A 'safe' tonne of metal........

[Access Legal Guy]

...external airbags, whatever next.

http://www.theengineer.co.uk/1011995.article?cmpid=TE01

[clarion]

[Cudzoziemiec]

It seems like a good idea to me to reduce the impact of collisions.

[Jaded]

It would seem a better idea to reduce collisions.

[mrcharly-YHT]

While I agree with "Address the cause, not the symptoms", this still looks like a good idea.

Look at it this way; if 'twunt in a volvo' thinks that this will reduce their liability, and drives carelessly as a result, just think of the impact on their wallet of getting the airbag re-armed at the Volvo dealership . . .

[hellymedic]

While I agree with "Address the cause, not the symptoms", this still looks like a good idea.

Look at it this way; if 'twunt in a volvo' thinks that this will reduce their liability, and drives carelessly as a result, just think of the impact on their wallet of getting the airbag re-armed at the Volvo dealership . . .

Getting airbags rearmed can be so costly that deployed airbag frequently = write-off AIUI.

[Access Legal Guy]

I for one hope that this does not become a universal application. I can see it 'going off' for all sorts of reasons.

last week in a residential area (my own street) a football came across the road and hit the front of my car. Not so long ago a suicidal bird did the same.

[Cudzoziemiec]

It's not impact with the bonnet that triggers it.

The airbag is deployed when sensors in the front bumper register any physical contact between the car and a pedestrian or a cyclist.

[Cudzoziemiec]

It would seem a better idea to reduce collisions.

That goes without saying, and this

To complement the external airbag, Volvo has developed a collision-warning and auto-brake system, which reduces the speed of the vehicle if a collision is unavoidable and sounds an alarm to alert the driver.

goes only a very small way to addressing it, but is nevertheless another step on the way to automated driving.

[clarion]

It's not impact with the bonnet that triggers it.

The airbag is deployed when sensors in the front bumper register any physical contact between the car and a pedestrian or a cyclist.

No, it's the impact between grille and lower limbs as does it.

What is this doing in a magazine called 'The Engineer'?  It should be in Fuckwiteer monthly.

EDIT: Or FAILblog.

[Domestique]

So it lifts the bonnet at the windscreen so when the ped or cyclist to falls onto it there is more give. In some ways this sounds like a good idea. Anything to reduce serious injury has to be a good thing.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Well, the thing is;

You can educate drivers, but  you can't get educate the fuckwittery out of a fuckwit.

So these car designs can be viewed as something that:

• Tries to prevent the collision, no matter how bad a fuckwit is behind the wheel.
• Ensures that even a very minor collision will cost the fuckwit a fuckload of money

[AndyK]

Yet another excuse for motorists to absolve themselves from the responsibility of safely using a ton or so of metal in public places.

Volvo should do as much research into risk compensation.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Lower grille to smash your limbs, exactly. Those parts have already been redesigned over the last couple of decades in response to pedestrian impact standards (Euro-NCAP etc). Compare a modern car's bumper with one from the 70s - much broader to spread the impact and not just bare metal either. Those standards are still way too weak, this goes a bit further - especially as the biggest cause of injuries to pedestrians who are hit by cars though is head  and upper body injuries from the windscreen, bonnet and windscreen wipers.

I really don't see why people are treating this as a bad thing. It's not going to make collisions any more likely (unlike, for instance, seat belts) and will reduce their severity. Sure, it's addressing symptoms not causes (well, it's addressing causes too

To complement the external airbag, Volvo has developed a collision-warning and auto-brake system, which reduces the speed of the vehicle if a collision is unavoidable and sounds an alarm to alert the driver.

but the article doesn't tell us how that actually works) but it's definitely better than nothing. It's a small step in a good direction - to making collisions less injurious and even, in a small way, avoiding them.

[clarion]

Wrong.  Risk compensation says this will make collisions more likely, even if it does mitigate some of the effects (which I am very dubious about).

[mrcharly-YHT]

Yet another excuse for motorists to absolve themselves from the responsibility of safely using a ton or so of metal in public places.

Agreed.

The collision detection system should:
A) activate bonnet cushion
B) fire 12" spike through chest of driver

That's using risk compensation!

[Cudzoziemiec]

Wrong.  Risk compensation says this will make collisions more likely, even if it does mitigate some of the effects (which I am very dubious about).

I doubt there will be any risk compensation as drivers will not even be aware of it except when it goes off - unlike seat belts and helmets and comfy seats and the zillions of little things that create a nice cosy atmosphere inside a modern car.

[clarion]

I don't.  The car will be sold on its supposed safety.  Volvos are (it is a Volvo, isn't it?) and have been for years.  Knowledge of the safety on impact will have more of an impact (pun intended) on driving style than the thought of the cost of replacement/resetting.

[hatler]

There's an intersting effect here.

Risk compensation is all about the person generating the risk feeling safer, and as a result altering their behaviour, with the possible consequence being that their perceived risk is unchanged.

Now, for a tonne lump of Volvo heading along the road, what's the driver's current perception of risk (to themself) of hitting a pedestrian or cyclist ?   Pretty minimal I reckon.

If this technology is not perceived (by the driver) to benefit the driver's safety, then it shouldn't affect their behaviour.

On the contrary, if the driver perceives that hitting a cyclist or pedestrian is likely to result in a (what they would perceive to be) disproportionate expense in getting all the air bags reset, they might actually drive a little more carefully.

Or am I just being hopelessly optimistic ?

I'd far rather that the causes of collisions were properly addressed however.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Yes, Volvos are sold on safety but mainly on safety for the occupants, which this is not designed for. Moreover, it's not something the driver will be aware of while driving, unlike the seatbelts, surround sound, climate control, heated seat, cup holders, etc.

[Cudzoziemiec]

To address the earlier point about stray footballs etc triggering it; as it says in the article, it's set off by sensors in the bumper, not the bonnet. It doesn't mention if those are triggered by impact or proximity, but I'm sure we've had a thread on something similar to this and it was operated by some kind of proximity sensor - presumably similar to the parking sensors lots of cars have nowadays, or the ones that warn you to keep a big enough gap in traffic which some manufacturers are introducing. These ones somehow distinguish between people and parked vehicles, it's implied - perhaps they just detect that the close object is also moving? Or perhaps they have some kind of infrared detection?

As for the cost of rearming it, that's something that owners will have to bear (along with the other gadgets). At any rate it's not something that bothers me as a non-car owner!

[Domestique]

Its a big stretch of the imagination to believe any motorist would believe if they hit someone in their car hard enough to throw them on the bonnet they are not going to hurt them.
Once a driver has put someone on the bonnet I would imagine there is going to be quite a bit of damage to the car regardless. If air bags really makes a better situation for those being hit I am all for it.

[Biggsy]

It's rather optimistic to assume the driver will forget about the external air bags.  They'll have it in their mind, even though they're not thinking about it consciously.

It's also rather optimistic to think the cost of getting the airbag reset will be high.  The costs will come down as they get more popular.  I can hear the radio adverts now: "Bashed a ped today?  Get your system reset for only £6.99 from Auto-Baggy to get you back on the road and hitting people quickly".

[AndyK]

And then of course there's the added potential fun of turning around to that hooting "get out the bleedin' road" twat, kicking their bumper and riding off. 

[clarion]

One of the things which inhibits me when driving is the concern I might cause harm to others.  I hope (for all our sakes) that I am not the only one on the road feeling like this.  Subconsciously, if I felt that I would cause less harm, I expect that I would drive differently.