Author Topic: Zero Dark Thirty  (Read 1909 times)

Charlotte

  • Dissolute libertine
  • Here's to ol' D.H. Lawrence...
    • charlottebarnes.co.uk
Zero Dark Thirty
« on: 17 January, 2013, 12:04:19 pm »
tl;dr – I watched Zero Dark Thirty so you didn’t have to.

It’ll be released in the UK on the 25th, but thanks to the magic of the internet, I watched this last night from the comfort of my own home.  I had seen the trailers and read a little about it beforehand, but nothing could prepare me for just how bad this movie truly is.

It opens with a totally dark screen and snippets from recorded emergency from the people trapped in the World Trade Centre buildings during 9/11.  Cut to a CIA dark site and approximately ten minutes of unexpurgated torture of some brown bloke by a bunch of white guys, with an only just slightly shocked Jessica Chastain looking on.  He gets strung up from the ceiling, punched, waterboarded and sexually humiliated.  Later on in the film, they deprive him of sleep for days on end, force feed him and put him in a tiny wooden box.  The main torture dude keeps on saying, “when you lie to me, bro’ - I hurt you”. It’s not very nice. 

The film goes on to tell the story of how Jessica Chastain’s character, CIA agent Maya, single-handedly locates UBL (as the CIA love to call him) by systematically capturing and torturing his associates.  As the years pass and ‘Merica elects a new president, torturing detainees becomes frowned upon.  Maya is warned not to be the “last CIA field agent holding a dog collar when the congressional committees start investigating”.  This hampers her work no end.

Then she gets a lucky break and dredges up some old information which points her towards a courier who might lead her to Uncle Osama.  Months of painstaking fieldwork ensure, along with the sort of storyline and dialogue which were so improbable as to be laughable.  Lots of slamming files down on desks and shouting goddamit at people.  At one point, she describes herself to the CIA director as, “the motherfucker who found this, Sir”.

The last half hour or so is a very predictable gung-ho set piece featuring black helicopters (sorry – ‘helos’) and a Seal team with lots of guns.  You all know the story, so I won’t bore you.  Watch out for the bit where the solder who plugs Bin Laden reports his death by radio by saying, “for God and for country”.  That was a nice touch.

ZDT is bombast, propaganda and utter, utter horseshit.  It glorifies torture but then goes onto prove how it’s possible to triumph even when you’re not allowed to repeatedly make people think they’re being drowned.  It’s an appallingly over-simplified narrative – relying on the point of view of a few one-dimensional characters and spectacularly failing to show the massive machine of the United States intelligence services in anything like a realistic light.
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clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
« Reply #1 on: 17 January, 2013, 12:14:11 pm »
But it's a feminist movie!  It's directed by a woman, and there's a woman as the lead character.  And, as for the accuracy of the research, Bigelow says she trusts the writer. 

And, of course, torture works.  Possibly.

So that's that one sorted out, then.

(source: Bigelow's improbable nonsense-spouting in Guardian interview last week)
Getting there...

Pancho

  • لَا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
« