Author Topic: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?  (Read 10003 times)

Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« on: 28 January, 2012, 09:16:14 pm »
Hello YACF!

Sorry if this has been discussed at length before, but if it has I couldn't find it.

Long story short - the last couple of years I've really enjoyed getting back into cycling, starting by commuting to work and then incorporating some leisure rides. With one toddler and now a new baby I've started looking at cycling options. A simple scenario is the four of us travelling to a nearby beach with gear for the day. It would be approximately 20 miles total, with a couple of minor hills.

Having seen the various cargo bike options I got quite enthused... then I saw the prices. Realistically, do the advantages of one of the cargobikes warrant the extra expense over a decent "normal" bike with a child seat and a cargo trailer? Bear in mind, I won't need to carry 100kgs of stuff (just lunch, some towels and a bucket and spade) and the latest addition could be taken by Mrs Wilf Roberts in a child seat on her bike.

Thoughts?

Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #1 on: 28 January, 2012, 09:25:37 pm »
Personally, I wouldn't go for child-seat + trailer.

I would put the children in a trailer (and you'll be able to fit about 30l of gear in with them) and fit panniers on the bike.

Trailers are very versatile. I've had a couple of them, plus trikes.

I wouldn't put a newborn in a childseat, they simply don't have the neck strength. I'd put them in a trailer, and if they are absolutely newborn, then buy a car seat (which is good to have anyway), and strap that into the trailer. Much safer, and when they fall asleep you can just lift them out in the car seat.
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Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #2 on: 28 January, 2012, 09:27:50 pm »
^^^
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Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #3 on: 28 January, 2012, 09:41:31 pm »
Yeah - I wouldn't put a baby in a childseat until they can sit up by themselves reliably.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #4 on: 28 January, 2012, 09:54:43 pm »
Thanks for the replies so far!

To clarify - I won't be putting baby in a child seat, at least not yet. Number one son was pretty happy from age one, I'll use that as a rough guide.

Mrcharly, would you avoid the childseat/cargo trailer combo purely for the centre of gravity or other reasons?

And finally, can I assume that the lack of cargobike talk means I'm not way off by excluding them on cost?

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Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #5 on: 28 January, 2012, 10:01:50 pm »
A recent article in the Telegraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/green-motoring/9032822/Cargo-bikes-and-tricycles-for-the-school-run.html

I don't know how good/rubbish the info and advice is.
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Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #6 on: 28 January, 2012, 10:08:21 pm »
A recent article in the Telegraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/green-motoring/9032822/Cargo-bikes-and-tricycles-for-the-school-run.html

I don't know how good/rubbish the info and advice is.

Cheers for that. It kind of illustrates my point - £1800 for a Bakfiets (the cargobike of choice for the reporter). A pretty nifty hybrid and trailer could be had for less than half of that, and strikes me as more practical and versatile...

Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #7 on: 29 January, 2012, 10:04:36 am »
Dr Mekon has a cargobike blog. He's a big fan.

bakfiets.co.uk

Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #8 on: 29 January, 2012, 11:02:58 am »
I seem to recall that Wendy (who is a him!) looked at trailers vs child seats from a safety point-of-view for his children, and came to the conclusion that a trailer was safer (I forget the exact details, but a trailer is likely to be given more space by car drivers, and in accidents occupants have had virtually minimal effect, even when the collision has involved a car, the trailer was essentially just pushed along by the car).

I suspect I'd also agree with that from a stability perspective as well, since all child trailers I've ever seen have been two wheelers, so it'll happily just sit there when not in motion, unlike a bicycle with a child seat.

Whilst a good cargo bike would be an option, it's never going to be a cheap one.  A Bakfiets or even Yuba Mundo isn't a trivial investment.  A sort of compromise could be the Xtracycle route, which converts a conventional bicycle into a cargo bike (and the Surly Big Dummy is a non-conversion version of that).

There are also electric bike options for Cargo Bikes, there's an eMundo, and there used to be the StokeMonkey kit for Xtracycles (although they seem to have hit cost problems).  Either option, a cargo bike, or trailer, does leave you with a lot more weight to move around, and some additional assist isn't necessarily a bad thing!

