Poll

Is golf a sport?

Yes
27 (33.8%)
No
53 (66.3%)

Total Members Voted: 76

Author Topic: Golf: sport or not  (Read 13083 times)

Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2012, 02:06:01 pm »
Yes.  The side-effects of golf are even worse when chunks of pristine land are gobbled up (e.g. Trump, passim), or people's water supplies intercepted to irrigate (usually relatively) people's play (e.g. abroad mainly).

I do think the world has enough golf courses.

To a certain extent I'd agree. But natural and semi-natural grassland is a valuable habitat that is under threat. The principal reservoirs of that habitat are road verges and golf courses. At least 50% of a golf course will be rough. Disturbance is focused on the fairways and greens. Ground nesting birds benefit from the lack of dog walking.

When courses are built on existing areas with intrinsic interest, conditions can be imposed on the planning consent covering irrigation, grass species, the use of chemicals and the management regime for semi-natural areas.
I can understand people's aesthetic concerns about large areas being set aside for private recreation. They may also feel that nature is our common heritage, to which we should all have access. But nature doesn't think like that, it doesn't want to be disturbed, and golf courses are less disturbed than parks.

The role of golf courses in nature conservation in urban areas is illustrated in this English Nature outline of nature conservation in the Brent Valley.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.naturalengland.org.uk%2FImages%2F16-brent_tcm6-14423.pdf&ei=D8i0UPyXDsrI0AWm64GIAQ&usg=AFQjCNE1GVLDg5LOPn2twUI1VbnWRurmxg

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2012, 02:24:57 pm »
Round here - affordable housing for key workers would be a step in the right direction.  Maybe a couple of school playing fields, some more allotments and a new library.  Hell, we've got three golf courses within a ten minute walk of our front door here in UB6.  Nobody needs that many opportunities to hit their little dimpled balls with expensive sticks.

I think Messrs Pooley and O'Malley have prior art on an appropriate solution...   ;D
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

RJ

  • Droll rat
Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2012, 02:29:35 pm »
Yes.  The side-effects of golf are even worse when chunks of pristine land are gobbled up (e.g. Trump, passim), or people's water supplies intercepted to irrigate (usually relatively) people's play (e.g. abroad mainly).

I do think the world has enough golf courses.

To a certain extent I'd agree. But natural and semi-natural grassland is a valuable habitat that is under threat.
So if it's not broke, don't "fix" it with a golf course.
Quote
The principal reservoirs of that habitat are road verges and golf courses.
  Not natural grassland. 
Quote
At least 50% of a golf course will be rough.
  Golf "rough" does not necessarily = "natural".
Quote
Disturbance is focused on the fairways and greens. Ground nesting birds benefit from the lack of dog walking.
  :-\

Quote
When courses are built on existing areas with intrinsic interest, conditions can be imposed on the planning consent covering irrigation, grass species, the use of chemicals and the management regime for semi-natural areas.
  Planning conditions may mitigate impacts.  They don't make a fundamentally bad decision right.  (That's a general statement that applies to planning conditions, and does not specifically relate to Trump, or any other golf course consent).  It is possible to build a golf course and improve things - the new course at Machrihanish is an example.  However, it's also posisbly to cause monumental amounts of environmental damage.
Quote
I can understand people's aesthetic concerns about large areas being set aside for private recreation.
  Not really aesthetics.  Highland "sporting" estates spring to mind - landscapes whose widely perceived "beauty" is independent of their widely deplored ownership model and dubious management ethics.
Quote
They may also feel that nature is our common heritage, to which we should all have access.
  In Scotland we do all have access.  See here:  http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2003/2/part/1 
Quote
But nature doesn't think like that, it doesn't want to be disturbed, and golf courses are less disturbed than parks.

The role of golf courses in nature conservation in urban areas is illustrated in this English Nature outline of nature conservation in the Brent Valley.

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.naturalengland.org.uk%2FImages%2F16-brent_tcm6-14423.pdf&ei=D8i0UPyXDsrI0AWm64GIAQ&usg=AFQjCNE1GVLDg5LOPn2twUI1VbnWRurmxg
That all depends on your golf course, park and what you're using as a control ...

As I've said elsewhere, as far as I can tell (on the basis of some serious, real-life digging), the nature conservation benefits of golf courses, if and where it occurs, is largely incidental.  The fact that some golf courses have some nature conservation interest is not really a defence of golf.

