Author Topic: EVIL cameras are about to land...  (Read 2320 times)

EVIL cameras are about to land...
« on: August 05, 2008, 12:58:43 pm »
Have your cake and eat it?  Seems like exciting news, particularly for those who value compact design.   Olympus / Panasonic announce Micro Four Thirds: Digital Photography Review

BTW, EVIL = Electronic Viewfinder Interchangeable Lens   :)
"an inordinate fondness for beetles"

Re: EVIL cameras are about to land...
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2008, 01:40:39 pm »
Digital 'rangefinders' here we come... :)  and with Pany's involvement, I guess, so is Leica?
"an inordinate fondness for beetles"

Re: EVIL cameras are about to land...
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2008, 01:44:33 pm »
I really hate EVFs.  Peering through the thing it looks OK, or as good as you expect, but when you actually get the image up on a computer you realise that the sodding autofocus has decided to lock onto something else entirely and the image is as blurred as a very blurry thing. >:(
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Regulator

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Re: EVIL cameras are about to land...
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2008, 01:56:02 pm »
Looking at the thread title, I thought Andy had joined SafeSpeed....  ;D
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I completely agree with Reg.

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Re: EVIL cameras are about to land...
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2008, 01:57:27 pm »
I really hate EVFs.  Peering through the thing it looks OK, or as good as you expect, but when you actually get the image up on a computer you realise that the sodding autofocus has decided to lock onto something else entirely and the image is as blurred as a very blurry thing. >:(

The EVF would have to be good to be tempting, I agree, but then these cameras would presumably have 3" LCD live view panel, which might be high res, and gain up well in bright light.  Probably a great travel camera, and possibly also with HD video...?
"an inordinate fondness for beetles"

Re: EVIL cameras are about to land...
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2008, 07:26:14 pm »
Peering through the thing it looks OK, or as good as you expect, but when you actually get the image up on a computer you realise that the sodding autofocus has decided to lock onto something else entirely and the image is as blurred as a very blurry thing. >:(

Sounds just like a four thirds SLR viewfinder :P  They're teeny!  I find manual focus on my D40x more dependent on the focus confirmation light than the actual image in the viewfinder.

This is one of the best arguments for pushing down the price of full frame technology.

Re: EVIL cameras are about to land...
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2008, 07:31:08 pm »
that looks bloody great - I was looking forward to the Panasonic LX3 (finally, a new camera with *fewer* pixels) but that looks great for a travel camera.

Re: EVIL cameras are about to land...
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2008, 07:37:18 pm »
I guess it depends on how good your vision is, and how good the EVF is.  On my old Minolta Dimage 7Hi the EVF had 71000 pixels, which is something like 300x200, even the rear screen wasn't a lot better at around 400x300.  For an image which is 2560x1920 you're render each pixel from 7 to 9 pixels on the real image, you simply can't see if the image is quite badly blurred.

With an SLR you have a damned good idea if things are in focus or not, although admittedly it also depends on lighting, and whether you can view the image with the correct aperture, and consequently correct depth of field.

Of course, if the autofocus does a good job, then most of the time this isn't going to be a problem.
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
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Re: EVIL cameras are about to land...
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2008, 12:20:34 pm »
Sounds just like a four thirds SLR viewfinder :P  They're teeny!  I find manual focus on my D40x more dependent on the focus confirmation light than the actual image in the viewfinder.

Well, it looks as though the new EVF (on the Panasonic G1) really will be a big leap better than anything previously seen on a consumer still camera.  Pixellation small enough to be invisible, 60fps refresh rate and all magnified to give a view much larger than that on the 4/3 SLRs. 
Plus this camera seems almost optimised for manual focus - can optionally be set so that as soon as you move the focus ring on the lens the viewfinder switches to 5x or 10x magnification.  Presumably only with the new dedicated lenses though - any 'compatibility' with existing 4/3 lenses seems very limited, this really is just a whole new standard which could easily die in the water if another manufacturer decides to compete and undercut with something similar, maybe do it even better.  What it needs is for someone to rush out an adaptor for Leica M-series lenses ...
"This is a complex subject, with a need for more than one highlighter pen."

Re: EVIL cameras are about to land...
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2008, 07:16:58 pm »
What it needs is for someone to rush out an adaptor for Leica M-series lenses ...

With a lens flange to sensor distance of 20mm, adaptors to physically fit most other brand lenses will be easy - just short extension tubes with a different mount at each end. The difficulty will be translating autofocus and aperture signals, and whether the camera will work at all if if can't talk to the lens properly.

Re: EVIL cameras are about to land...
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2008, 07:47:07 pm »
Panasonic say it will work with current 4/3rds lenses but not as well as the ones designed for micro 4/3rds.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: EVIL cameras are about to land...
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2008, 12:32:58 pm »
The difficulty will be translating autofocus and aperture signals, and whether the camera will work at all if if can't talk to the lens properly.

I think I read somewhere that the camera can shoot without a lens attached, so any old lens should be OK provided it has focus and aperture rings, using the camera in A-mode and manually focussing in a bright viewfinder with magnification.  That sounds nice to me - in theory I can do all this with my Olympus DSLR (I've got several adaptors for Zeiss, Nikon etc) but as mentioned above the 4/3 viewfinder isn't really good enough for manual focussing.

I think pricing is going to be the problem with this baby though.  It seems likely to be a lot more expensive than existing entry-level DSLRs so the advantages are going to have to be very real for it to carve a niche alongside say the mid-level DSLRs which are pretty desirable things in their own right.
Smaller size? - the G1 is not as small as it could be, a mistake in my opinion.
'Better' viewfinder? - well yes, I believe in that, but not everyone is going to buy into this concept.
4/3 compatibilty? - maybe a bit compromised and in any case is largely pointless - carrying a kit of Oly lenses just negates the whole 'small camera' thing.  m4/3 works as a new system or not at all, and that's where it suddenly looks expensive.
Potential for mounting all sorts of other stuff is very interesting - but it needs in-body IS to make the most of that.
"This is a complex subject, with a need for more than one highlighter pen."

Re: EVIL cameras are about to land...
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2008, 04:04:04 pm »
I was quite excited about the idea of a mini SLR but think that this isnt quite mini enough and doesnt have good enough lenses to make it 'better enough' over something like a panasonic LX3 or canon G9.   I guess I should keep saving for a Leica... :(



Re: EVIL cameras are about to land...
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2008, 04:34:11 pm »
I was quite excited about the idea of a mini SLR but think that this isnt quite mini enough and doesnt have good enough lenses to make it 'better enough' over something like a panasonic LX3 or canon G9.   I guess I should keep saving for a Leica... :(

Yes, I'm not sure really.  It could be that the lenses are essentially the same as the 'Leica' they use, except without the name.  As I understand it - Panasonic's 'Leica' lenses, such as on my FZ5, are built to authorised Leica spec, but not actually lovingly crafted in Germany :)

The fact is that increasing sensor area mean increasing lens size, but m4/3 lenses are a lot smaller than the 4/3 lenses.  I'm tempted to wait until Christmas when this dSLR price crash* is supposed to kick in, get a D90, and then if some amazing 2nd generation m4/3, Pana, Oly, or nikon APS offerings appear in 2009, consider a swap (sell up on ebay)...


*possibly.  ;)  News Discussion Forum: Digital Photography Review
"an inordinate fondness for beetles"