(Oh, and Kidstuff may be a more useful place to look for information on this sort of thing).
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Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #9 on: 29 January, 2012, 11:43:19 am »
Mrcharly, would you avoid the childseat/cargo trailer combo purely for the centre of gravity or other reasons?

That, and the 'child falls asleep and head collapses on you' thing. It's a real pain.

Child trailers can often be bought second hand - kids grow out of them and parents either want the storage space back, or decide to go for a cargo trailer.

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Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #10 on: 29 January, 2012, 01:02:56 pm »
The choice is not the machine itself, but it's use.

The Cargo bikes are fantastic, but big, bulky, difficult to store and have limitations in efficiency when compared with an ordinary bike.

They will do the job better though.

If it is purely for the school run and large weight loads then fine, but the ability to detach the trailer and use it a s a nipy agile daily use bike is a massive advantage for the combination.


I Would list your use and then see whether the need for general use outweighs the advantages of load carrying.



Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #11 on: 29 January, 2012, 02:05:24 pm »
Waves

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Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #12 on: 29 January, 2012, 02:24:57 pm »
What do the kids enjoy most?  Being in the front?

The Telegraph article says you'll get 75% of the cost of a cargo bike when selling it on eBay after five years.  You might get even more if selling through this forum instead.  But I certainly wouldn't get a cargo bike if it was to be my only bike.
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Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #13 on: 29 January, 2012, 02:59:15 pm »
... But I certainly wouldn't get a cargo bike if it was to be my only bike.

That's a very good point, a trailer is much more likely to be easier to store than an additional bike.  For all the advantages of cargo bikes, weight is rarely one of them, and even though geraldc did cycle his on the DunRun a couple of times, I think that was more from necessity and the sheer ludicrousness of doing it (iirc, his good bike was stolen shortly before the first time he used it for that ride).
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #14 on: 29 January, 2012, 05:17:58 pm »
Trailers are fantastic - I get heavy use out of my Burley D'Lite, partly as a stroller (I have the extra wheel), and partly as a bike trailer. It's done a lot of shopping, both with and without junior.

If I had the room and money, I think I'd go for a cargo bike like a bakfiets though. I don't actually have any experience on one, but I love the idea, and I'm sure it'd be faster than riding with a trailer which is just a huge airbrake really.
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Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #15 on: 29 January, 2012, 07:04:46 pm »
Rather than regurgitate what I've written before, here are some posts that might be useful. There's loads more on my blog (there's no ad-words on there, so I hope nobody thinks I'm promoting it for my own ends).

Why you shouldn't buy a cheap one - http://measured-response.com/bakfiets/?p=8
What is great about a front loader - http://measured-response.com/bakfiets/?p=12
Gazelle Cabby versus  DeFietsfabriek 995 versus Winther Kangaroo - http://measured-response.com/bakfiets/?p=29
Electric bakfiets - http://measured-response.com/bakfiets/?p=271

We've tested/borrowed

Gazelle Cabby
Winther Kangaroo
Christiania Light
Christiania Large
Zigo Leader
Taga
Onderwater kid-first tandem
Burrows 8-freght
various e-bike bakfiets.nl cargobikes

We've owned and sold

Croozer737 trailer
WeeRide midmounted seat
DeFietsfabriek 995 2 seater bakfiets
Bakfiets.nl Cargobike 3 seater bakfiets
Madsen KG271 4 seater longtail

We own

Chariot something or other 2 seater trailer (it's the one below the one with aero rims - about £700 new)
Bakfiets.nl NN8D Cargotrike (4 seater, but can be a 6 seater)
Circe Helios tandem (telescopic seatpost, works as a kidback) with a co-pilot kiddy seat

If you are interested in any of those, happy to say what I thought. FWIW, the only one we took a hit on when selling was the Madsen. The two bakfietsen in particular cost us next to nothing due to euro/pound issue between buying selling. The market for 2nd hand bakfiets.nl bikes is ridiculously strong, partly due to their quality, partly because Henry of Workcycles does a great job of promoting them online, and partly because the UK distributor stands by them so well/the factory is amazing on warranty issues.

Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #16 on: 29 January, 2012, 08:33:53 pm »
Thanks to everyone who's chipped in so far, particularly Dr Mekon with those links (first one answered a question I was going to ask about those "cheap" bakfiets on ebay!).

