Author Topic: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.  (Read 3475 times)

BrianI

  • Is it a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Lepidopterist Man!
Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #100 on: October 31, 2020, 11:38:31 pm »
It's an Elite Novo smart something or other old school wheel on smart turbo I have. Seeing as my road bike has ye olde worlde 8 speed cassette on the rear, that was the easiest solution, rather than upgrading drive train to 9/10 speed to be compatible with a direct drive trainer.


Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #101 on: November 01, 2020, 09:39:04 am »
With the likes of Zwift and other stuff does your account allow for different users or would we be expected to run one account per user?  The obvious is simply changing the parameters every session but what a faff.
You're expected to have one account per user - a separate log in. If you want to sync with your Garmin/Strava accounts you'll need an account each.

However. Unless you're using it for structured training and want to track your improvements you could run one account, although one of you will be entirely misrepresented by your picture[1] - your avatar is gendered. You will need to update your weights every time, otherwise it will massively miscalculate your speed, as that's all about power:weight.


[1]: You're probably going to be entirely misrepresented anyway, given the limited options, mine looks absolutely nothing like I have ever looked, even as a skinny teen.

After a good hunt around I think that we'll start with Rouvy.  You can have more than one user on the account and it seems to offer more of what we are looking for.  Gets reasonable reviews too.

Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #102 on: November 01, 2020, 09:42:59 am »
With the likes of Zwift and other stuff does your account allow for different users or would we be expected to run one account per user?  The obvious is simply changing the parameters every session but what a faff.
You're expected to have one account per user - a separate log in. If you want to sync with your Garmin/Strava accounts you'll need an account each.

However. Unless you're using it for structured training and want to track your improvements you could run one account, although one of you will be entirely misrepresented by your picture[1] - your avatar is gendered. You will need to update your weights every time, otherwise it will massively miscalculate your speed, as that's all about power:weight.


[1]: You're probably going to be entirely misrepresented anyway, given the limited options, mine looks absolutely nothing like I have ever looked, even as a skinny teen.

After a good hunt around I think that we'll start with Rouvy.  You can have more than one user on the account and it seems to offer more of what we are looking for.  Gets reasonable reviews too.

Have a read here https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/03/cycling-indoor-trainer-app-guide.html. Fulgaz may also appeal - again multiple users and a free trial period. Note that it need to use BLE rather than ANT+. I’ve just pulled the trigger on a used Garmin cadence sensor 2 for that reason, and a Wahoo Tickr HRM strap. Both are dual BLE/ANT+ devices.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #103 on: November 01, 2020, 09:58:33 am »
With the likes of Zwift and other stuff does your account allow for different users or would we be expected to run one account per user?  The obvious is simply changing the parameters every session but what a faff.
You're expected to have one account per user - a separate log in. If you want to sync with your Garmin/Strava accounts you'll need an account each.

However. Unless you're using it for structured training and want to track your improvements you could run one account, although one of you will be entirely misrepresented by your picture[1] - your avatar is gendered. You will need to update your weights every time, otherwise it will massively miscalculate your speed, as that's all about power:weight.


[1]: You're probably going to be entirely misrepresented anyway, given the limited options, mine looks absolutely nothing like I have ever looked, even as a skinny teen.

After a good hunt around I think that we'll start with Rouvy.  You can have more than one user on the account and it seems to offer more of what we are looking for.  Gets reasonable reviews too.

Rouvy has just updated its list of compatible trainers ( non have been removed) . Wattbike Atoms look like being added soon.
The big issue with some trainers is the automatic climb resistance. Not an issue unless you want to race or collect badges like a scout.

Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #104 on: November 01, 2020, 10:21:59 am »
I loved the videos of rides I know on Rouvy. I may go back to it at some point, or use it alongside Zwift. Especially if we're not going out on the real roads for a bit...

