Author Topic: Cross Training: Running  (Read 150984 times)

αdαmsκι

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1925 on: March 10, 2019, 10:21:44 pm »
Good to see you got round Greenbank and didn't get blown into the river due to the wind. My God it was bad at points.

I agree it isn't the best route - they've managed to find the dull partt of the London marathon route. However for £10 (with a community entry) and being on the doorstep what's not to like?

I, and others, were getting shouted at by marshals for running on the pavement in Wapping but there was no way I was electing to run on the cobblestones. At least the route was slightly different to last year to avoid the Rotherhihte cobbles.

Right, seven weeks until the full one.
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1926 on: March 11, 2019, 07:24:53 am »
I see you were quite quick - congratulations ...

Pleased enough with a touch under 2hrs 10, though stairs are a little difficult this morning. And I do like the fact that it finishes close enough to home to just walk back, with a rehydration stop on the way ...

αdαmsκι

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1927 on: March 11, 2019, 08:02:38 am »
We tried to get beer but the Vanbrugh wasn't open at 11.45am!  :facepalm:
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1928 on: March 11, 2019, 08:16:56 am »
Pleased enough with a touch under 2hrs 10, though stairs are a little difficult this morning. And I do like the fact that it finishes close enough to home to just walk back, with a rehydration stop on the way ...

Ha, I thought I was overtaken by someone who looks just like you at one point, but looking at the times that can't have been true (you started after me and finished after me although you were faster).

Will see if local physio has a free sports massage slot today, just to add to the pain.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1929 on: March 11, 2019, 11:59:56 am »
Will see if local physio has a free sports massage slot today, just to add to the pain.

30 minute sports massage. Oh my $DEITY. Painful but so worth it. Legs feel completely free and like I could go out for a long run with no problems (I won't obviously, supposed to take it easy).

Some choice quotes from the physio:-

"Your calves are like rocks, I could do an hour on your calves alone."

"You need to do a lot more stretching."

"Do you have a very high pain threshold? I'd expect most people to be screaming with this much pressure."
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1930 on: March 14, 2019, 08:43:41 am »

"Do you have a very high pain threshold? I'd expect most people to be screaming with this much pressure."

I think it's a cyclist thing. My physio works with a local rugby team every weekend and has remarked that if she was pressing this hard on any of them they'd be crying.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1931 on: March 14, 2019, 08:46:59 am »
How does one start running?

I've tried about 3x times over the last 2 years and each time it's the same. I get a stitch within the first mile, get tired and exacerbate my already flat-feet, leaving me in agony for about 4 days hence.

I just have cheap crappy trainers, but find it hard to believe that spanking my bike money on a good pair would drastically improve my form. I'm just built all wrong.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1932 on: March 14, 2019, 09:27:59 am »
Following advice from this very forum, I used the NHS version of Couch Potato to 5k.
It’s a very slow start but builds to half an hour continuous running in nine weeks.
Worked for me and I now really enjoy running.
"No matter how slow you go, you're still lapping everybody on the couch."

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1933 on: March 14, 2019, 09:47:17 am »
Oo-err. I was doing 30 min runs from cold. No wonder I was hurting myself.

I might give that a go, cheers.

mattc

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1934 on: March 14, 2019, 09:58:35 am »
This is a VERY common problem for cyclists - you find 30 mins of gentle exercise soooooo easy; and then you damage some bit that you never use on the bike! (generally lower leg somewhere)

(most people luckily just get VERY sore calves, which gradually goes away with each run. )
Has never ridden RAAM
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No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1935 on: March 14, 2019, 11:11:22 am »
This is a VERY common problem for cyclists - you find 30 mins of gentle exercise soooooo easy; and then you damage some bit that you never use on the bike! (generally lower leg somewhere)

(most people luckily just get VERY sore calves, which gradually goes away with each run. )

Yes, sounds familiar. A few times I've tried to start running, gone too far and too fast from the outset, and ended up in pain so given up (top tip: don't randomly decide to see if you can run 10k in one go having not done any running for about a year. Stairs might be interesting the following day. :facepalm: :hand:)

