Author Topic: Will Cav be OffSki?  (Read 6473 times)

Will Cav be OffSki?
« on: August 20, 2012, 02:06:44 am »
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/19/mark-cavendish-team-sky-bradley-wiggins

It's hardly a surprise and makes perfect sense. There's no way it'd be worth his while hanging around for more than another season, and he's likely to get some seriously lucrative offers. This time next year, I'm sure we'll see a similar thing with either Froome or Wiggins. Sky just has an embarrassment of talent.

I'm trying to think where he'll end up. Is there a Belgian or Italian team without a strong sprinter? Or maybe a team with an established sprinter who'll have to move aside for His Cavship (with hilarious consequences)?
'Something....something.... Something about racing bicycles, but really a profound metaphor about life itself.'  Tim Krabbé. Possibly

Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2012, 08:10:00 am »
I think the rumour is that Omega are interested.  They have Boonen, Ciolek and Steegmans(last Chaps Elysees winner pre-Cavendish) as sprinters (maybe more) but Cavendish could step right in as stage sprinter leaving the others for the classics or helping with the lead-out, with Tony Martin.  Not too many noses put out of joint. 

Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2012, 08:14:29 am »

I'm trying to think where he'll end up. Is there a Belgian or Italian team without a strong sprinter? Or maybe a team with an established sprinter who'll have to move aside for His Cavship (with hilarious consequences)?

Personally, I think he'd be making a big mistake unless he could find a team that combines the level of technical support Sky offers its riders with the ability to provide a decent lead-out train (not OPQ, then), but that does not already have a decent sprinter. I can't think of one.

Be careful what you wish for, Mr Cavendish.
The journey is always more important than the destination

Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2012, 08:45:51 am »
My understanding is that Sky's ambitions are around winning Grand Tours.

It's difficult (to say the least) to do this and support a sprinter with a train. Dave B has already indicated that Cav would be free to go, if he got a good offer.

Cav hasn't got the best contract in the world with Sky, a lot was about the Olympic Road Race this year. He has 3, 4 maybe 5 years at the top to make some money. An extra £2million a year for 3 or 4 years will help to set him, and his family, up (and there's a new McLaren due out soon 8))

Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2012, 09:04:19 am »
All true, Giropaul, but where's he going to go? Can you see a team where he'd do better in cycling terms?
The journey is always more important than the destination

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2012, 09:12:12 am »
His target has to be the most number of TdF stages won, surely?
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

JT

  • Howay the lads!
    • CTC Peterborough
Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2012, 09:15:53 am »
I'm not convinced he'll go...

For a start there's the matter of who can afford him? Forget who doesn't have a sprinter, etc. - this is the most important consideration. OPQ is being bandied around because at the Tour de France, Cav's former HTC DS (and good friend) Brian Holm started telling everyone Cav was unhappy. Brian Holm is of course a DS at OPQ.  ::-)

Secondly, would Sky's plans have changed that much from when he signed for them to the Tour? Since their inception the team have stated that they were going for GC. OK there was some PR stuff at the start of this year about going for the Green jersey too but the way they lined up for, and the way they rode, Paris-Nice in March showed how they were going to tackle the Tour.

Cav won three stages at this year's Tour and was unlucky to crash in the finale of another - and we know from experience that if he's in the mix at that point he'll probably win. It's a measure of his quality that this is seen as failure in some way. Of course if the target is the Green jersey, then I suppose it is. In my opinion it's the changes to the points competition that have partly undone him at Sky as a team racing for GC cannot chase down breaks or delay a break getting away just to pick up the intermediate points. Which is ironic as the changes were designed specifically to enable a serial stage winner like Cav to win Green.

