Author Topic: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*  (Read 25018 times)

Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #125 on: 04 August, 2012, 06:20:23 pm »
Wow.
I feel as excited as if my own girls had won it.  Although I'd have burst by now!

Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #126 on: 04 August, 2012, 06:21:48 pm »
The Americans were miles behind. Did they have brakes on or something?
You've obviously never raced track.  ::-)

Do you have to have raced track to post in here now?
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #127 on: 04 August, 2012, 06:28:45 pm »
Awesome. Awesome. Awesome.

I'm crying and laughing - especially when I see the split screen replays.

I watch these events, in the same way I do the hoovering.

Naked.

Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #128 on: 04 August, 2012, 06:43:02 pm »
]

Hopefully, Sir Chris Hoy will win another Gold in the Keirin beofre he pops off to the supermarket.

Presumably it wasn't a case of "arise" but "you can get up off the floor now"  :-\

Appears, sadly, that this attitude to sportsmanship mght go beyond pedalling - Sir Steve Redgrave, commenting on the skulls this morning, when there was a restart because of a GB mechanical, advised the crew re any apparently malfunctioning part that the judges might obviously want to see: "if it isn't broken, break it".

The Brit team then took a screwdriver to the seat part before anyone had a chance to examine it. I'm surpised they don't pack hacksaws to take to the oars.

After that I was cheering the Danes on, and they won - congratulations.

Well done to the women against the Americans in the pursuit - an amazing performance,  :thumbsup:and best of luck to Vic on Tuesday.


Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #129 on: 04 August, 2012, 07:00:50 pm »
I'd assume that in the event of any mechanical fault call, the judges/commissaires would be the first ones allowed to inspect the fault.
Maybe though they rely on the expectation of fair play to ensure an accurate report on the damage...

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
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Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #130 on: 04 August, 2012, 07:02:31 pm »
The Americans were miles behind. Did they have brakes on or something?
You've obviously never raced track.  ::-)

Do you have to have raced track to post in here now?
That post probably needed another smiley - but I didn't trust my smiley-combinatorial skills.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #131 on: 04 August, 2012, 07:46:04 pm »
The Americans were miles behind. Did they have brakes on or something?

The GB women had trained specifically to "back up" rides with only an hour between. I'm guessing the USA may not have, and also that they hadn't lived and trained together for nearly a year to the exclusion of all else.

Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #132 on: 04 August, 2012, 08:05:09 pm »
]

Hopefully, Sir Chris Hoy will win another Gold in the Keirin before he pops off to the supermarket.

Presumably it wasn't a case of "arise" but "you can get up off the floor now"  :-\


Don't understand this comment. Veiled reference to a team member on the fall to another rider way way after a knighthood was awarded to Chris Hoy? If so, a pretty poor point that really does not contribute to anything other than suggesting a 'sour grapes' affliction.

Appears, sadly, that this attitude to sportsmanship mght go beyond pedalling - Sir Steve Redgrave, commenting on the skulls this morning, when there was a restart because of a GB mechanical, advised the crew re any apparently malfunctioning part that the judges might obviously want to see: "if it isn't broken, break it".

The Brit team then took a screwdriver to the seat part before anyone had a chance to examine it. I'm surpised they don't pack hacksaws to take to the oars.

So did you support ther Danes because of comments made by Sir Steve or because you thought the GB crew were cheating?

I assume the officials were content that a malfunction had occurred and allowed a restart, even though it may have been outside the 100m allowance for a restart. So all is fine and dandy, unless you actually believe the GB crew conned the officials. Do you believe this?

Well done to the women against the Americans in the pursuit - an amazing performance,  :thumbsup:and best of luck to Vic on Tuesday.


But surely, if you believe that BC is tainted by such tactics of falling just to gain benefit, then anyone associated with this organisation is also tainted.  Otherwise I don't follow the logic or thought process.

Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #133 on: 04 August, 2012, 08:42:27 pm »
Anyone know how come Hong Kong compete separately from China?
Because it always has, having joined the IOC long, long ago. It's been in more Olympics than the PRC.


Yeah, we answered that earlier. But still, well done.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #134 on: 04 August, 2012, 09:01:28 pm »
Why the hell would you stop rowing in a race when you have had a storming start and are leading.
It is simpler than it looks.