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #105 on: November 01, 2020, 03:49:30 pm »
It's an Elite Novo smart something or other old school wheel on smart turbo I have. Seeing as my road bike has ye olde worlde 8 speed cassette on the rear, that was the easiest solution, rather than upgrading drive train to 9/10 speed to be compatible with a direct drive trainer.

if the cassette is 8sp shimano, then there are no compatibility issues with direct drive trainers. even a 7sp cassette could work with an appropriate spacer.

Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #106 on: November 02, 2020, 12:19:07 pm »
Wiggle's back order turned out to be a mistake and the Kickr Core has just arrived. Had fun getting that over the step.

Not that I can start to use it until Spa feel like posting me my new shimano/campag cassette.

I could rob the cassette off the Surly LHT in the mean time, that's Shimano, but I like plodding round outside on that bike during the winter so would rather not. I suspect my dislike of doing more fettling than absolutely necessary will overcome any impatience.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #107 on: November 02, 2020, 01:12:48 pm »
That's good news.  :thumbsup:


Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #108 on: November 03, 2020, 10:27:20 am »
That's good news.  :thumbsup:

It certainly is, and a nice surprise.

Happily the shimano/campag cassette arrived today and I appear to have managed to fit it (I say appear to, until the bike is on and everything is working I won't quite believe it's ok). It will surprise no one to learn that it certainly did not all slide on in one smooth go as demonstrated in the link posted upthread, but I still managed to get it on.

It didn't need the spacer that came with the Kickr Core, despite some stuff online saying that you did need it for 10-speed cassettes. I did try but there wasn't room for the smallest cog, so took it out again.

Later on I will persuade the half of the marriage who doesn't mind the massive spiders in the bike store to get the intended bike out for me for a proper test.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #109 on: November 03, 2020, 12:06:12 pm »
Later on I will persuade the half of the marriage who doesn't mind the massive spiders in the bike store to get the intended bike out for me for a proper test.

Sensible use of delegation.    :thumbsup:
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #110 on: November 05, 2020, 10:17:00 am »
Later on I will persuade the half of the marriage who doesn't mind the massive spiders in the bike store to get the intended bike out for me for a proper test.

Sensible use of delegation.    :thumbsup:

Yes I thought so too.

Thanks again for all the help in this thread, it is all working. One gear is a bit grumbly but I can live with that.

I did my first group ride on Zwift yesterday and while I got a bit more than I bargained for (despite choosing a supposedly easy 'beginners' one) I can see how it could get addictive.

One of the best things was being able to do an hour's riding of a dark evening without having to dice with Croydon's finest.

Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #111 on: November 05, 2020, 10:31:45 am »
I did my first group ride on Zwift yesterday and while I got a bit more than I bargained for (despite choosing a supposedly easy 'beginners' one) I can see how it could get addictive.

Some groups are better than others at keeping the advertised pace - one reason fboab and I have ridden with the PACK on Zwift a lot - they are assiduous at keeping the advertised pace, so if you join their beginner rides, they WILL be 1.5w/Kg.

Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #112 on: November 05, 2020, 11:01:11 am »
I did my first group ride on Zwift yesterday and while I got a bit more than I bargained for (despite choosing a supposedly easy 'beginners' one) I can see how it could get addictive.

Some groups are better than others at keeping the advertised pace - one reason fboab and I have ridden with the PACK on Zwift a lot - they are assiduous at keeping the advertised pace, so if you join their beginner rides, they WILL be 1.5w/Kg.

This was PACK - I think they did stick to the advertised pace and I did just about manage not to be dropped completely, I usually had a few of the group around me. I simply haven't ridden steadily at 20mph without stopping for an hour before! I just fancied seeing if I could seeing as it was a pretty flat course and I wouldn't have things like drivers and other hazards to worry about.

It was (in hindsight) amusing to hear them chatting calmly about cake over Discord while I huffed and puffed.

Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #113 on: November 05, 2020, 11:34:21 am »

Thanks again for all the help in this thread, it is all working. One gear is a bit grumbly but I can live with that.


