Author Topic: DNF'ing a Perm  (Read 4109 times)

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #25 on: February 29, 2012, 02:40:42 pm »
With a GPS DIY you can enter up until a few minutes before the 'Event'.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #26 on: February 29, 2012, 02:46:46 pm »
With a GPS DIY you can enter up until a few minutes before the 'Event'.
Why not wait until you've finished? Enter at leisure, then just add 48hours to all the timestamps.

Could save you £4.

(Of course if it's the end of the month, you might fail your RRTY).
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #27 on: February 29, 2012, 03:16:21 pm »
a clarification from the AUK committee (after discussion at one of their committee meetings) would be helpful.

We have had the following, though perhaps it wasn't very prominent:

Arrivee number 100 (Spring 2008), page 2, about a quarter of the way down Richard's report on the minutes:

"AUKs riding Perms are requested to confirm actual dates to organisers before the start of the ride, if not previously given. (Text,e-mail or voicemail will suffice.)"

That was presumably the result of discussion at the 12 March  meeting... the actual Minutes of 12 March 08  are on the website:

"OFFICERS’ REPORTS. JW reported on a couple of new events and queried whether on DIY Perms riders should specify the distance in advance. It was generally agreed that any pre-agreed distance must be completed in full, and JW is to issue a reminder to riders to notify the Org of the intended date and distance of the ride to ensure the spirit of Audax is obeyed."

Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #28 on: February 29, 2012, 05:10:07 pm »
Yes, that is good.  It would be better if the content were prominently displayed on the introductory pages of the Permanents section of the website, and also perhaps in the Guidance Notes in the Handbook.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #29 on: February 29, 2012, 05:16:55 pm »
p11 of the Handbook:
Permanents
 ...
Many organisers will not insist on knowing the date of your ride, which offers the opportunity of riding in good weather.
...


!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #30 on: February 29, 2012, 05:24:44 pm »
With a GPS DIY you can enter up until a few minutes before the 'Event'.
Why not wait until you've finished? Enter at leisure, then just add 48hours to all the timestamps.

Could save you £4.

(Of course if it's the end of the month, you might fail your RRTY).

I've found it easier just to drive the route, eating a lot at each control.  ::-)
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
  • Chartered accountant in 5 different decades
    • CET Ride Reports and Blogs
Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #31 on: February 29, 2012, 10:19:14 pm »
It seems to me that discretion from the organiser should be allowed on perms.  If a rider DNFs and wants to have another go - it saves me a lot of time bother and effort for them just to let me know when they are ready for a second attempt.  If they get round in time then they have still completed the ride and would get a brevet, and points for any awards. 

If I decide to forego the £3 minus the cost of postage and brevet card then surely that is my business.

Eddington Numbers 125 (imperial), 168 (metric) 518 (furlongs)  111 (nautical miles)

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
  • Chartered accountant in 5 different decades
    • CET Ride Reports and Blogs
Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #32 on: February 29, 2012, 10:24:07 pm »
Going back to the original question - I've DNFed a perm only once - a dinner dart to York when it was -3 at 10pm and I was riding through the night.  I felt very happy to find the appropriately named "Angel" in Market Harborough and sink a couple of beers 185km into a planned 500km ride.  That's much nicer than the two times I've packed on a calendar ride.

There was a postscript to this.  I'd warned the organiser that I might have to change my Dart route because of the inclement weather (one of my control towns was cut off for several days).  I completed a 200km route from Market Harborough to York the next day and still qualified for a Dart.
Eddington Numbers 125 (imperial), 168 (metric) 518 (furlongs)  111 (nautical miles)

slohill

  • still at it
Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #33 on: February 29, 2012, 10:56:30 pm »
"It seems to me that discretion from the organiser should be allowed on perms.  If a rider DNFs and wants to have another go - it saves me a lot of time bother and effort for them just to let me know when they are ready for a second attempt.  If they get round in time then they have still completed the ride and would get a brevet, and points for any awards"

Surely this shows determination in the face of adversity to pick youself up and start again----and surely determination is a desired attribute within the Audax ethos?
Organiser of   "Tour of Berwyns" & Panorama Prospect (June 6 2020)

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #34 on: February 29, 2012, 11:32:26 pm »
I used to have a tear stained denmead 600 perm brevet with about 1000km worth of riding on it from three failed attempts (one solo, two in company). I was looking forward to handing it in for validation, instead I've lost the damn thing.

