Author Topic: Cross Training: Running  (Read 152914 times)

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1950 on: March 22, 2019, 08:28:05 pm »
Great. I hope they take you far, or fast, according to preference. ;)

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1951 on: April 01, 2019, 05:13:52 pm »
Running not really improving at the moment, weight static around 90kg (should have been 85kg by now) so the VLM will be another ~5h slog.

Holidays in Feb and March just knocked my routine completely. Did 4 half marathons in March (all 2:15-2:20) but haven't run further than that this year (I'd usually have done 3 or 4 runs longer than HM in the run up to a marathon).

Last long long run on Saturday (usually aim for 35km but I'll probably cut it down to 28km).

Will aim to keep going over the summer and slowly get the weight down to under 76kg and keep it there (rather than yo-yo-ing back up in the winter). After April I'll be spending a lot more time in the pool and on the bike, and it's total exercise time which seems to be the biggest factor in my weight loss (I can do 10h on the bike a week quite easily, but 10h of running a week is nigh on impossible for me right now).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

ElyDave

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1952 on: April 05, 2019, 06:23:08 am »
Last week, 4km walk and 2x5km runs
This week, 6.5km and 7km runs and 5km walk.

All runs around 5min/km pace which is OK, but HR still a bit high.  At this point its a matter of rebuilding running endurance and I'd rather run twice but shorter than once longer and not be able to run again for several days
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

mattc

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1953 on: April 05, 2019, 08:18:35 pm »
My physio is mostly into running. I asked him today how many marathon-training injuries he'd seen recently ...

Part of his (long) answer was that they recommend only starting a marathon after 4 years of consistent running.


Meanwhile, this years Barkley "Marathon" was another zero finishers year. Quite a few injuries there, I suspect  ;D
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1954 on: April 05, 2019, 09:52:10 pm »
Meanwhile, this years Barkley "Marathon" was another zero finishers year. Quite a few injuries there, I suspect  ;D

The BM100 is just beyond bonkers but it is to marathon running what a 24h cycling TT completing 400+ miles is to a gentle 80km social cake and tea club run.

I'd be tempted to try just 1 lap of the BM100 if I ever sort my weight and running life out. The full 5 laps is just stupid.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

ElyDave

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1955 on: April 06, 2019, 04:40:55 pm »
Meanwhile, this years Barkley "Marathon" was another zero finishers year. Quite a few injuries there, I suspect  ;D

The BM100 is just beyond bonkers but it is to marathon running what a 24h cycling TT completing 400+ miles is to a gentle 80km social cake and tea club run.

I'd be tempted to try just 1 lap of the BM100 if I ever sort my weight and running life out. The full 5 laps is just stupid.

You'd have to make two laps to make it really worthwhile.  It'd be interesting to see how much slower I am over 50 miles under those conditions vs the others i've done
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

mattc

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1956 on: April 06, 2019, 07:13:38 pm »
Well apparently 20 hours is pretty respectable for 2 laps!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

ElyDave

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1957 on: April 06, 2019, 07:33:58 pm »
I have a 7 hour 40-miler under my belt, that was in pretty benign conditions, 8 hours for a different race in a torrential downpour, and  (from memory) just over 4 hours for a 22mile fell race in boggy conditions.  I'm not sure those translate to Barkley Marathons performance though
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1958 on: April 06, 2019, 08:59:46 pm »
Race report of one of the finishers

https://door5.com/2016/04/16/barkley-2016-act-4-the-guide/#more-2302

60 hours is really generous for 100 miles which indicates how difficult the course is.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1959 on: April 17, 2019, 09:10:57 am »
I've started trying fell running in the last few weeks, by racing in the local mid-week series. I've done a fair bit of trail running, and am ok(ish) with lumpy, but this has been a bit of an eye-opener. The mid-week series is all short races (4-8km), but they are brutal. I'm told that running downhill well comes with practice, so I just need to keep plugging away at that. The uphills are hard, but I do appear to be slightly above average at those. I'm 3 weeks in now, and it's sort of fun (very much type 2). Last night I learnt that you can actually take any route you want in fell running (i.e. shortcuts are allowed if you know the route well enough) when I got pipped near the finish by someone who I had definitely put 200m into and she appeared from a side track immediately in front of me  :o. But it you don't know the shortcut, you don't know it! There's 12 races in the series, so I'm hoping that by then I'll know some new routes, and have a bit better technique.  :thumbsup:

ElyDave

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1960 on: April 29, 2019, 09:07:02 am »
woo-hoo, up to the magic (for me) 8km run last week, at pretty much target HM pace

the HM plan I intended to start in 4 weeks suggests a starting point of 8miles/12km.  That might be a bit of a stretch, but im inclined to start it anyway
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1961 on: April 29, 2019, 06:05:17 pm »
VLM done but not as I would have liked it.

Never was going to be fast (had hoped to get down to below 80kg and aim for sub 4h) but was still 93kg on the morning, but at least I'd been doing some reasonable training.

