Author Topic: Cross Training: Running  (Read 117107 times)

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1700 on: November 22, 2017, 11:36:24 am »
c) physio and rest (from running/5-a-side)

Back from the physio and it's looking ok.

Injury is/was almost certainly a stress fracture, but it's almost 2 months since the original injury (impact injury during 5-a-side) and 4 weeks since I stopped playing/running, so it's had a fair while to heal so far. His prodding suggests there's still some bone bruising so I remain off running/5-a-side for another couple of weeks at least, but now have a healthy list of exercises to do to get me back on track and a followup appt in 2 weeks. Luckily no tendon/ligament damage.

If all goes well I should be running again in 2 or 3 weeks, which sadly means I've still got enough time to get fit for Brighton in April and put in the graft to get the weight down (we'll see how far down from 95kg I can do in 20 weeks, under 80kg is looking unlikely). If there's no improvement in 2/3 weeks, or it gets worse, then I'll be referred back for an MRI.

First time I've used my private healthcare in the 20 or so years I've had it.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1701 on: November 22, 2017, 12:42:18 pm »
c) physio and rest (from running/5-a-side)

Back from the physio and it's looking ok.

Injury is/was almost certainly a stress fracture, but it's almost 2 months since the original injury (impact injury during 5-a-side) and 4 weeks since I stopped playing/running, so it's had a fair while to heal so far. His prodding suggests there's still some bone bruising so I remain off running/5-a-side for another couple of weeks at least, but now have a healthy list of exercises to do to get me back on track and a followup appt in 2 weeks. Luckily no tendon/ligament damage.

If all goes well I should be running again in 2 or 3 weeks, which sadly means I've still got enough time to get fit for Brighton in April and put in the graft to get the weight down (we'll see how far down from 95kg I can do in 20 weeks, under 80kg is looking unlikely). If there's no improvement in 2/3 weeks, or it gets worse, then I'll be referred back for an MRI.

First time I've used my private healthcare in the 20 or so years I've had it.


I think this sounds positive, apart from running a marathon (too long on the feet for me)

Hope all goes well

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1702 on: December 02, 2017, 05:35:08 pm »
Training for the Dartmoor Traverse still going well.  13 half marathons or more in 14 weeks.  Pace remains good.  Still have the groin niggle I've had for the last 17 years so its manageable.  Got the required kit list today.  Will have to try out the larger running rucksack next week with all the spare warm clothing and waterproofs in.  Shouldn't need them for the event but understand that they'd be essential if I got injured.  And Dartmoor is about as remote as it gets in England, especially the heart of the southern moor which we cross (on the northern moor we go up the west side over Great Links Tor)
Eddington Numbers 120 (imperial), 165 (metric) 508 (furlongs)

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1703 on: December 04, 2017, 04:19:05 pm »
Haven't been on here for a while but just to report that I completed my first marathon in October in 4h 40.

Comments...

In hindsight 13 months was not long enough to go from no running, to a marathon without having issues (I of course knew that before I started but decided to do it anyway).   I built up slowly with walking and running until had a solid 20 mile per week for a few months.   Then I started adding miles to that.   20 miles per week was fine ...as soon as I started adding mileage on to that I got niggles.   At 40 miles per week I got injured.

You read lots about speed and hill sessions.   My experience is that these are not a good idea for complete beginners.   They put too much stress on me and resulted in injury.  I would have been better off with lots of slow, flat miles and strength training before I ran a single interval or hill.   I didn't have the strength and stability in hips and ankles, or the correct form to run fast or on an incline.    Now I know my body better and have a full year of running and weights I am adding the speed and hill work and its paying off.   I have had to systematically target my weak spots every day to get to this point.

I managed to get tendonitis in my ankle which was successfully solved by strengthening, concentric moves.   I then got it in my hip which was only helped by rest.   Unfortunately this hit in the last 4 weeks of my training so my two week taper effectively became a 6 week taper.   I could cycle and cross train for 4 hours to simulate the cardio effort but I couldn't run.