To me, *that* is 'the spirit of audax', (completing your objective, that is, not losing your brevet card).

mikewigley

Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #35 on: March 04, 2012, 07:14:11 am »
My own take on this is that, for my Perms, you must tell me the ride date before you start, by email or text (or even write to me by snail-mail!) - even if it is just seconds to go.

This notification isn't for my benefit (chance are I won't pick up that text or email until you are well into your ride, or several days later).  Rather it just waves the start flag for that particular event.  Afterall, you can't define a DNS or DNF if there isn't an S.

A DNS would be further notification that the ride is off, sent before your originally planned start obviously.  For a DNS you can have another go on another day free of charge.

If you DNF you need to send another entry.  However, this would probably be free of charge if you can reuse the original route sheet and brevet card, as there would be no cost to me.

I prefer people to have a collection of entered Perm cards sitting there, possibly for years, rather than getting urgent entries for a Perm to be ridden at short notice.  Please don't assume that I sit at home with nothing better to do than popping off Perm cards in the post, and it sometimes takes me days before I happen to go past my nearest post box anyway.  You do need to be aware that, while old Perm cards never expire, they can become out of date, so I make my route sheets available online.

slohill

  • still at it
Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2012, 02:08:27 pm »
Re: the organisers collection of outstanding perm brevet cards---I am quite happy to have a number of entries outstanding, but do scrap all unused entrants' forms at the end of the Audax calendar year.  This is because a) entry forms can change b) insurance cover can change and c) good housekeeping.

Bearing in mind all the previous comments on this thread, would it make sense to have a "valid until" statement on perm brevet cards??? (and for those who wish it, a "please inform organiser by email your intended ride date".  I am not in favour of this latter suggestion, but other organisers are).
Organiser of   "Tour of Berwyns" & Panorama Prospect (June 6 2020)

Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2012, 06:39:36 pm »
I tried my first Perm yesterday, and failed. Do I feel disheartened, not at all, just have to try again, only next time I'll try to take some company. It was the Cambrian Series 2C around west wales, a lot harder than I was expecting and took too long at the early stages, realised by the time I reached Fishguard that there was no way I could get the time back.
I thought I knew the area as its quite local to me but I went down some lovely roads and a lot of hills that I didn't know.
How does everybody else feel when the realise that they are going to DNF?
H

ahh  memories ,Cambrian Series 2C is a lovely route. if you want it on your palmarris let me know, happily ride it with your card in my pocket.

personally never DNF`t a perm but never informed the org of my intent either

Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2012, 09:37:42 pm »
Quote
ahh  memories ,Cambrian Series 2C is a lovely route. if you want it on your palmarris let me know, happily ride it with your card in my pocket.

personally never DNF`t a perm but never informed the org of my intent either
Thanks for the offer, but I'm going to give it another try but will be keeping a closer eye on the clock next time
"Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride." - John F. Kennedy

Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2012, 02:25:09 pm »
Quote
ahh  memories ,Cambrian Series 2C is a lovely route. if you want it on your palmarris let me know, happily ride it with your card in my pocket.

personally never DNF`t a perm but never informed the org of my intent either
Thanks for the offer, but I'm going to give it another try but will be keeping a closer eye on the clock next time

Was`nt really suggesting that it would be appropriate for me to ride it for you.  Just trying to point out the non-sensical reasons
behind having to notify the organiser of your start date. If you`re going to cheat, you`re going to cheat. 

It really is a nice route, im just curious to know which way round you went.  If you did the lampeter/ new quay / fishguard section first , you may have well have been alright for time, as thats the most time consuming bit.  Once you`ve left fishguard and got yourself over the preselies, which is`nt that bad in itself.  Forget the shortest route and go straight down the A40 from narberth ,through carmarthen to llandeilo. Nice quick road all the way and you would be able to pull some time back. 

Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2012, 08:35:24 pm »
Quote
Was`nt really suggesting that it would be appropriate for me to ride it for you.  Just trying to point out the non-sensical reasons
behind having to notify the organiser of your start date. If you`re going to cheat, you`re going to cheat.
And I thought you were serious  ;D
I started in Llandeilo then Lampeter etc. Made a total hash of timings, I'm usually good on timings but because I was on my own I loitered around admiring the views instead of concentrating on the job in hand.
I'd plotted a route more or less from Fishguard to Carmarthen via Meidrim and joining the A40 just to the east of Bancyfelin as I don't like the A40 at all. I knew what to expect as I've cycled the area a few times, lots of ups and downs
The reason of the OP was to find out how people felt when they knew that they were going to DNF, do you try and claw back the time to the detriment of the enjoyment of the ride or just carry on and accept it but still enjoy the wonderfull countryside that a lot of people take for granted,  myself, ok I was slightly peeved but it meant I could do the route again :)
I honestly didn't think that my post would turn into such a debate
 
"Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride." - John F. Kennedy

Hummers

  • It is all about the taste.
Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2012, 08:57:23 pm »
Quote
Was`nt really suggesting that it would be appropriate for me to ride it for you.  Just trying to point out the non-sensical reasons
behind having to notify the organiser of your start date. If you`re going to cheat, you`re going to cheat.
And I thought you were serious  ;D
I started in Llandeilo then Lampeter etc. Made a total hash of timings, I'm usually good on timings but because I was on my own I loitered around admiring the views instead of concentrating on the job in hand.
I'd plotted a route more or less from Fishguard to Carmarthen via Meidrim and joining the A40 just to the east of Bancyfelin as I don't like the A40 at all. I knew what to expect as I've cycled the area a few times, lots of ups and downs
The reason of the OP was to find out how people felt when they knew that they were going to DNF, do you try and claw back the time to the detriment of the enjoyment of the ride or just carry on and accept it but still enjoy the wonderfull countryside that a lot of people take for granted,  myself, ok I was slightly peeved but it meant I could do the route again :)
I honestly didn't think that my post would turn into such a debate


You don't come from round these parts, do you?

  :demon:

H

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
  • Chartered accountant in 5 different decades
    • CET Ride Reports and Blogs
Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2012, 09:16:03 pm »
I did the Cambrian 4D leaving Monmouth at midday - got to Fishguard at 11pm before the chippy closed and had a very nice hour's kip somewhere between the Preselies and Meidrim.  Ah... the memories.....  Being woken up by the sound of cows and having a momentary panic about being trampled.
Eddington Numbers 125 (imperial), 168 (metric) 518 (furlongs)  111 (nautical miles)

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2012, 09:09:05 am »
I honestly didn't think that my post would turn into such a debate

You don't come from round these parts, do you?

  :demon:

H

Heh heh.  Thoughts of measuring success and failure by whether you completed the course are misplaced. The only question is, should be, did you enjoy the day? As long as the answer is yes, you're ahead of the game. So what if you didn't get all the way round? The perm will still be there for next time. 

Sometimes the trick is to pack *before* things switch from challenging to miserable. See also, checking route before descending great big hill.

Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2012, 09:02:59 pm »
I attempted the 'Severn Estuary 200 Perm' today wth Bikey-Mikey but I DNF'd  :(

We started at our local petrol station and headed via Yate to the first control at Wootton Under Edge then climbed up onto the ridge road before dropping down into Nailsworth and joined the A46, a quick McD's in Stroud and onto Cheltenham for a most welcoming breakfast. I was feeling fine at this point but on heading towards the Forest of Dean into a strong headwind and then climbing upto Cinderford and Coleford brought on some uncomfortable lower back pain, this became worse as we reached Chepstow.
I decided at Aust services to head for home, allowing Mikey to continue at his own pace, thanks go to him for his patience as I struggled through the Forest.


Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: DNF'ing a Perm
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2012, 12:39:49 am »
Next time I'll offer you a better breakfast in Nailsworth  :)
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.