Aimed for a steady 7min/km and went through half way at 2:26:54 feeling fine but then felt my hip flexor (old 5-a-side injury) start to go coming in to Canary Wharf (29km-ish) and walked from there from fear of doing myself some proper damage if I continued to run on it. Doubt I would have managed to run the whole thing anyway as I was just too heavy. The 13km walk to the finish gave me a 5:49:39. Not my slowest though (that was the heatwave of Brighton 2017).

Crowds are amazing but a little bit too much for me, just too much noise and no respite. Maybe it'd be better without my name on my vest. Also walking means you should be to the sides, so you're much closer to the crowds.

So many sweets on offer, I guess many people will be doing it for Diabetes UK...

Entered the ballot for 2020 and will look to do a different one if I don't get a place. And I'll only do another one if my weight is below 80kg (I said this last time but didn't want to pass up my London place and I'd already deferred once due to a stress fracture), it's just silly otherwise.

Some great runs from other yacfers.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

αdαmsκι

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1962 on: May 01, 2019, 10:15:40 pm »
I approached VLM bravely. I lost nearly two weeks of training in mid March due to a quad issue, meaning I missed out on a couple of long runs and track sessions. This meant I wasn't quite sure what form I was in coming into VLM. Running 100 miles during the first six days of my Easter holiday at least gave me some confidence everything would hold up.

I was expecting to run 2:32 / 2:33, but planned to go through half way in 75:00 and then see what would happen. I'd normally aim for a negative split, or as close to even as possible, but this time thought I'd gamble and see what would happen.

I made the most of the tailwinds and downhill in the first 5 km and thereafter settled into a more sensible pace. People I knew were going for 2:30 passed me but I opted to let them go as I knew I didn't want to run any quicker over the first half. I got to half way in 74:33 and still felt decent but turning into the wind at the bottom of the Isle of Dogs made me quickly re-evaluate things. I wasn't losing ground to people around me, so it was clear everyone was slowing a bit.

After Canary Wharf I realised I wouldn't be able to keep up the pace and it started to slow. But at least I clung on for 2:34:27, which was a ~30 second PB.

As always it was a fantastic day. I loved spotting so many friends out on the course cheering on the runners, and also sharing the road with loads of friends, a number of whom ran massive PBs. The start was just one massive social of catching up with people.

I didn't see Greenbank but dumped into Oranj at the finish who had had a good time by all accounts.

It goes without saying I'll be back next year. :thumbsup:
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ElyDave

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1963 on: May 01, 2019, 10:19:47 pm »
another 8km for me in rainy Aberdeen

First 5k at around 10km pace, then steady finish.  I'll push to 10km on Sunday I think, but steady paced. 

Good efforts at vlm  :thumbsup:
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1964 on: May 02, 2019, 08:23:52 am »
Still very early days for me. Starting from zero again really - I entered cessation the week leading up to a cycling holiday in Mallorca for fear of injury. That was a month ago....

I've still got no idea of what an appropriate pace is. I'm either flying past other joggers or having others fly past me. I did a 2.5km block at 5:04/km last night and felt I could have gone on for longer, but am weary of over-doing it too soon. I still get quite sore a day or so after these 5km walk/runs despite thorough stretching.

I guess my intermediate goal is to be able to run a comfortable 5km without much bother - mainly so that I have a means of faffless exercise available to me when i'm away from my beloved bikes. Still not sure I'll ever really like it, but having spent £100 on trainers I'll be damned if they are going to collect dust.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1965 on: May 02, 2019, 10:29:17 am »
After Canary Wharf I realised I wouldn't be able to keep up the pace and it started to slow. But at least I clung on for 2:34:27, which was a ~30 second PB.

It goes without saying I'll be back next year. :thumbsup:


Wow!  :o Good effort!  :thumbsup:

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1966 on: May 02, 2019, 10:33:23 am »
Fwiw I'd be very pleased with 5min/km. I'm  more interested in distance, so in your position focussed on distance at the same pace rather than faster.

Having said that busyness and illness means i haven't run for over a week.

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1967 on: May 02, 2019, 10:39:21 am »
If you're not quite at 5km running yet, then 5 min/km seems quite quick to me.

αdαmsκι, I think you must be a different species to me.  Awesome.


My running keeps being interrupted by cycling at the moment.  ::-) 

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1968 on: May 02, 2019, 12:25:59 pm »
αdαmsκι, I think you must be a different species to me.  Awesome.

I'll ditto that one.

Greenbank, I think you were sensible to crank it back. Pushing on could have stopped you running for months. You completed, despite an injury, and that really counts.
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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1969 on: May 02, 2019, 12:57:33 pm »
Following a short mid-week run this morning (4 miles at 8mph av.) I had some time to kill before being somewhere so had the idea of doing some sprints, something I haven't done in a very long time ( I ran for my county at schools level at 100m & 200m).

I ran diagonally across the full-size footy pitch as fast as I could 5 times, resting for 2-3 minutes between each sprint.  What I soon noticed was that my running form tightened up - much better arm swing, better foot strike and better upper body posture.

I also felt in in my quads - immediately.  They were burning mid-sprint but soon recovered.  I thought my quads were reasonably well developed through regular gym strength work and a lot of cycling, but this was something else.

