Author Topic: Liggett goes off on one  (Read 5847 times)

Working my way up to inferior.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2012, 05:41:33 am »
They're not his sports, so he doesn't understand them, but it seems to me that MTB & BMX both have a valid place in the Olympics.  It's a shame that other events have had to suffer for their inclusion, particularly the spectacularly skilful tandem events, and when other events included recently are so dubious.

His comments about the Omnium are interesting.  I don't think that it necessarily merits inclusion, but it's odd when the versatility of a sportsman is looked down on.
Getting there...

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2012, 07:30:59 am »
Did we expect anything other than tittery from Liggett?
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

John Henry

Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2012, 07:31:59 am »
Agree in part, disagree in part. I've more sympathy with the inclusion of mountain biking than BMX. I'll miss one or two of the track disciplines that have gone, but not others (Madison was never my thing). I've no particular problem with the Omnium. But everyone's going to have an equally valid personal view, and he's entitled to his.

On the whole I prefer Olympic sports which have an objective, measurable outcome and don't rely on a panel of judges awarding style points. If we're going to chop Olympic events, I'd chop them first. YMMV, of course.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2012, 07:52:23 am »
In line with the first Olympic Games of the modern era, would he prefer women to be excluded?

I'd wonder if Baron de Coubertin appreciated Croquet being in the second modern games.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

IanDG

  • The p*** artist formerly known as 'Windy'
    • My Instagram
Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2012, 07:55:56 am »
Mixed feelings. MTB and BMX have UCI classifications so why not have a place in the Olympics - both events have been the starting point for good riders (Jamie Staff, Cadel Evans).

Removing the Pursuit and Kilo is what I don't understand. Enjoy the Madison but not upset about it being removed and wouldn't get upset if the omnium and kierin were taken away

Track events I'd choose to be included would be - sprint, pursuit, kilo, team pursuit  and points race.

red marley

Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2012, 07:59:49 am »
I think his main point is that we have lost some important and thrilling track events and I'd agree with him there. The emphasis on it being BMX's fault seems to be made more by the headline and editing of the article than by Phil directly. It does seem odd that the inclusion of BMX counts against the tally of track cycling events given they are such different sports.

Personally, I'm not a fan of participating in mountain biking, but watching the mountain biking events in Beijing last time was an unexpected pleasure, so am looking forward to seeing that this year (even if Essex can't quite match the surroundings of Laoshan).

It's also worth remembering that the Paralympics has a pretty good range of track events, including the kilo, individual pursuit and what should hopefully be some exciting tandem racing.

Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2012, 08:07:08 am »
Posted by: John Henry: Today at 07:31:59 AM

On the whole I prefer Olympic sports which have an objective, measurable outcome and don't rely on a panel of judges awarding style points. If we're going to chop Olympic events, I'd chop them first. YMMV, of course.

+1
But IMO the whole Olympic thing has got out of hand, it's more about making money than sporting prowess now.

Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2012, 08:14:36 am »
Yeah, I think it's the loss of track events that Phil has a problem with rather than MTB or BMX as such.

I just do not understand the IOC or the UCI. What is the problem? Why can't they all be included? Do they have some kind of limit on the amount of medals? If so, it's simple - change it. There is absolutely no reason why cycling (or any other sport for that matter) can't have medals for all the officially recognised disciplines and events within them. And that includes equal womens and mens events, which of course they've gone some way to resolving.... By chopping out loads of other events to make room for them. Madness!
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2012, 08:34:01 am »
Silly Philly.

Personally, if you were going to drop any cycling, for me it'd be some of the long track events.
The journey is always more important than the destination

Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2012, 08:47:49 am »
The first thing I would drop is the bloody football, total waste of time, then the tennis would go closely followed by basketball and possibly the equestrian stuff,

Gaston Lagaffe

  • aka Mr Kite
Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2012, 08:51:37 am »
In line with the first Olympic Games of the modern era, would he prefer women to be excluded?



I doubt it

<a href="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=45784191&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;fullscreen=1&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=01AAEA" target="_blank">http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=45784191&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;fullscreen=1&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=01AAEA</a>

"Il veut moins de riches, moi je veux moins de pauvres"

Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2012, 08:56:40 am »
It's an interesting parrallel with the skiing. I first saw Ski Cross at an X Games in Chamonix in the mid 90s when it was a variant of Boarder Cross. It was the most exciting thing I'd ever seen on snow, but it didn't fully fit into the cool dude boarding culture or the mainline conservative ski culture. It was the hit of the Vancouver Games. I'd rather see Mountain Biking in a setting with mountains though, a view of the Thames Estuary can be moody, but it's rarely magnificent. The Manchester Commonwealth games had the benefit of a good venue for the cycling.

Rhys W

  • I'm single, bilingual
    • Cardiff Ajax
Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2012, 09:09:56 am »
I dunno, but I think those BMX riders would fall off their bikes a lot less if they rode bikes that fit them.

Gus

  • Loosing weight stone by stone
    • We will return
Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2012, 09:46:33 am »
I dunno, but I think those BMX riders would fall off their bikes a lot less if they rode bikes that fit them.
;D  I doubt it, they would crash into every tabletop on the course and crash even more.
BMX is bloody hard, if you don't are fit with plenty of upperbody strength you will loose. (I tried it& failed big time  :-X)

But else I tend to agree with Windy.

Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2012, 10:09:54 am »
I'd rather see Mountain Biking in a setting with mountains though, a view of the Thames Estuary can be moody, but it's rarely magnificent. The Manchester Commonwealth games had the benefit of a good venue for the cycling.