At the moment I'm going for the gentle approach: I'm using a treadmill (simply because it fits in around other gym stuff I do - time before/after classes) and making myself build up gradually. I now know I can do 5k comfortably and not feel any pain the next day, which is better than I've managed in the past (my usual thing currently is 5k on a Monday morning - I figure that if I can manage a tough spin class on Tuesday evening, I'm fine). I also do 15-20 mins of "intervals" (slow and slower! ;D) once a week. Next step is to take it outdoors and go for a bit longer - but I'll be going very slowly to begin with while I try and build up some distance. I find that if I just take it easier and slower than I feel I "should" be, it's ok.

I'm also fairly sure I'm built wrong for running - my knees cave inwards, which the internet suggests is due to weak glutes, so I've bought some resistance bands and am going to work on that.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1936 on: March 14, 2019, 05:25:43 pm »
Do treadmill runs at 2% incline. This helps you get your pacing right as the extra work required is roughly equivalent to the air resistance that you get when you run outside (which you don't get when running on a treadmill).

Build up to 2 x 30min runs, then split those into 3 x 20min runs and build up again.

Add 10% max to distance/time a week, especially if you just consider the long run. Sounds like it might be a slow progression but at 10% extra a week you can double the distance in about 7 weeks (1.1^7=1.95 to 2dp). Building up slowly allows your body to adjust to the changes that will be taking place, e.g. muscles that will be growing. One common cause of "shin splits" is the muscles in the lower legs growing faster than the sac that contains them and causing pain through pressure.

--

First run since Sunday's Big Half, had been putting off going out as I was feeling lethargic but forced myself out for a 10k loop from work. Glad I did as I felt great (despite another very windy day) and did my fastest 10k of the year.

29k long run scheduled for Saturday morning though. Ugh. Never a fan of those really long runs. Down to the river at Putney, along the river to Richmond Bridge, turn around and retrace.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1937 on: March 15, 2019, 07:26:08 am »
I did a running last night, with the C25k plan as recommended.

The nice lady on the podcast told me to focus on hitting the ground with my heel and rolling through my foot. I found that quite difficult, my tendancy is to hit the ground flat on or the ball. Is that due to cycling related tightness or me just being a gangly clutz?

The local running club were out and doing the same bits of my chosen route. I could see from my shadow how badly i run, compared to those more experienced folk.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1938 on: March 15, 2019, 09:33:05 am »
I did a running last night, with the C25k plan as recommended.

The nice lady on the podcast told me to focus on hitting the ground with my heel and rolling through my foot. I found that quite difficult, my tendancy is to hit the ground flat on or the ball. Is that due to cycling related tightness or me just being a gangly clutz?

The local running club were out and doing the same bits of my chosen route. I could see from my shadow how badly i run, compared to those more experienced folk.
Don’t stress too much about it. I’m sure someone with more knowledge will be along soon but some people rate the heel and roll technique and others don’t.
"No matter how slow you go, you're still lapping everybody on the couch."

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1939 on: March 15, 2019, 09:41:22 am »
The nice lady on the podcast told me to focus on hitting the ground with my heel and rolling through my foot. I found that quite difficult, my tendancy is to hit the ground flat on or the ball. Is that due to cycling related tightness or me just being a gangly clutz?

This is a matter of Very open and heated discussion, so the "nice lady" is being positively disingenuous.  I would go with what feels natural to you in the first instance.  Don't deliberately try to change it without reading up first, the evidence is not strong for making a transition either way. [and certainly not in the direction of deliberate heel-strike]

mattc

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1940 on: March 15, 2019, 10:16:03 am »
It's been discussed at here at some length. here is the unofficial YACF (ultra)running mentor:

My other half is a big heel striker, and a 2.30 marathon runner- if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Many people can get away with heel striking.

I can't believe anyone would actively encourage it tho- mid/forefoot running creates a million less problems. Plus the fact it's loads more efficient- elites don't heel strike.

