Author Topic: Recommendations for new Rear Light  (Read 11977 times)

Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #75 on: 30 October, 2008, 11:13:48 pm »
I've been running two Smart Superflashes. I have two mounted at a time and use one at a time. When the batteries die in one it saves faff time. I just switch the other one on and replace the dead batteries in the other when I stop.
They are very very good. Good reliability so far. Very bright. One on at a time is plenty bright enough. I use lithium batteries for a very good runtime and good light output throughout battery life. (Tescos sometimes sell packs of 4 for £3.97 which is almost half price)
I clip mine to my sadlebag/ seat pack and sellotape (several layers) mine so that they can't jump out and are more hassle to steal.
The Blackburn Mars 3 is brighter, but gives poor (comparitively, very poor and not worth the extra brightness) run time and is a pain to change the batteries. It involves 3 small screws. Bags of fun on a rainy night.

I don't use the flash mode. Especially not in a group. It's plenty bright enough to be seen by. It illuminates the road behind me.
It's looking to be one of the best rear lights I've ever had. And I've got through some lights in my time.

Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #76 on: 30 October, 2008, 11:14:40 pm »
I am reminded of a Father Ted sketch:

small

far away



 ;D

You've understood me then.

Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #77 on: 30 October, 2008, 11:18:51 pm »
It's looking to be one of the best rear lights I've ever had

Me too. I have 4 new ones in reserve - but my original two have never missed a beat.

Cheap too - I can cope with being careful with costly front lights when leaving the bike but ICNBA having to keep an eye on the rears as well.

andygates

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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #78 on: 30 October, 2008, 11:39:21 pm »
I can't imagine anyone confusing a bike for a car because it has two lights side-by-side
I'm merely speculating as to Frankly Frankie's thoughts. I think he does have a point. If indeed his point is what I think it is: that drivers tend, when conditions are poor or when time to make a decision is too short, to automatically see two approaching side-by-side lights as being car lights. And thus, if they are not car lights but are one's expensive LEDs 25 cm apart on the handlebars... then the distance apart is rather a lot smaller than expected when said driver pulls out of the side road.

The same reasoning applies to rears.

But in practice, it doesn't seem to work that way.  Instead, they just treat you as a wide thing, and their autopilot gives wide things more space than skinny things (the general Theory of Big).  The condition you expand upon, Sarge -- I've never seen that in the wild.  I've seen the reverse, where drivers react to you very early, a lot.  I present only observations.  Wide works.

(and just as an aside, frankie, please don't tell people what they're doing is wrong unless it's illegal :thumbsup:)
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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #79 on: 30 October, 2008, 11:41:30 pm »
If you're far away then the two lights will appear virtually as one because they are so close together.  And if you're near, you will qute clearly see that it is a bike.

Of all the things that bother me on a bike, the possibility of being confused for a car is pretty near the bottom of the list!

I have the DIY bar-end reflectors mentioned above, and they look brilliant when lit up.  It makes sense to use whatever width you have rather than just a single vertical line in the middle.  It is not an attempt to decieve anyone about the width of my vehicle, it's showing the width rather than making the bike appear to be even narrower than it is.
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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #80 on: 30 October, 2008, 11:46:26 pm »
I'm just exploring why two lights side-by-side might be "bad form".

I can't say I worry about it either - but I acknowledge that in certain circumstances the above confusion as to distance could arise.


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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #81 on: 30 October, 2008, 11:53:14 pm »
I see what you mean, SP & Frankie, that a pair of bar end lights nearby could in theory be confused for a car in the distance, but I question whether that does really ever happen, and whether the benefits of making yourself more visible in general outweighs it even if it does happen occasionally.
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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #82 on: 31 October, 2008, 12:02:37 am »
Was the possibility of this confusion not an issue at one time for motorbikes with twin headlights? I seem to recall that it was - but on the other hand there are loads of twin headlight motorbikes about so perhaps I was mistaken.

Of course, in the case of side by side front lights on a bike, the distance mis-interpretion is counteracted by the likelihood that the bike will be not only closer but also going more slowly.

For side-by-side rears it might be more of an issue as the mis-interpretation is compounded by the low speed of the cyclist.

I see what you mean, SP & Frankie


 ;D

I hereby accept my honorary and completely unwanted membership of the Two Lights are Evil League.

I question whether that does really ever happen

Dunno.