I've done a bit of cross-country MTB racing in the south of England and the west Midlands, and in my experience, you don't need to set a course in the middle of a mountain range to come up with a severe physical and technical challenge. Given it's the London Games ( a subtle clue, methinks) it would be a tad incongruous to shove the XC MTB events right up the other end of the country due to a dogmatic insistence on mountains. It would only have been worth doing so if the downhill discipline was an Olympic event - for example, Fort William has hosted national and World Cup series XC and DH events in the past.

The latest post in the Inner Ring is worth a read. Whilst it is touching on the farce arising from French and German efforts to get extra athletes into the track events, the issue of culled track events is discussed a little bit in the comments. When you look at the German track sprinter entered into the XC race, it's going to be almost worth watching that event just for the comedy value.
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2012, 10:39:46 am »
BMX is bloody hard, if you don't are fit with plenty of upperbody strength you will loose.
So what next; free-climbing?

BMX is clearly a fine sport, but we don't need more events in the Olympics. You have to decide somehow, and for me - once you've chopped out the judges' opinion events - we should be looking at the basics. Faster, higher, stronger; not how fast if the surface is slippy and someone dumped a massive pile of spare rubble in the way.

Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2012, 10:44:46 am »
On the whole I prefer Olympic sports which have an objective, measurable outcome and don't rely on a panel of judges awarding style points. If we're going to chop Olympic events, I'd chop them first. YMMV, of course.
Yeah, that's how I feel. Swimming races in, synchronised swimming out. Although I do quite like the diving and some of the gymnastics, but not fannying about with ribbons, so I'm willing to show some flexibility/hypocrisy.
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2012, 10:46:14 am »
On the whole I prefer Olympic sports which have an objective, measurable outcome and don't rely on a panel of judges awarding style points. If we're going to chop Olympic events, I'd chop them first. YMMV, of course.
Yeah, that's how I feel. Swimming races in, synchronised swimming out. Although I do quite like the diving and some of the gymnastics, but not fannying about with ribbons, so I'm willing to show some flexibility/hypocrisy.

Surely the ribbons is all about demonstrating flexibility?
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2012, 10:51:05 am »
What would be interesting is to poll the riders for their views on what would count for more on their CV. Does gold in the Olympic road race trump a Spring Classic, or is it worth no more than a post-TdF "chipper" criterium?

Perhaps the road events should have been dropped in order to preserve the blue riband track events, chances are though, that there would still have been some restrictions on athletes per event to give everyone bar GB and Australia a better shot at the medals. :demon:
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2012, 10:52:23 am »
Why the reduction in events is the question, when womens swimming was introduced did they reduce the number of mens events?

I am glad to see the introduction of the Omnium, it parallels the multi discipline athletics events, but I miss the madness of the maddison and the purity of the individual pursuit.

Its not like the velodrome has to be used for another sport and so has a limited number of days for track cycling, instead there could be 16 days of competition.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2012, 10:53:33 am »
I could happily manage without the Keirin.
Getting there...

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2012, 10:58:22 am »
Removing the Pursuit and Kilo is what I don't understand. Enjoy the Madison but not upset about it being removed and wouldn't get upset if the omnium and kierin were taken away

Track events I'd choose to be included would be - sprint, pursuit, kilo, team pursuit  and points race.

+1 re the individual pursuit and kilo. If it had to be a choice, I'd lose the keirin and team sprint to make way for them. I like the madison too and would keep it. And I like the omnium too - it's the decathlon of track cycling. Still not entirely sure why we can't keep all of them though.

I'm not fussed about the BMX or MTB events. They're fun but I have no strong feelings either way on whether they should be Olympic events. I think I broadly agree with mattc though.

The events I think we really need to get rid of are the ones that require their own mini-tournament structure spread out over many days, or even weeks - eg football, tennis. It's fine to have a few heats for short events like sprints, but events of longer duration should be mass participation one-offs, eg the marathon, the road race.

Also, the swimming events need to be seriously rationalised - far too many of them. Much as I admire the likes of Phelps and Foster, there's something not quite right about a sport where it's possible for one competitor to take seven golds at a single games.

d.

Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2012, 12:36:53 pm »
BMX is bloody hard, if you don't are fit with plenty of upperbody strength you will loose.
So what next; free-climbing?

BMX is clearly a fine sport, but we don't need more events in the Olympics. You have to decide somehow, and for me - once you've chopped out the judges' opinion events - we should be looking at the basics. Faster, higher, stronger; not how fast if the surface is slippy and someone dumped a massive pile of spare rubble in the way.

My son is a member of British Mountaineering Council and yes, Free Climbing is openly being discussed as a potential Olympic sport.
It already has  a World Championship.
On the basis of faster , higher, stronger it qualifies .
 Difficult to set up in Essex though. Beachy Head anyone?
 Its all about appealing to yoof and TV/sponsors, not what the public think of as Olympic sport. Hence golf, tennis etc.

Somewhere in "Heroes ,Villains and Velodromes" there is an account of the reasoning that was behind the changes in track events. Its very complicated for an outsider to follow , but basically the IOC and the UCI blame veryone but themselves after a loaded series of questions put to National governing bodies gave them a result they didnt want.

Biggsy

  • A bodge too far
  • Twit @iceblinker
    • My stuff on eBay
Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2012, 12:43:13 pm »
Was the Madison dropped because it's boring?
●●●  My eBay items  ●●●  Twitter  ●●●