokes not being as strong as convenional spokes.

Also your right about the hubs hopefully they'll last me years!

Hummers · « **Reply #70 on:** 03 January, 2012, 11:38:18 pm »

If you are weighing up performance vs weight then perhaps Audax is not for you?

What about Sportives or road races? These are the events where (as I understand) weight vs component performance is (as I understand) jolly important.

Just a thought.

H

GrahamG · « **Reply #71 on:** 04 January, 2012, 08:41:23 am »

Quote from: Hummers on 03 January, 2012, 11:38:18 pm

If you are weighing up performance vs weight then perhaps Audax is not for you?

What about Sportives or road races? These are the events where (as I understand) weight vs component performance is (as I understand) jolly important.

Just a thought.

H

There's definitely room for more weight weenies in audax - it'll form a nice juxtaposition with our usual ramblings of how a saddlebag/light/route sheet holder was codged together

vorsprung · « **Reply #72 on:** 04 January, 2012, 08:57:34 am »

Quote from: GrahamG on 04 January, 2012, 08:41:23 am

Quote from: Hummers on 03 January, 2012, 11:38:18 pm
If you are weighing up performance vs weight then perhaps Audax is not for you?

What about Sportives or road races? These are the events where (as I understand) weight vs component performance is (as I understand) jolly important.

Just a thought.

H

There's definitely room for more weight weenies in audax - it'll form a nice juxtaposition with our usual ramblings of how a saddlebag/light/route sheet holder was codged together

Consider the Mille Cymru. I did. Loosing a lot of weight makes a tiny difference even on a long ride with lots of ascent.

If the OP fancies Velocity A23 wheels he should go ahead and get them. But don't imagine it will lead to any kind of physical advantage. The mental game is a different matter however

spenceey · « **Reply #73 on:** 04 January, 2012, 09:11:49 am »

I honestly wouldn't consider myself a 'weight weenie' at all. After all I've gone and brought a light touring/ audax bike. Surely I would have brought a CF or TI road bike? I just feel that as I've got the money to spend on a nice set of wheels I don't want them to weigh what I consider a lot.

I've set myself the challenge to do more audax rides during 2012 but this wheelset will be mostly used for commuting and weekend rides. The CK wheelset ticks all the boxes for this, sure enough the blades look a bit more blingy than I would have chosen but the ceramic rims and hub have way more advantages.

Funnily enough my next problem is looking for tyres.

Biggsy · « **Reply #74 on:** 04 January, 2012, 10:24:27 am »

One can wander into the weight weenie way even when you start off with an average bike: in the form of upgrading madness. Just warning you.

The mindset is not to have the lightest bike possible, but to make the sort of bike that you want and can afford as light as possible. (I have been there and done that).

Well done for making a decision on the wheels. For tyres, start off by reading up on the various versions of Vittoria Rubino Pro. I'd get 25mm if I were you. 23mm are too harsh (and not fast) on worse than average road surfaces. 28mm on a long-distance bike, in my opinion, is only worth it if you'll be riding on a lot of bumpy paths or badly broken-up tarmac, and of course are heavier than 25mm tyres of the same models.

Recommended inner tubes: Schwalble Extra-Light, Michelin Ultralight, Vittoria Ultralight. An 18-23mm size can be used in 25mm tyres, at the expense of slightly less durability and air-holding ability, compared to the same model of a larger size.