Author Topic: Liggett goes off on one  (Read 5828 times)

citoyen

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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2012, 01:30:59 pm »
Boring? I suppose you're one of those people who thinks Test cricket is boring too, are you? ;)

I presume it was dropped because of all the track cycling events, it's probably the hardest for spectators to follow, and spectator-friendliness seems to be the overriding concern for the organisers these days. Fair enough, I suppose.

I find the madison exciting to watch even when I haven't got a clue what's going on. Mind you, I'd be happy if the six day race was made an Olympic event.

d.

Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2012, 02:13:08 pm »
Talking of which, whatever happened to Tony Doyle's plans for a London Six Day? I'd go. 'Specially if there was a well-stocked bar.
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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2012, 02:32:49 pm »
early on in the development of the London Games, there was a move to get the MTB stuff held in Wales due to it's hilly nature, it was decided that it was too far away ? likewise the show jumping should have been held at Hickstead, an internationally renowned show jumping / equestrian set up, but no, needed to have an arena specially built in the middle of London at the cost of £000's to the good 'ol tax payer, hey ho,

mattc

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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2012, 03:03:39 pm »
I can see the attraction of running the events centrally where possible, but in the 'current economic climate' this is exactly the sort of waste that should have been stamped on early doors.

(football in Glasgow seems to be OK).
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fuzzy (retd.) AAGE

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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2012, 04:31:04 pm »
Drop the Keirin :o

The Keirin is a fantastic event, as is the Omnium.

They should have kept them all in.

Edit to add-

Was anything dropped in Track and Field to accomodate the womens Pole Vault?
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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2012, 04:41:43 pm »
Was anything dropped in Track and Field to accomodate the womens Pole Vault?

The crossbar ;D

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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2012, 05:15:14 pm »
Personally I'd add a third event to the Olympics and the Paralympics, one which excludes those whose income from sport exceeds that from their full-time job. I suppose it would be possible to have a medal table adjusted to weed out the millionaires.

Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2012, 05:17:04 pm »
Was anything dropped in Track and Field to accomodate the womens Pole Vault?
I'd ask the same about swimming when the open water swim was introduced.

More seriously I think too many sports and their variants have been included in the games, such as under water synchronised martial artists basket weaving on bicycles.  I think the games should go back to the basics of running, jumping, throwing.  Certainly scrap all the "artistic" sports.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2012, 07:53:44 pm »
Thinking about it, dropping the individual pursuit could have been a blessing in disguise - if it had still been an Olympic event, would Brad Wiggins have switched his focus to the road in the way he did?

d.

Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2012, 04:46:13 am »
I'm not keen on mountain biking and I can't bloody stand BMX, but it was absolutely the right decision to introduce them as Olympic events.

Track cycling is this weird little niche that doesn't really encourage broader participation in cycling. I love it to death, but it's obviously alienating to a lot of people - the basic geometry of a velodrome is intimidating, even if you're an experienced road cyclist. It doesn't help that so many track events are so inscrutable. Most track and field events need no explanation, but ordinary punters are baffled by the keirin and sprint, let alone something as complicated as a madison or points race.

Bringing in MTB and BMX events can only be good news for cycling. They're events that young people can relate to. Most kids will have a mountain bike or a BMX in the shed, which they might be inspired to dust off by a medal for Britain. Much as it pains me to say, I think that Shanaze Reade is a more plausible role model than Victoria Pendleton.

Biggsy

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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2012, 05:52:47 pm »
Yeah, it's called the Olympic Games, not the Olympic Sports.  I wouldn't mind if darts and Twister was included.
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citoyen

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Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2012, 11:16:22 pm »
Most track and field events need no explanation, but ordinary punters are baffled by the keirin and sprint, let alone something as complicated as a madison or points race.

My TV writer friend was putting together a TV guide to the Olympics and asking for advice on what to include. "What's the keirin?" she asked. So I told her. "Motorbikes? Are you taking the piss?" she replied.

;D

d.

LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #37 on: July 30, 2012, 07:18:48 am »
A couple of USA-ian velodromes have noise restrictions and substitute tandem-paced keirins. I've not tried it but I've always thought that tandem pacing would work better than a motorcycle pacer. You don't have the common problems of the pacer not cranking the throttle enough or suddenly leaping away. A strong tandem pair accelerates in the right manner and to the right speed for a keirin leadout.
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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #38 on: July 30, 2012, 09:18:09 am »
In the early days of track racing (late 19th century) they used triples and quads for pacing I believe.

I was at the Wales National Velodrome last week to watch a Team GB training session and it was strange to see an "ordinary" motorbike there instead of an old two-stroke derny - it just didn't look right. The motorbike was whisper-quiet, so quiet that I found myself trying to determine if it was actually powered by electricity.

Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #39 on: July 30, 2012, 09:26:50 am »
A couple of USA-ian velodromes have noise restrictions and substitute tandem-paced keirins. I've not tried it but I've always thought that tandem pacing would work better than a motorcycle pacer. You don't have the common problems of the pacer not cranking the throttle enough or suddenly leaping away. A strong tandem pair accelerates in the right manner and to the right speed for a keirin leadout.

I used to replace the derny quite often at track league, winding it up to (not quite!) speed and then swinging off, just on my bike.

It still gave a decent race for people. The UCI (bless them) has, of course, cut the terminal speed of the derny quite severely, so it's not an impossible speed for a single rider, or a tandem.

David Martin

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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #40 on: July 30, 2012, 10:56:22 am »
We often use Human Powered Derney's for the youth riders.. OUr derney is a motorbike - One of our local riders was qualified to ride the derney before his road motorbike!
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Biggsy

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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #41 on: July 30, 2012, 11:06:03 am »
I always wonder about the fumes from a petrol motorbike.  I'd like an electric bike to be used anyway, for the sake of publicising electric vehicles.
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LittleWheelsandBig

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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #42 on: July 30, 2012, 11:24:04 am »
Not just triplets and quads were used for pacing a 100+ years ago. The formidable Dunlop pacing team had several quints, a big advantage for their racers. There were even bigger pacers made, sometimes with 'donkeyback' positions for the last rider.
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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #43 on: July 30, 2012, 01:54:43 pm »
Like many others, I used to think the artistic sports or the events which rely on judges' opinon had no place in the Olympics, but my opinion's developed since then. Weren't grace and skill elements of the wrestling and other events in the classical Olympics?

As for the track events, I don't think I fully understand all of them but they probably all have a place. So what criteria should be used if there isn't time or space to hold all of them: popularity? suitability for TV? significance to competitors? I don't know! It's like the multiple swimming events - to my mind there's no difference between the various strokes of the same distance, but clearly the distinction counts for those who know.
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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2012, 02:15:15 pm »
Usual caveats apply re wikipedia pages - but if you look at those available on the classic (original) olympics and the modern olypics, then other than very initially they *never* have been just running, jumping throwing -  the Greeks added events over the the decades, too. ISTR that if you took the events of the first olympics and stripped out the cultural/religious aspect you'd be left with about a day's worth of competion (if that).

As for kicking out 'artistic' stuff - you *do* realise you'd lose all gymnastics and diving, for example? Those are way more interesting IMO than see a bunch of blokes kick up the dust over 100m..YMMV



Eccentrica Gallumbits

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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #45 on: August 04, 2012, 05:28:12 pm »
The velodrome was sitting unused for the first few days of the 'lympics, wasn't it? They could have added women's events in without losing men's.
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David Martin

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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2012, 06:27:53 pm »
It is to do with the number of medals. Cycling has X medals and they set the programme around that. Arguably the omnium gives the best value for money in spectator minutes per medal
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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #47 on: August 04, 2012, 06:34:22 pm »
But nobody has ever come up with any reasonable explanation as to why cycling can't have Y medals rather than X
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eck

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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2012, 06:35:10 pm »
And, I think one of the commentators, or it may have been Cav, said that swimming has 42 medals. 42 FFS.  ::-)
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Re: Liggett goes off on one
« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2012, 07:11:53 pm »
And according to Addlington Swimming is the hardest sport to win a medal in! No it isn't! You've got about a million events to have a crack at...
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