Anyhow, it was fantastic fun!  I had that feeling of almost flying which I occasionally get when cycling (on a good day).  I'm going to start incorporating some of these into my weekly routine and see what effect it has on longer runs and cycling.

Oranj

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1970 on: May 02, 2019, 08:54:25 pm »
I didn't see Greenbank but dumped into Oranj at the finish who had had a good time by all accounts.

Cheers αdαmsκι, sub 6-min/mile is PROPER. I had a nice brisk run, no pressure for a target time though after a bit of an illness-interrupted January and February but enjoyed the atmosphere for a 3:06 finish. Not sure whether I'll be back next year, I sorta'd like to do something else in the spring.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1971 on: May 03, 2019, 11:10:05 am »
I did VLM too and did 4.30 and a few seconds ...so 20 minutes quicker than my one and only marathon two years back.

Went through half way in just under 2 hours so as you can see I paced it poorly.  That also included a piss stop right at the start and navigating through some crowds.  The drop off of pace in the second half was kind of intentional though - I just wanted to see how long I could hold 4 hour pace and then how well I could hold it together there after.   I had done quite a bit of my long runs at 4 hour pace but never m,ore than 8-10 miles at a time.  At about 11 miles I knew I was not holding 9 minute miles and I intentionally dropped back to my regular, cruising, MAF long run pace (around 9.45 - 10mins).  All was fine until 20 miles approx where I had a bloody stitch start that killed the last 6 miles.  Had to be walk/run home to get rid of it and my pace dropped right off.  Tops of legs also failed massively in last 10k and although they didnt cramp or lock they felt close to it and it ruined my form.

I think I could have done 4.15 on the day with more even pacing but that is easy to say!  I finished in a bit of a state so at least I know I emptied myself.

Crowds were amazing, organisation first class, amazing experience....would I do London again?  Not sure lol.   I'm not convinced big city marathons are my thing and the whole London logisitcs left me pretty exhausted.  Walked nearly 13 miles on Saturday travelling, registering and having a mooch around the city (that was a mistake but would have been pretty selfish on partner to go and lay down in the hotel all day).  Then standing around for hours before the start isnt something I dealt well with.   I also got a bit sick of people doing selfish, stupid things all the way down the course...having experience in group riding is pretty useful I reckon.   I think my preference and future lays with small town marathons and trails.  Having said that I will enter my balot for next year as the chances are slim but now I have a time to beat!

In total I covered 36 miles on Sunday which included a very confused, wobbly and painful 90 minutes around the finish area where I became lost, disorientated and eventually a bit tearful.  My partner eventually got hold of me on the phone and spotted me on the other side of the route at about 600m to go signs.  St Johns had to walk me accross the course to her lol.   I was ok after that and have recovered quite nicely.


So first marathon - 25 mpw average (max 40 mpw) and 14 stone 10 resulting in 4 hours 50
Second marathon - 36 mpw average (max 55 mpw) and 14 stone 2 resulting in 4 hours 30
(Im 6ft and built for context)

I am booked in for Abingdon in October and I am really determined to get my weekly to 45mpw and my weight down to 13 stone.  I think I could break 4 hours then.  Actually looking forward to that one now where as after my first I vowed never again.  Im keeping my long runs going before that and also trying to keep my weekly mileage up as I think im starting to have the conditioning to do so.

MAF training has really helped - been largely injury free since beginning it and it has allowed my volume to really take off.

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1972 on: May 03, 2019, 12:48:51 pm »
Good work!

I'm not convinced big city marathons are my thing and the whole London logisitcs left me pretty exhausted.

Good point, but that's one reason why London did work for me quite well. I was still in bed at home at 7.15am on Sunday. It only took me an hour and a bit to get to the start using public transport. Even then I got to the start a bit too early.

Transport and hotels for the London Marathon cost me a grand total of ~£2 (Putney to Waterloo on the train. The train to Blackheath was free for runners. Coming back I got the tube from Westminster to East Putney and that was free as they were waving people through the barriers - I think runners got to use the tube for free until 5pm or so anyway.)

Compare that to my two Brighton marathons where I've spent more than £600 each time (wife/daughter/myself in a nice hotel for two nights, trains there/back, etc as made a nice weekend of it each time). Of course, I could have done it cheaper but nowhere near as cheap as doing my local one.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1973 on: May 03, 2019, 01:38:54 pm »
All was fine until 20 miles approx where I had a bloody stitch start that killed the last 6 miles.

What works for me every time I get a stitch is to completely exhaust every last bit of air from my lungs - a full breath out and then force a final contraction, almost painfully.  This isn't easy when you are breathing heavily from exertion but can be done.  In a situation like yours on Sunday it would even be worth stopping briefly to try this in the hope it works and you can continue the rest of the run unhindered.

αdαmsκι

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Re: Cross Training: Running
« Reply #1974 on: May 06, 2019, 09:03:35 am »
Breaking 2 Part 2 to come in London in October with banking from everyone's fav petrochemical company

Eliud Kipchoge plans 'super human' 1:59 marathon in London in October

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/may/06/ineos-eliud-kipchoge-attempt-break-marathon-two-hour-barrier-london
What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

https://tyredandhungry.wordpress.com/