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #135 on: 04 August, 2012, 10:14:26 pm »
The Americans were miles behind. Did they have brakes on or something?
You've obviously never raced track.  ::-)
You obviously don't know a joke when you see one.  ::-)
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #136 on: 04 August, 2012, 10:48:28 pm »
I'm guessing that some of those here don't go back that far in track racing, and maybe haven't been trackies?

I've never been a trackie but having recently read the new Reg Harris biog, I don't think anything in track cycling could surprise or shock me now.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #137 on: 04 August, 2012, 11:39:54 pm »
I think he did very well for a mountain biker.. :o The match between Forsterman and Philip was great - really fun to watch. Possibly the most entertaining race I've seen so far. 
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #138 on: 05 August, 2012, 07:31:21 am »
I'm terrible at this quoting thing with multiple layered quotes, so folks will I hope bear with me - this will be a pig's ear of formatting.


]

Hopefully, Sir Chris Hoy will win another Gold in the Keirin before he pops off to the supermarket.

Presumably it wasn't a case of "arise" but "you can get up off the floor now"  :-\


Don't understand this comment. Veiled reference to a team member on the fall to another rider way way after a knighthood was awarded to Chris Hoy? If so, a pretty poor point that really does not contribute to anything other than suggesting a 'sour grapes' affliction.

MY REPLY: I think it's pretty clear and you surely understand it. It isn't a veiled comment at all. Yes it was another rider who fell but Hindes made it clear that it was a team decision based on an earlier team talk. He didn't say so but quite possibly it goes up beyond the team to the top of British Cycling.  Yes Hoy won the knighthood some time ago and deserved it - I'm assuming there is no "funny business" in earlier wins. But I'll always remember that clip where Hindes said what the team had done. I've heard that Hoy is annoyed that his gold is tainted - if so, he's responsible since he was clearly involved in this tactic and is I think the senior member? I think it does contribute to the point under discussion. Why I should have "a sour grapes affliction" as you put it I have no idea. I'm British and pretty patriotic - and for this reason do not like to see Britain's position/standing trashed by so-called "gamesmanship". It's not nice and it's very sad. And of course folk beyond the world of YACF in the big wide world will be reading about this. If you are ever to be proud of your nation there are inevitably going to be times when you will be ashamed, assuming of course that Brits are not perfect.  Though I'm not ashamed of Hoy et al so much as damn angry for what they did. I like to think that they are not typical - see below.

Appears, sadly, that this attitude to sportsmanship mght go beyond pedalling - Sir Steve Redgrave, commenting on the skulls this morning, when there was a restart because of a GB mechanical, advised the crew re any apparently malfunctioning part that the judges might obviously want to see: "if it isn't broken, break it".

The Brit team then took a screwdriver to the seat part before anyone had a chance to examine it. I'm surpised they don't pack hacksaws to take to the oars.

So did you support ther Danes because of comments made by Sir Steve or because you thought the GB crew were cheating?

I assume the officials were content that a malfunction had occurred and allowed a restart, even though it may have been outside the 100m allowance for a restart. So all is fine and dandy, unless you actually believe the GB crew conned the officials. Do you believe this?


MY REPLY: It seemed unlikley that thay had deliberately broken the boat since they were ahead - it was though very early in the race and who knows (not me) what had happened. And unfortunately (folk learn this when young) bad behaviour does unfortunately lead to suspicion of other behaviour from the same source even when there is none - that's the way of the world. It is the reason I believe why folk/teams/schholboys and girls or whatever are sometimes told "remember, "you are an ambassador for your <insert body> ..."    Hoy et al are ambassadors for GB - oh dear.

I'm no expert on boating but the GB crew appeared to take a screwdriver to the bit BEFORE anyone had a chance to examine it - a basic knowledge of evidence tells me that this cannot be good.

This came I'm pretty sure after Redgrave's comment. The tone of Redgrave's comment suggested that the "if it aint broke, break it" ruse was a bit of insight/inside knowledge on the ways of the game.  Or maybe it was just his personal suggestion. Both equally damning and I'm not the only one who thinks this is, er, not quite the Olympic spirit.

So I wanted the Danes to win for the reasons above - fiddling with apparently malfunction equipment before it was checked and most of all Redgrave's comments which implied a somewhat common "gamesmanship".  And the Danes deserved to win so all is hunky dory.   