I don't think he has to move to win stages at grand tours or have another crack at Milan-San Remo, or races like Paris-Tours. But if he wants to move to win the Green jersey again, then he's going to have to find a team dedicated to him with the quality of riders that were at HTC. Then he has to hope Sagan isn't riding.
a great mind thinks alike

Rhys W

  • I'm single, bilingual
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Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2012, 09:17:58 am »
We've heard this before from Cav, a few years ago Sky was the team he wanted to join because it was where he could further his ambition. Maybe he's a bit restless. Plenty of sprint wins in him, whatever the jersey.

However, the most telling part of the article is this:

Quote
At Sky we have set a precedent now. If we are going to dominate cycling and win three grand tours in a year, we have to start building to that GC [general classification] thing. Unfortunately for Mark, as we saw in the Tour, the two don't really go well together.

Assuming that Froome stays and goes for the Vuelta, does this mean that Wiggins is aiming for the Giro-Tour double next year?

Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2012, 09:23:21 am »
Assuming that Froome stays and goes for the Vuelta, does this mean that Wiggins is aiming for the Giro-Tour double next year?

I think we'll see them target a rider for each Grand Tour.  So Wiggins for the Tour de France, Froome for the Vuelta and Someone Else for the Giro - someone who's a good climber and possibly not British.

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2012, 09:30:23 am »
Bikenrrd is probably right. And my bet would be that it would be an italian or spanish rider, given the target markets that the major sponsor has.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2012, 09:49:29 am »
Rigoberto Uran was their guy at the Giro this year (7th, +6 minutes and White Jersey) and seems to have plenty of potential with the right support, but it's not just the GC guy, but having the strength in depth to support their chosen guy (whoever he is) in each GT. Cav missed out on the Sprinter's Jersey by a single point, so it isn't impossible to combine your ambitions, just very difficult.
Allow me to explain through the medium of interpretive dance

LEE

Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2012, 09:51:51 am »
Then he has to hope Sagan isn't riding.

I think a team would do well to employ both Cav and Sagan.  They could clean up on the non-mountainous stages.  Sagan will dominate the long, hard sprints for a few years I think, whilst Cav could continue to grab the pure sprinter's stages (with Sagan assisting in the lead out).

The combination of Wiggins and Froome, going for GC, may force other teams to look to stage wins as their only chance of publicity.  Sagan and Cav are as good a bet as anyone for amassing stage wins, even more so if Cav is the focus of a team's ambitions.

Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2012, 10:29:32 am »
Cav hasn't got the best contract in the world with Sky, a lot was about the Olympic Road Race this year. He has 3, 4 maybe 5 years at the top to make some money. An extra £2million a year for 3 or 4 years will help to set him, and his family, up (and there's a new McLaren due out soon 8))

I was thinking his career had potentially another ten seasons. Think of sprinters like Zabel, Bettini, McEwen, and Cippolini who kept performing at the top of their game well into their late thirties. Though how long it will be before some as yet unknown youngster comes snapping at his heels, or he's simply had enough, is another matter I suppose,  (That Ferrari kid looked a bit frightening earlier this year when he caught Cav on the hop, or maybe he got lucky). 

I hadn't heard what Brian Holm had said post Tour about Cav being unhappy, but OPQ would still be my guess; I don't know why but OPQ feels more right for Cav than Sky is, or ever was (national loyalties aside). A historically strong sprinting team that's losing market presence in Grand Tour stage wins. I reckon the sponsors will happily dig deep to buy him out.
'Something....something.... Something about racing bicycles, but really a profound metaphor about life itself.'  Tim Krabbé. Possibly

Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2012, 12:09:50 pm »
Cavendish spent the period from 2007 to 2011 in the same team, it changed its name a few times, but it was the same German team. That team then folded, and Cav moved to the team with the most money.

JT

  • Howay the lads!
    • CTC Peterborough
Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2012, 12:40:29 pm »
Cavendish spent the period from 2007 to 2011 in the same team, it changed its name a few times, but it was the same German team. That team then folded, and Cav moved to the team with the most money.

BMC are the biggest budget team.