Here's the thing, you actually don't need gears at all. The erg mode will keep the power required steady whatever the cadence. depending on the implementation, it can be nice to have low gears to get going, but that's pretty much it. The "slope" (resistance) adjusts to your pedalling. It does take some getting used to, you naturally want to use gears (and maybe the Zwift implementation is different? I'm not a zwifter) but you don't need to.

Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #114 on: November 05, 2020, 11:43:09 am »
The beginner's rides will have a large group of sweepers at the back to help you get back into the group if you lose the draught.

We'll look out for you next time we're on!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #115 on: November 05, 2020, 02:07:36 pm »
I did my first Zwift "event" today - a race with ABCD groups. It was a lot more then anything else I've done on Zwift, although it had same problem as real life events - if you fall off the main pack(s) the stragglers are too spread out and you end up doing most of it on your own.

Here's the thing, you actually don't need gears at all. The erg mode will keep the power required steady whatever the cadence.

ERG mode only works if you have a wattage target for it to aim at (e.g. in a structured workout). If you're riding around or racing there's no power value for it to match.

I suppose you could do something analogous by offering virtual gears or whatever, but Zwift doesn't do that.

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #116 on: November 05, 2020, 03:12:41 pm »

Thanks again for all the help in this thread, it is all working. One gear is a bit grumbly but I can live with that.


Here's the thing, you actually don't need gears at all. The erg mode will keep the power required steady whatever the cadence. depending on the implementation, it can be nice to have low gears to get going, but that's pretty much it. The "slope" (resistance) adjusts to your pedalling. It does take some getting used to, you naturally want to use gears (and maybe the Zwift implementation is different? I'm not a zwifter) but you don't need to.
You do use gears in zwift if you're riding with a group. It's not erg controlled. It only uses erg for workouts.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #117 on: November 06, 2020, 08:02:30 am »
You cannot use erg mode in a group ride on Zwift (though the leader can, I believe). The only way of using erg mode is to set up a workout and define the wattage required. That automatically makes it impossible to join a group ride. The concept of ‘group workouts’ was developed to try and marry the two ideas, but in my experience they are rather strange due to the ‘rubber-band’ effect.

In any case, even if you could set a fixed power to match the target W/kg of the group ride, the variability of the draft effect would make it very difficult to stay with the group, and once the draft is lost you’re out the back!

Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #118 on: November 06, 2020, 09:42:46 am »
I pedal corrected.

Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #119 on: November 06, 2020, 11:46:50 am »

Thanks again for all the help in this thread, it is all working. One gear is a bit grumbly but I can live with that.


Here's the thing, you actually don't need gears at all. The erg mode will keep the power required steady whatever the cadence. depending on the implementation, it can be nice to have low gears to get going, but that's pretty much it. The "slope" (resistance) adjusts to your pedalling. It does take some getting used to, you naturally want to use gears (and maybe the Zwift implementation is different? I'm not a zwifter) but you don't need to.
You do use gears in zwift if you're riding with a group. It's not erg controlled. It only uses erg for workouts.

Thanks fboab, I had been using them as normal so good to know!

Did a social meetup today (bunch of women I know from a fb group) with the 'elastic' which was much easier and still a bit of a workout.

Re: Turbo / smart trainers - what to buy and what to avoid.
« Reply #120 on: November 06, 2020, 05:51:31 pm »
You do use gears in zwift if you're riding with a group. It's not erg controlled. It only uses erg for workouts.
I don't ;D

I'm on a dumb trainer with fixed/single speed, as I've described before. I've done several group rides with my club, and it worked fine. I'm producing constant(-ish) power output, as anyone does, so it works fine. They may all be on smart trainers, requiring increased effort on simulated hills, but they counter-balance that by gearing down to reduce the effort back to roughly the previous level, so we're all the same really. They use the "elastic", as we call it, to hold the group together anyway.