I wandered out to my washing after Regrave's unedifying approach to home mechanics and bumped into a neighbour - she said her husband was also pleased that the Danes had won. They went to the stadium last night for the three golds evening and presumably had a great time - the atmosphere/roar must have been incredible. 

 

Well done to the women against the Americans in the pursuit - an amazing performance,  :thumbsup:and best of luck to Vic on Tuesday.


VELOMAN: But surely, if you believe that BC is tainted by such tactics of falling just to gain benefit, then anyone associated with this organisation is also tainted.  Otherwise I don't follow the logic or thought process.

MY REPLY: Well yes, British Cycling is tainted I'm afraid - in fact I have half a mind to write to them. That's what "gamesmanship" followed by plain lying which insults my intelligence (he was misunderstood/he doesn't really speak English my foot) does to an organisation. But I'm hoping that the rest of the teams haven't done anything dodgy - one does like to retain a little hope/naivety.

I'll be cheering on Queen Vic on Tuesday.

PS _ your avatar name recalled this:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/08/news/britains-hindes-admits-to-crashing-purposely-in-team-sprint_232933

Rig of Jarkness

  • An Englishman abroad
Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #139 on: 05 August, 2012, 07:52:19 am »
Well yes, British Cycling is tainted I'm afraid - in fact I have half a mind to write to them. That's what "gamesmanship" followed by plain lying which insults my intelligence (he was misunderstood/he doesn't really speak English my foot) does to an organisation. But I'm hoping that the rest of the teams haven't done anything dodgy - one does like to retain a little hope/naivety.

I've heard that some of the competitors are even trying to gain an unfair advantage by training !  It's just not British is it ?
Aero but not dynamic

Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #140 on: 05 August, 2012, 08:38:33 am »
Oh FFS!

What isn't forbidden is permitted, and if the aggregation of marginal improvements in kit, training and aerodynamics to within a hair's breadth is to result a single additional medal then the same attitude has to hold to the rules. Up to the line, but not over it, and if the UCI doesn't like our interpretation of the rules, then they can always change them (and they do).

fhills,
Did you prefer the era where we were heroic failures? Where preparation for a TP was a bowl of porridge and a couple of kippers? Where we went home empty handed, but with a warm feeling that we were cheated by all those foreign johnnys? Your halo is in the post.

To say that those gold medals are worthless is a bit pathetic really. If the commissaire was OK with it (and they're pretty tight with their interpretation of the rules) then the gold stands, the guys can hold their heads up and you're getting your knickers in a twist about bugger all.
Allow me to explain through the medium of interpretive dance

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #141 on: 05 August, 2012, 09:49:26 am »
It was a good provocative pst that got danders up. Just what we need in POBI.

Oh, hang on...
It is simpler than it looks.

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #142 on: 05 August, 2012, 10:23:27 am »
Chris Boardman (again) pointed out that, for the VP/JV disqualification, the judge in question had already interpreted the rule in that way in a previous event, had told the competitors that that was how he was going to interpret the rules, and that on that basis Team GB had no grounds for complaint.

Presumably the rule covering mechanical failure in a track event is also open to interpretation and that Hindes knew this. I don't see any problem at all.

Warning: I know buggerall about track racing and merely parrot what I'm told by the television pundits. However, I'm a reasonably experienced chess arbiter and applying rules is what we do.

Moderately relevant anecdote alert: some years ago, a rule was required regarding use of mobile phones in tournament halls. It was decided by the BCF (who have since changed their name to ECF) that any competitor whose mobile phone went off during the game would automatically lose. However, that didn't deal with the problem as once someone has finished their game, when they are in the playing hall they are no longer a player but become a spectator. The rule therefore would not apply to these people even though the phone would cause just as much disturbance.

I suggested for the tournament in question (Essex Championship/Southern Counties' Championship with qualifying places for the British Championship) that awarding an immediate loss was not the best way of approaching this problem: firstly, the opponent of the player concerned might be in the process of conducting a brilliant attack and it wouldn't be fair to him/her to have their opportunity to display their playing skill removed by some random event outside of their control; and secondly this did not affect those competitors whose game in the round in question had finished and were therefore spectators.

We therefore announced at the start of the tournament that any competitor whose phone went off during play, whether their own game was in progress or not, would have a point deducted from their total. It was announced in advance, everyone knew what we were going to do and why, and there were no problems in that event with a mobile phone going off*. So far as I am aware this rule has not been adopted by the ECF, even though it is clearly better than the rule we were seeking to replace for the purposes of the tournament in question.