Personal responses so far:

Cargo trikes: very expensive and I don't like the sound of the tipping feeling some describe.
Bakfiets-style two-wheelers: have gone up in my estimation thanks to Dr Mekon. Still seem eye-wateringly expensive though!
Child trailers: still considering. Mrs Roberts is NOT keen, doesn't like the idea of the precious cargo being low and to her mind vulnerable. Evidence here seems to suggest the contrary, so this may be an option.

Where I'm at: well, I have a "nice" bike, a lovely steel-framed audax that served me as a commuter and does the long hilly rides round here beautifully. So I have theoretical (if not financial!) freedom to get something else as my utility/cargo/child transport. I take the points against child seats, but so far it's worked well with my (now) three year old. I also don't encounter the lack of communication Dr Mekon describes with his little 'un, my lad loves being in the seat and we certainly feel connected. For now I'm fortunate to have a sort of test mule in that I have a hack bike (urban hybrid thing bought for £40) and an old cheap child trailer on semi-permanent loan from a friend. The other day I stuck this together with my boy's Hamax Sleepy seat on and went to pick up 30kg of coal - we had a great time and for a first experience of trailer carrying it was good, particularly considering neither bike not trailer were of any decent standard. Oh, and my hub gear is bust and down to one cog!

I'll keep on with this for a few months and see how I get on. Thanks for all the input!


Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #17 on: 29 January, 2012, 08:45:57 pm »
I've left out one huge advantage of the trailers and cargo bikes (the ones that have full covers) over child seats; weather protection. When it is sluicing it down, the kids are tucked away safe, warm and dry.
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Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #18 on: 29 January, 2012, 09:00:21 pm »
Trailers are the super safe option, IMO. Translation of a German safety review. There's no problem being low - drivers see them perfectly well. I don't use a flag with mine. Drivers see paint lines on the roads, they see low sports cars, and car head- and tail-lights, which are often quite a bit lower than a trailer.
Your Royal Charles are belong to us.

Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #19 on: 29 January, 2012, 09:13:25 pm »
It's much the same as with recumbents, there's no evidence to suggest that their relatively low position makes them harder to see, and indeed, most cars are shorter (vertically) than cyclists, and other car drivers see them well enough!  Height alone isn't necessarily an important factor in being seen.

Both recumbents and bicycle trailers are unusual enough, that car drivers don't automatically ignore and forget about them, so they generally get more room on the roads.
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #20 on: 29 January, 2012, 09:15:42 pm »
I know that, you know that. Could I convince my wife to let me put our boys in a trailer? Only ever in the middle of nowhere (aka Blaxhall). Our Chariot gets used one week a year, whereas our cargotrike mixes it up with the tourist buses and the congestion in central Cambridge week in week out without her batting an eyelid. It might only be perceived safety, but for me it's the difference between riding and driving.

Also, I couldn't fit in a trailer

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/kOTmNQH80N4&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/kOTmNQH80N4&rel=1</a>

Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #21 on: 29 January, 2012, 09:40:37 pm »
She wants to dispute a German safety review? Walks away.
Your Royal Charles are belong to us.

Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #22 on: 29 January, 2012, 10:08:19 pm »
She wants to dispute a German safety review? Walks away.

Wendy, have you met people?

Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #23 on: 29 January, 2012, 10:14:11 pm »
I know that, you know that. Could I convince my wife to let me put our boys in a trailer? Only ever in the middle of nowhere (aka Blaxhall). Our Chariot gets used one week a year, whereas our cargotrike mixes it up with the tourist buses and the congestion in central Cambridge week in week out without her batting an eyelid. It might only be perceived safety, but for me it's the difference between riding and driving.

Also, I couldn't fit in a trailer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOTmNQH80N4

POTD,  for the video which is the coolest thing I have seen in ages.

Re: Cargo bike vs bike + trailer?
« Reply #24 on: 30 January, 2012, 07:39:44 am »
She wants to dispute a German safety review? Walks away.

Wendy, have you met people?

Of course you are right - but I am not very good at people skills. I loved your video, that was very cool!
Your Royal Charles are belong to us.