I also had a baby girl (or my partner did) 8 weeks before the start which meant I didn't sleep for more than 3 hours in a row in that time.   That definitely stopped the injuries from healing.  I just didn't recover from runs like I did with 8 hours a night.

End result was me going to the start line with a longest run of 16 miles in training.   I was pretty close to a DNS but with it being my home marathon I thought I would just have a go.   I knew I could fuel and pace it well and I had multiple half marathons from earlier in my training to have some idea of what would happen...but I was in unknown territory after 16 miles.

Predictably I was strong up until 15 miles, running sold 10 min/mil, then the wheels came off.   Last 10k was awful.   Having now ran a 4h 40 marathon I can not for the life of me understand why anyone would want to do that more than once.   It was excruciating and I look at those runners who do multiple slow marathons as nothing other than self harmers!  I actually got a bit angry with all the people at the back who I was passing telling me this was their 10th marathon of the year...why??!!!  Its not like cycling where a slow ride can be fun - its horrible and punishing and the longer you take the harder it is!

I do want to do another - but I will only start it if I am confident of running a strong sub 4 hour time.   I am giving myself 2 years this time to train.  The good thing is I know where all my weaknesses are and am strength training daily to address these.   Next year I will concentrate solely on 5ks and half marathons looking for speed.   My weight was 93kg for the marathon which although came after 5 stone of loss was not nearly enough.  I wouldn't do another unless I was at least 10kg lighter.

All in all a great experience although I couldn't walk for a few days after.   All recovered now and into a more sensible 5k training program.  The one thing running has done is to kill my winter cycling....I just can not face the wet, the cold, the muck and all the clothes.   I can get my run done in a lunch hour and get similar health and mental benefits.  In general though my cycling is stronger now than it was when I did was cycling - im lighter and fitter from running alone with the occasional effort on the bike.



Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1704 on: December 05, 2017, 05:47:46 pm »
Trying to do 50/50 at the moment, which is working well except when work gets in the way.

5.6 miles last night at 7:17 pace with an hour on the turbo planned for this evening.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1705 on: December 29, 2017, 12:01:53 pm »
Jogger's nipple

Ouch
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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1706 on: January 04, 2018, 09:17:12 pm »
Packed up ready to travel down to Devon tomorrow for the Dartmoor Winter Traverse on Saturday.  It's just like a long distance cycle event, silly times of the day.   Register at 5.15am at the finish, then get bussed to the start so that you can then run back 50k over Dartmoor.  Weather looks cold, light sleet or snow and headwinds all the way.  But then there's the chance to run over the hills where I grew up.  Just got to be done.
Eddington Numbers 120 (imperial), 165 (metric) 508 (furlongs)

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1707 on: January 07, 2018, 11:15:58 am »
How did the event go, CET?

I planned on running this morning, while household was asleep. Got togged up, did pushups etc to warm up, stepped outside and did a magnificent two-step dance on the black ice. No run for me this morning  >:(

Might see if I can manage one later, if ice disappears.
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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1708 on: January 07, 2018, 08:32:01 pm »
It was icy to start.  The most treacherous bit was walking from the pick up at Meldon village hall (the finish) to the coach.  The difference with being on foot is that you can always walk along the grass verge once you feel it getting slippery. 

We set off at 7.15 am having been bussed around Devon to South Brent, with head torches.  After a short walk/run to Shipley Bridge to get warmed up, we had a short bit of icy tarmac to get onto the moor proper.  We were supposed to be going in groups with a mountain leader, but as we gained height the mountain leader was well behind.  I set off in the front group.  There were a couple of experienced ultra trail runners with GPS watches.  As we gained height the ground became increasingly frozen, which was just what I hoped.  Dartmoor can be boggy enough in the summer, let alone the winter, but with the top inch or two frozen solid it became much easier to run.  Sunrise was absolutely brilliant and we crossed the boggy ground around Red Lake and Erme Head with ease.  Then the wind picked up and the fog rolled in.  This thinned our lead group down to four: Matt, Charlie, George, and me.  Matt and Charlie were clearly highly experienced trail runners - they talked about doing the Arch - 100 miles around the Cornish coast in the winter.  Charlie had also run the Glencoe skyline, which I'd seen on television and is a reasonably elite event.  George talked about running the Bristol Ridgeway, 45 miles, over Christmas, and was going to run 125km Gran Canaria traverse in 30 hours in a month's time (which both Matt and Charlie seemed to have done).  So I tagged along, listening to them chatting and realising that there is a whole Audax-like culture for trail runners.

The first stop was at Foxtor Cafe, Princetown, which I remember from a Dartmoor Devil and a couple of other Devon audaxes.  Our entry free included cake and a hot drink.  Four of us became five as Lyndon, with his dog Bessie, joined us, he'd entered the 30km run from Princetown.

I struggled on the next section, which followed the old railway line from Princetown.  They were better runners than me and used to making up time on easy ground.  We passed a large group that were taking the 30km walk option for the event.  Fortunately the fog stayed away - she good luck for the organisers, with the wind being from the northeast the western side of the moor had better weather.  There was a short road section at Merivale and then a walk up the steep hill to the Staple Tors.  There were two problems now.  The wind had freshened to a stiff northeasterly breeze, block headwinds are just as bad for running as for cycling.  And, it had warmed up enough to thaw the ground.  So every step now sunk into the mire that is Dartmoor in winter.  So there was as much walking as there was running.  The elastic between me and the others kept stretching but I was better over the boggy ground than they were (good route finding, a longer stride so I could leap bits they couldn't, and some brute strength and ignorance).  After skirting Cocks Hill we dropped into the Tavy valley and the next check point at Lane End.  I could feel a blister and some bruising on my left foot as the mud sucking bog had loosened that trail shoe.

Here they had hot drinks and a huge range of home made tray bakes, which even El Supremo would have been proud of (my early memories of Audax are of David Hudson's catering on controls in lay-bys).  We had 15km to go. 

The next 7km were all up hill, Ger Tor, Hare Tor, Chat Tor and around the side of Dunna Goat to pick up the old mineral railway that skirts the north side of Great Links Tor, and the highest point of the run, at 552m.  It was really cold and partly frozen up there, and i needed all of my bog-hopping skills kept me up with the rest.  From there it was all down hill to the finish at Meldon Village Hall and we stayed as a group of four, Lyndon having dropped back near Hare Tor, to finish in 6hr 26min.  We were at least 45 minutes ahead of the next group of runners.

At the finish they had hot stew, unlimited tea and biscuits.  It was one of those gold-plated days - good weather, good company, a good run, great food.  I really enjoyed it.  I'd booked two nights in the Travelodge at Sourton Cross (1 mile from the finish) but I only used it for a hot shower and change of clothes and was fit enough to drive home to Basingstoke after that.

All the training worked out well.  I had planned to do a 30 mile 4.5 hour run locally before Christmas but fatigue and a chest cold ruled that out.  I think if I'd not had the bug I would have been able to run a bit more fluently in the second half and not struggle so much to keep up with the others. 

There is a summer traverse and anyone looking for a trail running experience that's just like Audax should enjoy that.  Link is attached.

https://www.climbsouthwest.com/events/dartmoor-in-a-day/

Legs are stiff today and I've got Compeed blister patches on both heels.  My left foot is slightly bruised but given the amount of rough terrain - lots of half-frozen peat bog, rocks, stones, river crossings, mud, etc, that's fine and there's nothing that will stop me running next weekend.
Eddington Numbers 120 (imperial), 165 (metric) 508 (furlongs)

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1709 on: January 08, 2018, 08:19:23 am »
A good read, thanks for that... AND WELL DONE!

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1710 on: January 08, 2018, 08:23:29 am »
Sounds fantastic. Well done indeed - just completing would be good but in with the lead group is admirable. For an event like that do you use trail shoes with plenty of padding or something with more feel?
Gold plated day indeed.

I managed 12.5km yesterday - maybe half of it on semi-boggy mud. The pavements were still icy so I opted to take a riverside route which was very chewed up. Needed to clear my head after getting some bad news in the morning.

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1711 on: January 08, 2018, 12:10:33 pm »
CET, Amazing.  I am in awe of anybody that completes something like that , let alone coming home in the lead group!