*Although there could have been. The guy who had won the BC qualifying place had finished his last round and was watching the game that was to decide the £1000 first prize. I was not far away and definitely heard the very faint noise of a mobile phone, whereupon the BC qualifier demonstrated his ability to sprint out of the tournament hall at great speed. Since no-one else seemed to have noticed, and neither of the players (one of whom was a very volatile Russian IM) in the key game was disturbed, I decided that discretion was the better part of valour and said nothing.
Quote from: Dez
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Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #143 on: 05 August, 2012, 10:51:37 am »
fhills,
Did you prefer the era where we were heroic failures? Where preparation for a TP was a bowl of porridge and a couple of kippers? Where we went home empty handed, but with a warm feeling that we were cheated by all those foreign johnnys? Your halo is in the post.

To say that those gold medals are worthless is a bit pathetic really. If the commissaire was OK with it (and they're pretty tight with their interpretation of the rules) then the gold stands, the guys can hold their heads up and you're getting your knickers in a twist about bugger all.
I'd prefer it if we won by training hard, having the right kit and then riding faster than the opposition. If you're not good enough to win without gamesmanship, you're not good enough to win. I can't see why that's so hard to understand.
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


Rig of Jarkness

  • An Englishman abroad
Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #144 on: 05 August, 2012, 01:02:30 pm »
I'd prefer it if we won by training hard, having the right kit and then riding faster than the opposition. If you're not good enough to win without gamesmanship, you're not good enough to win. I can't see why that's so hard to understand.

And that's exactly what they did. I can't see why that's so hard to understand.
Aero but not dynamic

Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #145 on: 05 August, 2012, 01:02:51 pm »
PS _ your avatar name recalled this:
http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/08/news/britains-hindes-admits-to-crashing-purposely-in-team-sprint_232933

?

As the posts were concerned with the link, why should my avatar name recall the story.  Unless you are suggesting some link.  Are you?

RJ

  • Droll rat
Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #146 on: 05 August, 2012, 01:11:22 pm »
I'd prefer it if we won by training hard, having the right kit and then riding faster than the opposition. If you're not good enough to win without gamesmanship, you're not good enough to win. I can't see why that's so hard to understand.

And that's exactly what they did. I can't see why that's so hard to understand.

Except (I think) Kirst's point is that they were only able to do that following a spot of "gamesmanship" (to the point of = "cheating").  My heart says Kirst has a point; my head says:  the (extremely picky) commissaire thought it was OK. 

I'd say that "gamesmanship" (= mind games) is part and parcel of many cycling disciplines, notably the individual sprint.  Contrast the TT - not known as "the race of truth" for nothing ...

Rig of Jarkness

  • An Englishman abroad
Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #147 on: 05 August, 2012, 02:09:07 pm »
Contrast the TT - not known as "the race of truth" for nothing ...

The TT has just as many rules and competitors push them to the limit just as much as in any other sport.  For example Frank Schleck's 'Camel Front' from last year.  And what about the Tour that Lemond won because he used tri bars and Fignon didn't ?
Aero but not dynamic

Re: Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #148 on: 05 August, 2012, 02:49:20 pm »
fhills,
Did you prefer the era where we were heroic failures? Where preparation for a TP was a bowl of porridge and a couple of kippers? Where we went home empty handed, but with a warm feeling that we were cheated by all those foreign johnnys? Your halo is in the post.

To say that those gold medals are worthless is a bit pathetic really. If the commissaire was OK with it (and they're pretty tight with their interpretation of the rules) then the gold stands, the guys can hold their heads up and you're getting your knickers in a twist about bugger all.
I'd prefer it if we won by training hard, having the right kit and then riding faster than the opposition. If you're not good enough to win without gamesmanship, you're not good enough to win. I can't see why that's so hard to understand.

In any competitive sport you push the rules to the limit if you want to get anywhere.  If you don't you can guarantee the opposition will. 

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Olympic track cycling *with spoilers*
« Reply #149 on: 05 August, 2012, 03:00:57 pm »
Well yes, British Cycling is tainted I'm afraid - in fact I have half a mind to write to them.

Really? Well, make sure you use plenty of green ink, just so they know exactly how seriously to take you.

d.

"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."