He says, eyeing his very much side-by-side Dinotte 600 and Hope 1.

Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #83 on: 31 October, 2008, 07:53:44 am »
My Exposure Race Maxx has two side by side LEDs in it, but confusing the 2cm or so separation of that with the 1.5m separation of a pair of car headlights would take some effort.

Similarly, my bar end lights are normally in a flashing mode (to keep the battery life sane), and are used in conjunction with lights on my carrier / seat pin, so it would take a lot to confuse three lights (some flashing) with the rear of another vehicle.

There is some possibility of confusion caused by light dimensions, but the only time I've ever experienced it, was with a relatively old mini.  Since it's headlights had a relatively narrow spacing, and were dimmer than most modern cars, for a brief period I thought that it was further away than expected, however once it did start to approach me, I realised what it was due to other visual cues and the variation in the speed of change of the original visual identification items.  This also only really occurred since the spacing and brightness were close, but not quite what I expected, not the vastly different variations that we are talking about.

Recognising a vehicle, and it's position and speed is a complex matter, you don't do it based on lamp spacing alone, even when quickly glancing at the road.  Light intensity, and position compared to other cues will also be important.  Most of us are rarely on a totally dark road, and utterly isolated compared to other light sources.  One of the few places that this can regularly occur is on a motorway, where the lack of road lighting, and clear view over substantial distances, can often mean you see other vehicles purely based on their rear lights.  This isn't likely to be an issue with pedal cycles!

I think that for cyclists this is a non-issue.  I've never looked, seen a bike with two adjacent bright rear LEDs and thought that it was a car several miles away. :-\
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

andygates

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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #84 on: 31 October, 2008, 09:08:00 am »
In summary:  Too much thinking being done here.  Look like the Death Star and people avoid you.  Job done.
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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #85 on: 31 October, 2008, 09:24:02 am »
Absolutely.

At the very least, buy a battery charger and some good NiMh cells and change 'em every single week.  There aren't many LED rear lights that can't be improved by about 1000% with some lovely oomphy battery goodness.
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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #86 on: 31 October, 2008, 09:26:38 am »
motorbikes can have twin headlamps but (depending on various years of manufacture) may only be allowed to have 1 in use at a time.

Shame really, when I got my first twin light motorbike I soon discovered that they worked independantly - if 1 bulb blew then I still had another light. Took away the fear of the sickening blackhole part way round a bend at night.

Charlotte

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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #87 on: 03 November, 2008, 02:51:54 pm »
Just out of interest, has anyone bought a BLT Fantom XR9 Rear Light?
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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #88 on: 03 November, 2008, 03:16:33 pm »
As a cyclist, I don't like cyclists in front of me hurting my eyeballs with their excessively bright rear lights.  My plea is: don't use them when you don't have to.  Save them for dual carriageways and fog or heavy rain, and otherwise use a more reasonable light (or less intense mode if the light has one).

I don't think super-bright rears cause a problem - lights angled SLIGHTLY up do. A very common example is the long-thin LD600, which if mounted to a seat-stay bracket always seem to point upwards by about 10'. I reckon this aims over the roof of most following cars, and straight into the eyes of other riders (and possibly HGV drivers!). Very annoying, and not helping the owner much.

(SUPER bright rears like that big Dinotte seem to work best angled downwards).
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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #89 on: 03 November, 2008, 03:31:24 pm »
Just out of interest, has anyone bought a BLT Fantom XR9 Rear Light?

Charlotte, I've started November with a resolution to avoid unnecessary bike-related expenditure.  You have now set me the challenge of working out why this 1W light cannot be classed as unnecessary.

Biggsy

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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #90 on: 03 November, 2008, 03:48:00 pm »
The viewing angle of super-bright LEDs is great enough for them to hurt my eyes from a few yards back on a bike even when the light is horizontal (angled neither up nor down).

LD600 I can tolerate, but LD610 is in the eyeball hurting category (though it is still not as bright as some of the lights recommended on this forum).  I have one myself actually, but mostly use the single-LED phasing mode.

Angling a rear light down won't help if you want to be seen from a long way back by car drivers and truckers.  I reckon 0° is the best compromise.
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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #91 on: 03 November, 2008, 03:59:14 pm »
Just out of interest, has anyone bought a BLT Fantom XR9 Rear Light?