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1712 on: January 09, 2018, 05:49:03 pm »
I use Salomon Speedcross 4 shoes - so a top end trail shoe.  And for socks I use Tesco sports socks at £5 for 5 pairs. 

I take real care to make sure they are pulled tight, ie no wrinkles and I also take real care to make sure the shoes are as tightly laced as I can bear - that's partly because I have very narrow heels and if I don't get everything tight enough there'll be heel rub.  I also try to break shoes in - these Salomons are quite new and I'd planned at least one more long run in them before the event, which I didn't get to do. 

The trail shoes offer all the grip and support that I need.  If you have weak ankles (I have very stiff ankles which take a lot more abuse than many people) then you might need more ankle support - however I've also run in walking boots before and that requires a lot more what I would call Wallace in the Wrong Trousers running style - whereas in Trail Shoes I can run almost as well on the good surfaces as I would do in out-and-out running shoes.  The expert trail runners definitely exploited the ability to go fast on the easy sections so that they had more time in hand on the rough sections - just as I would exploit downhill and downwind sections on a long audax event to bank time for the tougher sections, and so trail shoes are, in my opinion, the way to go.
Eddington Numbers 120 (imperial), 165 (metric) 508 (furlongs)

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1713 on: January 10, 2018, 08:57:56 pm »
A nice report CET and interesting shoe info. I’m currently running off road in Inov8 x-talon 190s,  it do sometimes wonder if I should try something a bit more cushioned for life never runs. Otoh, I used to wear original style Walsh PB’s everywhere.

After a cold over Christmas I just got out and did 6 miles tonight, finishing off on the Nidderdale Greenway through the deep dark woods:)

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1714 on: January 12, 2018, 10:45:46 am »
A nice report CET and interesting shoe info. I’m currently running off road in Inov8 x-talon 190s,  it do sometimes wonder if I should try something a bit more cushioned for life never runs. Otoh, I used to wear original style Walsh PB’s everywhere.

After a cold over Christmas I just got out and did 6 miles tonight, finishing off on the Nidderdale Greenway through the deep dark woods:)

No gruffalos?  Or did you have a mouse?  :thumbsup:
Eddington Numbers 120 (imperial), 165 (metric) 508 (furlongs)

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1715 on: January 12, 2018, 11:35:54 am »
A nice report CET and interesting shoe info. I’m currently running off road in Inov8 x-talon 190s,  it do sometimes wonder if I should try something a bit more cushioned for life never runs. Otoh, I used to wear original style Walsh PB’s everywhere.

After a cold over Christmas I just got out and did 6 miles tonight, finishing off on the Nidderdale Greenway through the deep dark woods:)

No gruffalos?  Or did you have a mouse?  :thumbsup:

Mouse and a head torch;)

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1716 on: January 13, 2018, 10:35:11 pm »
great writeup and result cet! i did a 9km ( 8.8 on strava) tribute run today to commemorate victims of soviet aggression 27y ago. managed to go under 20min on a 5k sector and few other pb's which surprised me as i go out for a run once in a blue moon. i do miss the parkruns, but they clash with our saturday club rides and cycling obviously wins! here's top three finishers together with the ambassador.

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1717 on: January 20, 2018, 09:40:53 pm »
It's back to training.  I've abandoned plans for another Easter Arrow this year - too complicated, so am contemplating running the Basingstoke Canal.  http://www.basingstoke-canal.org.uk, which weighs in at about 37 miles.  31 miles or so of this are on a  towpath, with limited climbing, then the canal ends but there's 5 miles where footpaths broadly follow the route.  I can park the car at Basingstoke Station, get a stopping train to West Byfleet and run back.  If I get the first train of the day I should be back in time for lunch.

Today was proper hard training, 15 miles around Rotherwick and Hartley Wespall, going soft, waterlogged in places.  The mud sapped my strength, I was 20s per km slower than similar ground in the first half and then 40s per km slower towards the end.  But looking at the faces of the cyclists I saw coping with muddy potholed roads and constant drizzle, I reckon I had the best of the day.  When I looked back at my records, it was my 60th half-marathon, my first having been done at the tender age of 47.
Eddington Numbers 120 (imperial), 165 (metric) 508 (furlongs)

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1718 on: January 22, 2018, 02:15:37 pm »
Anyone tell you that you are a nutter?