Sky had a lot more to offer Cav than just money. Rod Ellingworth's presence, is just one example.
a great mind thinks alike

Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2012, 01:04:08 pm »
BMC are the biggest budget team.


... which doesn't seem to have done them much good this year!
The journey is always more important than the destination

Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2012, 01:09:17 pm »
Looks like Sky have already lost one of their most valuable team members: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/flecha-to-leave-sky-for-vacansoleil
The journey is always more important than the destination

Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2012, 01:16:46 pm »
It's a bit difficult to disentagle the budget for the Sky Pro Team from the funding for British Cycling. Dave Brailsford is performance director for British Cycling as well as general manager of Team Sky.

An interesting story from 2007 emerged in this year's Tour coverage.

Quote
One of the reasons for Brailsford being here at the Tour, he explains – and apart from riding l'Etape du Tour in a few days' time – is to negotiate some of the British riders' contracts. He is almost, it seems, acting as their agent, which is curious. But this too has highlighted a problem – or an opportunity. The problem is that the riders are contracted to, and under the control of, teams that operate independently of British Cycling, and with fundamentally different – even opposed – priorities.

They are not, for example, remotely interested in the Olympics.

Which is a problem for Brailsford, and a frustration. The riders in question, with Cavendish and Thomas to the fore, have been nurtured and developed by British Cycling.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/22/tour-de-france-bradley-wiggins-star


Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2012, 01:26:26 pm »
It's worth remembering that if Cav is the nominated rider for a win at the Worlds we will see a rerun of the Olympics. A hint of dissent stirs the pot up a bit.

Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2012, 01:36:16 pm »
Sky had a lot more to offer Cav than just money. Rod Ellingworth's presence, is just one example.

And he has gained from this experience so now he can move on.

Willing to bet a large sum of money that Cav will be leaving Sky.

Wiggins has suggested it is a sensible move and Brailsford has said he would neither stand in the way or make life difficult; both are laying the foundations for a move.

Where to is another question, but no doubt whatsoever that he will be leaving. 

Anyone up for a bet on Cav leaving?

Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2012, 02:58:26 pm »
Anyone up for a bet on Cav leaving?

IMHO he'll probably leave sooner or later. Whether this will be good for him is another matter.
The journey is always more important than the destination

Justin(e)

  • On my way out of here
Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2012, 03:11:19 pm »
Anyone up for a bet on Cav leaving?

Greenedge anyone?

They have the train, they just need someone to finish off all the hard work.

I know it is an Australian team, and there is a certain level of frisson between the two nations, but the logic is there.  Not all the riders are Ozzie anyway.

Depends on how deep the owner wants to put his hand in his pockets. 

Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2012, 03:32:43 pm »
It's a bit difficult to disentagle the budget for the Sky Pro Team from the funding for British Cycling.

Sky Pro Cycling's budget.  They only have 3 full-time staff.

Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2012, 03:54:17 pm »
It's a bit difficult to disentagle the budget for the Sky Pro Team from the funding for British Cycling.

Sky Pro Cycling's budget.  They only have 3 full-time staff.


Just sayin' but early last year I was on a commercial for Sky with Andy Gray and Richard Keys* (a week before the 'lineswoman' hoo-haa resulting in their sacking) and spoke to one of their marketing directors who informed me Sky's spend on cycling was about £11 million for that year, which seems to roughly correlate with the article from Inrng - who seems to be the go-to purveyor of pro-cycling gossip at the moment.

*yes, I'm name-dropping  ;D
'Something....something.... Something about racing bicycles, but really a profound metaphor about life itself.'  Tim Krabbé. Possibly

Re: Will Cav be OffSki?
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2012, 05:27:06 pm »
Deloitte were commissioned to look into the overlap between Team Sky and British Cycling.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/mar/16/team-sky-british-cycling
They probably liked what they saw because they ended up sponsoring an End to End.
http://www.rideacrossbritain.com/