Charlotte

  • Dissolute libertine
  • Here's to ol' D.H. Lawrence...
    • charlottebarnes.co.uk
Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2012, 02:35:11 pm »
I think Messrs Pooley and O'Malley have prior art on an appropriate solution...   ;D

I've not read the Brentford Chainstore Massacre.  What do they do?
Commercial, Editorial and PR Photographer - www.charlottebarnes.co.uk

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2012, 02:38:36 pm »
I think Messrs Pooley and O'Malley have prior art on an appropriate solution...   ;D

I've not read the Brentford Chainstore Massacre.  What do they do?

Brentford Triangle:

Quote from: http://www.sproutlore.com/reviews/reviews.php?review=9
Take a normal object like a golf club, a golf ball and add them to an allotment complete with sheds and water butts and a host of vegetables and you get to see Rankin's genius at work. Pooley and Omally have been banned from every corporation golf course, so they result to using the local allotments for their ball whacking fun. Complete with rule book to make sure neither of them cheats and a quick escape route in case someone spots them, the happy golfers spend many an hour smashing the heads off of carrots and mashing plenty of sprout. But, as you can expect this is just a diversion for them. For once again, there is trouble ahead.

It's been a while since I read it, but the description of Allotment Golf includes one of the most creative uses of a butt that I've encountered outside of the NSFW board.

Anyone interested in taking up allotment golf is extremely welcome to have a go at our back garden with the now legendary 7 iron, btw.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2012, 02:47:34 pm »
As I've said elsewhere, as far as I can tell (on the basis of some serious, real-life digging), the nature conservation benefits of golf courses, if and where it occurs, is largely incidental.  The fact that some golf courses have some nature conservation interest is not really a defence of golf.

It might help if your searches referred to 'Semi-Natural' rather than 'Natural' grassland, also try not to use 'pristine', these are terms which are out of fashion, and will generate skewed results.

RJ

  • Droll rat
Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2012, 02:55:39 pm »
As I've said elsewhere, as far as I can tell (on the basis of some serious, real-life digging), the nature conservation benefits of golf courses, if and where it occurs, is largely incidental.  The fact that some golf courses have some nature conservation interest is not really a defence of golf.

It might help if your searches referred to 'Semi-Natural' rather than 'Natural' grassland, also try not to use 'pristine', these are terms which are out of fashion, and will generate skewed results.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teaching_grandmother_to_suck_eggs.  Quite possibly.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2012, 03:26:47 pm »
Agree with all but the motor-racing comment. Having done it, I can confirm that it requires a lot of exertion and results are definitely proportional to fitness, all else being equal.
Motor racing only gets to be a sport if you do it in a Flintstones car and have to make the car go by your own effort.

You saw my racing rig back in the day?

Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2012, 03:29:46 pm »
As I've said elsewhere, as far as I can tell (on the basis of some serious, real-life digging), the nature conservation benefits of golf courses, if and where it occurs, is largely incidental.  The fact that some golf courses have some nature conservation interest is not really a defence of golf.

It might help if your searches referred to 'Semi-Natural' rather than 'Natural' grassland, also try not to use 'pristine', these are terms which are out of fashion, and will generate skewed results.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teaching_grandmother_to_suck_eggs.  Quite possibly.


Grandmothers sometimes lose their short term memories, they know how to suck eggs, but forget what they said half an hour ago.

Yes.  The side-effects of golf are even worse when chunks of pristine land are gobbled up (e.g. Trump, passim), or people's water supplies intercepted to irrigate (usually relatively) people's play (e.g. abroad mainly).

I do think the world has enough golf courses.

To a certain extent I'd agree. But natural and semi-natural grassland is a valuable habitat that is under threat.
So if it's not broke, don't "fix" it with a golf course.
Quote
The principal reservoirs of that habitat are road verges and golf courses.
  Not natural grassland. 
Quote
At least 50% of a golf course will be rough.
  Golf "rough" does not necessarily = "natural".
Quote
Disturbance is focused on the fairways and greens. Ground nesting birds benefit from the lack of dog walking.
  :-\


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/8564548.stm

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2012, 03:31:43 pm »
Of course, like most things in life, it's rather like hedgelaying...
Getting there...

Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #60 on: November 27, 2012, 03:39:02 pm »
Of course, like most things in life, it's rather like hedgelaying...

That's a surprisingly perceptive comment Clarion.

Hedgelaying is the new golf in some ways. It's frequently featured on Countryfile. Sunday night TV programmes tend to generate increased interest in activities. We're having to up the number of training courses, obviously it's using an axe rather than a club, but the same muscle groups are brought into play.