I splashed out on some Hokas. Still settling in to them - they are a bit narrow fitting for me - but the massive cushioning is really helping, I don't get pain on my old injury after each run anymore (previously, after a10k run I'd be limping for the next 24hrs).
Not any faster yet but the money was worth it just to know I'm not causing more damage to an already stuffed ankle.
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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1719 on: January 30, 2018, 05:07:32 pm »
Royal Parks Half Marathon ballot is open.

https://royalparkshalf.com/

Be warned about the £57 !!!!five!!!seven! entry fee. Crikey.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1720 on: January 31, 2018, 09:32:02 am »
You also forget the £3.95 P&P, so actually £60.95 :o  However, compared to the £40 Adidas are charging for their 10 km race in Fulham in March that doesn't seem as bad. They also don't seem to be offering any good for age spaces either. Bournemouth is the weekend before are about half the cost.


My training was going well until I got hit by a ('flu?) virus over a week ago and & haven't run for nine days & counting. I was meant to be running Watford half this Sunday.
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1721 on: January 31, 2018, 09:57:32 am »
For some people a half marathon is their major goal, so they don't mind spending a chunk like that for a one off event.

I use HMs for marathon training so I either do my own (extended commute or out and back along the Thames path) or go cheap (RunThrough are £28 for the Wimbledon Common half which is 3 or 4 times a year and gives me timing, motivation, a technical t-shirt [useful as a training top], water on the way round and free photos, I don't mind paying that much for all of that).

Skiing in a couple of weeks so I need to do as much running as possible before (being careful not to overdo it and get injured) to help my legs. Starting to get to the 'fun' stage of getting back into fitness where it's not so horrible and I start to see the stats (weight, pace, HR, VO2max, etc) move in the right direction.
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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1722 on: February 02, 2018, 11:44:13 am »
For some people a half marathon is their major goal, so they don't mind spending a chunk like that for a one off event.

True true. Also, I've been thinking further about entering the Royal Parks Half because at least it doesn't involve any transport costs, unlike some races I do in places such as Milton Keynes.

I noticed it's possible to enter the ballot & pay up front. If unsuccessful in the ballot "You will be entered in the “second chance” draw for any unallocated places", which seems to good reason to pay up front. But wait, if one is still unsuccessful "You will receive a 2018 edition Royal Parks Hoodie to say thank you for your [£57] donation". (See here.)

Oh, so I pay upfront, don't get a place and my fee is donated. Hmm. If I enter I'll be opting to pay once I know the outcome of the ballot.

(From a selfish point of view it's a shame they don't offer good for age.)

What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1723 on: February 09, 2018, 10:02:46 pm »
This looks like being my next running goal.

https://goo.gl/maps/h5MoV3ySR9S2

The peninsula on which Selsey and West Wittering sit is known as the Manhood Peninsula https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhood_Peninsula

So this would be a Manhood marathon.

And all for free (except it will probably total another pair of socks given the mud on various parts of the route).
Eddington Numbers 120 (imperial), 165 (metric) 508 (furlongs)

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1724 on: March 04, 2018, 06:54:54 pm »
I ran a PB at Wokingham half two weeks ago, which was great. Since then I had a big week of training, followed by falling off a Boris bike & possibly fracturing a rib (I've not been to a doctor because there's no point so it's self diagnosed). The next day I ran a 33 km training run during which time one of my quads gave up. I've had a week of rest and today managed around 15 km of the Big Half before the same muscle gave up and I had to walk to the finish. Walking along in just shorts & a club vest was cold, but somewhere in Deptford a marshal gave me a foil blanket to help me maintain my body temperature. Still, only 37 minutes slower than Wokingham half!

I don't know if my quad injury is due to me running differently to protect my rib; whether it's caused by the pratt fall off of the Boris bike; or something totally unrelated. Still, only London marathon in seven weeks ::-).
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

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