I'm not a physio though. But as a PT specialising in rehab, I have dealt with many runners and injuries, the heel strikers have loads more of the problems.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1941 on: March 16, 2019, 01:57:18 am »
+1 for not worrying about it too much.  I'm a forefoot runner.  It does make a difference when you are buying shoes, because it can change whether you want build up and cushioning in the heel. However, when I bought my first proper pair of running shoes, the person looking at my gait said that more people think that they land mid- to fore- foot than actually do. Keep doing what you are doing and see what feels natural to you.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1942 on: March 16, 2019, 03:20:45 pm »
The 10k I'd been building up to was today (the EnduranceLife Sussex coastal trail run). It was bloody windy along the cliff tops either side of Birling Gap. One hill i was able to run up because of it :) ... but was hard into the wind. I was slightly dissapointed with my just under 1:19 time, then i looked at my GPS, which said 12.5km, and felt happier.
I enjoyed that.

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ElyDave

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1943 on: March 19, 2019, 06:35:56 am »
6.4km running round a golf course yesterday.  Forking hell that was hard work!

Partly becasue it was quite soggy in places, partly becasue my running fitness is now officially appalling.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1944 on: March 19, 2019, 08:34:43 am »
+10 for the 'don't stress about it' and 'more people strike heel than realise'.

I'm a heel striker. I used to run barefoot (no, not with funny sock-shoes, with nothing on my feet). I was still a heel striker when running barefoot. It is just my natural gait.

Forcing a gait will cause problems. 'Run gently, run kind' to enable your body to run distances. Once your body is conditioned for running, you can start to open up your gait, put in more power.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

ElyDave

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1945 on: March 19, 2019, 09:08:58 pm »
I used to do some barefoot running, now just use very minimal and zero drop shoes. I'm definitely a mid-forefoot runner, switched from heel striking when I picked up the barefooting.  I'm quite surprised you're able to run heel striking barefooted

Mid or forefoot in my experience is definitely harder on the calves, heel striking was always more of an issue for back and hips with me.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1946 on: March 19, 2019, 10:45:44 pm »
I didn't have any problem running regularly with heel striking.  Over a period of 6 years I ran a half marathon distance 70 times, 13 of which were marathons and a few were 50km+   My injury was caused by a bad step (treading on a large bottle of fizzy water when it dropped out of shopping bag) a couple of days before running on the Ridgeway, where I stretched out my stride (as I was trying to run faster) and ran more on my toes than usual.  Old damage to the big toe meant no 2 and 3 toes were slightly displaced and the combination of all of the above caused an undiagnosed stress fracture.  The moral of the story is (a) be careful running, (b) run your natural style.

When I first started running I was very careful - building up from 15 minutes in 5 minute intervals and stretching for 15 minutes after every run (which I still do). 
Eddington Numbers 124 (imperial), 168 (metric) 517 (furlongs)  111 (nautical miles)

ElyDave

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1947 on: March 20, 2019, 09:16:45 am »
I'm not surprised that people heelstrike, I'm surprised that people heelstrike barefoot.  When I switched to barefoot and minimalist running shoes I rapidly moved to a mid-forefoot striker naturally.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1948 on: March 20, 2019, 10:17:13 am »
'heelstrike' is kind of a misnomer.

When I was running barefoot, to say that any part of my foot 'struck' the ground would be wrong. 'planted' or 'rolled' would be a better description. The greatest stress was on knees, particularly downhill, as they worked to be shock absorbers.

I'm a lot older now, with aging cartilage, so when I run, I wear Hoka shoes with huge amounts of cushioning. They encourage a similar rolling gait.   
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1949 on: March 22, 2019, 12:06:10 pm »
In my lunchtime yesterday, I went to a running shop. They filmed me on a treadmill, said words while pointing at a video of my feet and then said buy either of these shoes.

I obliged, skeptically.

I can't believe the difference, honestly. I can now run straight and felt light on my feet for the first time in my life.