RJ

  • Droll rat
Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2012, 03:42:55 pm »
Of course, like most things in life, it's rather like hedgelaying...

TwistedInterwoven?  Possibly  :demon:

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2012, 03:47:04 pm »
In general, I cannot envisage a tight enough set of rules to include cycling but exclude chess/golf/motorsport - nevertheless, I know sport when I see it. And I know a game.


Agree with all but the motor-racing comment. Having done it, I can confirm that it requires a lot of exertion and results are definitely proportional to fitness, all else being equal.

...but they almost never are equal.

Motorsport is often a fine, entertaining contest for brave people - but I can't call it a 'proper' sport. It is NOT primarily about the fitness levels of the drivers.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #63 on: November 27, 2012, 03:48:59 pm »
If golf is a sport, so is darts.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #64 on: November 27, 2012, 03:49:50 pm »
A sport that was all about the fitness levels of the competitors would be extremely dull.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #65 on: November 27, 2012, 03:53:25 pm »
Of course, like most things in life, it's rather like hedgelaying...

Swiss Toni would like a word with you about that.  :demon:
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster.
And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #66 on: November 27, 2012, 03:55:18 pm »
If golf is a sport, so is darts.
I am tempted to include snooker and darts as sports on the grounds that Scotland's quite good at them. Scotland's good at anything you play in a pub.
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #67 on: November 27, 2012, 03:59:57 pm »
Of course, like most things in life, it's rather like hedgelaying...

Swiss Toni would like a word with you about that.  :demon:


More likely Ralph and Ted.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/dEBdi6Xffd0&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/dEBdi6Xffd0&rel=1</a>

Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #68 on: November 27, 2012, 04:55:57 pm »
If golf is a sport, so is darts.

Seeing as Phil Taylor came second in 2010, the BBC would agree with you...
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Euan Uzami

Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #69 on: November 27, 2012, 05:22:47 pm »
I feel the same about farms.

I don't understand.  What's bad about farms?

Easy - same thing as golf, they consume shedloads of land. More, in fact!

RJ

  • Droll rat
Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #70 on: November 27, 2012, 05:24:22 pm »
Hmmm.  You can't eat golf.

Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #71 on: November 27, 2012, 07:59:10 pm »
Hmmm.  You can't eat golf.

You can if they're grazing the rough, and you aren't a vegetarian.

Euan Uzami

Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #72 on: November 27, 2012, 09:26:10 pm »
Hmmm.  You can't eat golf.

But at least britain is pretty good at it.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #73 on: November 28, 2012, 10:45:19 am »
Of course, like most things in life, it's rather like hedgelaying...

That's a surprisingly perceptive comment Clarion.

Hedgelaying is the new golf in some ways. It's frequently featured on Countryfile. Sunday night TV programmes tend to generate increased interest in activities. We're having to up the number of training courses, obviously it's using an axe rather than a club, but the same muscle groups are brought into play.
The 1930s and 40s are in fashion, I look forward to the next series of OS maps, whose covers will feature a hedgelayer in barbour, hiviz and ear defenders, with his mucky green SUV and flailer in one corner.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Golf: sport or not
« Reply #74 on: November 28, 2012, 12:34:15 pm »
Of course, like most things in life, it's rather like hedgelaying...

That's a surprisingly perceptive comment Clarion.

Hedgelaying is the new golf in some ways. It's frequently featured on Countryfile. Sunday night TV programmes tend to generate increased interest in activities. We're having to up the number of training courses, obviously it's using an axe rather than a club, but the same muscle groups are brought into play.
The 1930s and 40s are in fashion, I look forward to the next series of OS maps, whose covers will feature a hedgelayer in barbour, hiviz and ear defenders, with his mucky green SUV and flailer in one corner.


I was at the gym last night. I need to take exercise at a specific rate at the moment.
On one of the TV screens there was a generic presenter bloke doing a walky talky piece to camera.

He was wearing a tunic length Barbour motorbike jacket of the exact type I had when I was 18. It wasn't fashionable then, leather jackets were 'Punk' and Barbours were what old men and serious bikers wore, Belstaffs were slightly more acceptable because they had patches in the right places.

Barbours seem to have made a comeback because Steve McQueen rode the 1964 ISDT in a Barbour International. Everything I've ever done seems to be coming back to haunt me in the form of a moody black and white movie, with people looking off meaningfully into the distance.

I've never played Golf though, and Hoggs are the favoured brand of waterproof for those who work outside, Barbours stiffen up in the cold and restrict movement.

http://www.barbour.com/feature/75-years-international