Author Topic: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...  (Read 7891 times)

TimC

  • Bike pilot
Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« on: December 13, 2012, 12:42:24 pm »
It seems Bradley wants to defend his TdF title, despite all the 'Brad for the Giro, Froomey for the Tour' talk...

Beeb story.

Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2012, 01:18:03 pm »
It seems Bradley wants to defend his TdF title, despite all the 'Brad for the Giro, Froomey for the Tour' talk...

Beeb story.

Sky are bound to be in a better position if the opposition don't know who to cover, and we haven't seen the best of Thomas yet.

Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2012, 07:40:27 pm »
Thomas could probably do with getting some miles in his legs first and has already
said that he is targeting the spring classics. The Sky team for TDU reflects the same
with Hayman, Eisel, EBH and Thomas lining up.

Add in the new signings of Kiryienka and Rasch, with the Columbians for the Ardennes plus
maybe Boswell and Dombrowski and the Sky classics squad looks more than
interesting this year.

Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2012, 07:49:55 pm »
I hadn't appreciated before that Thomas had done the fastest 4,000m pursuit time under current rules.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2012, 09:30:19 pm »
If Brad dared to suggest publicly that he wasn't going to attempt to defend the TdF, he would be accused of disrespect. If someone asks him the question, of course that's what he's going to say. I'm taking his comments with a pinch of salt.

I'm rather hoping we get a battle royale à la 1986, with Brad in the Hinault role constantly attacking Bertie in order to "help" Froome. The question is whether Froome is really up to performing the Lemond role. And how Bertie will react to being cast in the Fignon role.

I think I've made my feelings about Geraint Thomas quite plain before now. A rider with massive potential. He could be a plan B if it goes wrong for Froome but I'm assuming Froome will be the main man for Sky in the TdF this year.

d.

Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2012, 09:50:03 pm »
Thomas could probably do with getting some miles in his legs first and has already
said that he is targeting the spring classics. The Sky team for TDU reflects the same
with Hayman, Eisel, EBH and Thomas lining up.

Add in the new signings of Kiryienka and Rasch, with the Columbians for the Ardennes plus
maybe Boswell and Dombrowski and the Sky classics squad looks more than
interesting this year.

John Tiernan Locke's old boss at Endura, Brian Smith, reckons he has potential for the Ardennes classics.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2012, 10:15:35 pm »
Will be very interesting to see how JTL handles the step up in class. He has the ability but his lack of experience at this level might be a factor, no?

d.

Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2012, 10:36:25 am »
Must admit i had forgotten about JTL  :facepalm:

As Citoyen says has he got the class, and the engine at the START of the season to make the impact
at the classics as he did in the worlds ?

Anyone know if they've moved the finish of the Milan-San Remo next year to the bottom of the Poggio ??

Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2012, 05:47:13 pm »
Was Wiggo given an option to defend his title? 
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2012, 06:02:38 pm »
Not Hinault and Lemond again (86 Tour).

They should be in different teams.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2012, 06:17:18 pm »
Was Wiggo given an option to defend his title?

No, but only in the same way that he was arguably handed the title this year.

d.

Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2012, 10:53:07 am »
Arguably Chris Frome winning Le Tour in 2013 (with Wiggo in the team) would be more of a 'manufactured' result, given BW's physiological advantage and dominance in the TT... perhaps even given the more mountainous content *

*warning, I'm no TdF expert ;-)
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2012, 11:09:41 am »
Don't think this would be the case. 2012 course suited Wiggins, lots of TT and not too much in the way of brutal climbing that would unseat him.

2013 course suits an explosive climber like Contadope and maybe Froome.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2012, 09:47:23 pm »
Arguably a Froome win would do more for cycling in Britain than a second Wiggo win. The ideal of course would be Froome in yellow, Wigg second, and Cav in green! :o
A cup of tea is the perfect bridge between real life and cake.

Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2012, 12:16:44 pm »
Is it too much to think that BW could train specifically for a higher mountain content, or would it be too much of a gamble for SKY?  Was Miguel Indurain a much better climber than Wiggo?  AFAIA Wiggo & Indurain have/had similar VO2 max and resting pulse rates.
Destroying rainforest for economic gain is like burning a Renaissance painting to cook a meal.  EOW.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2012, 12:51:40 pm »
Indurain always rode to limit his losses in the mountains, he could never keep up with the likes of Pantani on the really steep slopes.

Wiggo did lots of mountain training this year but he'll never have the physique to be an explosive attacking climber of the likes of Contador or an on-form Andy Schleck. On the other hand, like Cadel Evans, he can allow explosive attacks to get away but gradually reel them back in at his own pace...

He lost 37 seconds to Contador on the Ventoux in 2009 and finished >6mins behind him overall. Has he improved enough as a climber since then to be able to limit his losses enough on the big mountains?

d.

Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2012, 01:03:38 pm »
He lost 37 seconds to Contador on the Ventoux in 2009 and finished >6mins behind him overall. Has he improved enough as a climber since then to be able to limit his losses enough on the big mountains?

d.

Is that time difference assuming Contador was clean?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2012, 01:07:28 pm »
Are you assuming Bradley is?
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2012, 01:13:43 pm »
One of them is a convicted drugs cheat.

The other one isn't.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2012, 01:17:22 pm »
How about we just wait a decade or so for the real answers?
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2012, 01:23:56 pm »
Indurain was the product of a certain stage in the development of cycle racing science. All the elements came together to allow him to dominate. The optimum cyclists were big and strong, but slimmed down to allow them to climb. Riis and Ullrich were in the same mould. Pantani was a blip, an anomoly. Armstrong was a mobile pharmacological test bed, whose importance to the sport allowed him to concentrate on very specific training regimes.
Brad, and many other Sky riders, are competition-proven riders with big engines, the Olympic medals on the track prove that. They are the raw materials for the science to turn into winners. The most intriguing thing for me is the psychology. Brad is just very likeable, especially for the pro peloton. But he's also a bit vulnerable, which makes him malleable, and a bit prone to collapse. Managing those factors so that he can function as a patron is the interesting bit. Froome is more lieutenant material, Geraint could fill the role of patron.

Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2012, 02:19:37 pm »
Are you assuming Bradley is?

He struggles too much on the big climbs to be doping. Whilst he's not a specialist climber he's not a million miles off, so why would he not be producing monster times up the big stuff if he was doping?

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2012, 02:42:56 pm »
Is that time difference assuming Contador was clean?

I've just looked up a report of that day's stage to refresh my memory. It was actually 25 seconds. That's just a statement of fact. Draw your own conclusions.

Of course, it wasn't really a battle between Wiggins and Contador that day anyway, so probably not reliable as a pointer of what might happen in next year's TdF, regardless of who is or isn't riding clean.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-de-france-2009/stage-20/results

d.

TimC

  • Bike pilot
Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2012, 03:47:13 pm »
How about we just wait a decade or so for the real answers?

Because those of us who believe in a clean Bradley would like to enjoy his performances now, as they happen. Because a YouTube video in 10 years time, with us saying, 'Oh, maybe he was clean after all', is not the same thing. Because to do otherwise would be to give up on the sport - which I assume you have already done, so why bother commenting?

Re: Wiggo ain't going gracefully...
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2012, 04:47:45 pm »
How about we just wait a decade or so for the real answers?

We know Contador has cheated. We don't know Bradley has.

We don't need to wait 10 years to know this, we can know it now.