I have now.....  :thumbsup:


I do wish people would stop pointing out shiny things to me.  We've had to get new shelves in the sitting room - just for my bike bits.... :-[
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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #92 on: 03 November, 2008, 04:07:10 pm »
I hope you're going to write a review when you get it?

:)
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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #93 on: 03 November, 2008, 05:32:49 pm »
(and just as an aside, frankie, please don't tell people what they're doing is wrong unless it's illegal :thumbsup:)

Sorry to be late coming back.
Wrong and illegal are two different things in my mind - that's why we have two different words and I use each as appropriate.  If anyone can't tell the difference they need to get literate.

Anyway - to me its about the message you give. 
1 light = 2-wheeled vehicle.
2 lights side by side = something wider than a 2-wheeled vehicle - which a cyclist is not.
Is it wrong to describe a deliberate act of deception on the public highway as 'wrong'?

And the message I receive from someone 'looking like the Death Star' doesn't bear repeating in polite company.

HTH
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Regulator

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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #94 on: 03 November, 2008, 05:41:07 pm »
(and just as an aside, frankie, please don't tell people what they're doing is wrong unless it's illegal :thumbsup:)

Sorry to be late coming back.
Wrong and illegal are two different things in my mind - that's why we have two different words and I use each as appropriate.  If anyone can't tell the difference they need to get literate.

Anyway - to me its about the message you give. 
1 light = 2-wheeled vehicle.
2 lights side by side = something wider than a 2-wheeled vehicle - which a cyclist is not.
Is it wrong to describe a deliberate act of deception on the public highway as 'wrong'?

And the message I receive from someone 'looking like the Death Star' doesn't bear repeating in polite company.

HTH

Frankly frankie, the assertion that you make about a "deliberate act of deception" says more about your thinking than anything else.

Might I politely suggest moderating your phraseology, otherwise some might be lead to think you're a bit of a twonk!
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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #95 on: 03 November, 2008, 06:04:50 pm »
Bog standard cateye for me but what I did add recently was one of the sigma back ups which I point to the right with the button facing back, I have been getting more room from the drivers since I changed that one small feature of my lighting arangement, visable from the rear but giving full visability of the blinky light from 90 degrees as well.

It seems more visable that way, plus I find that my thighs tend to rub against back ups when mounted as they should be in the advertising blurb.

Like the others said - as long as you arent shining frikin lazers into drivers eyes and blinding them so that they crash, then almost anything goes on the lighting front.

Just be prepared for the "UFO" sightings in the local paper

andygates

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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #96 on: 03 November, 2008, 06:09:57 pm »
That BLT looks fun.  Pity I've got all the lights I need!  ::-)

Frankie, when one light means you don't get given enough space, more isn't deception, it's just sensible.  We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #97 on: 03 November, 2008, 06:12:50 pm »
That BLT looks fun.  Pity I've got all the lights I need!  ::-)

Frankie, when one light means you don't get given enough space, more isn't deception, it's just sensible.  We'll just have to agree to disagree on that.
£27 almost though :o

I am thinking of getting some red lens filter film from halfrauds to modify a 1w luxeon torch that I have though :demon:

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Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #98 on: 03 November, 2008, 06:30:36 pm »
I think the "Frankie dual-light Illusion" theory sounds pretty sound. BUT

I'm choosing to ignore it for rear lights. A couple of reasons:
- A childhood spent nervously  checking those Never-Ready lights has left me paranoid about rear-light failure which I don't notice. Having two cheap lights massively reduces the chances of this.
- Rear lighting is different to front lighting. Even fast moving vehicles, from behind, normally have some time to gauge your position and movements. Being seen AT ALL seems like the important thing. Cars have excellent front lights, so before they actually run into you they have usually seen the back of your head clearly in their own light beam.

[i once rode straight into the gap between two MTB-ers with front megalights, thinking they were a car a mile away, so I can vouch for the distance perception problem.]
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Recommendations for new Rear Light
« Reply #99 on: 03 November, 2008, 06:40:29 pm »
I think we're getting a bit worked up about it.  You can either make sure that you've got a decent rear light and leave it at that, or worry about the one idiot in a car who needs a night-time sun to draw his attention to you.

Personally, I favour the former.  I usually carry a backup, though - once, while I was blithely riding along in pitch darkness, a chap in a car pulled alongside to tell me that my rear light wasn't working :-[

He still saw me, though!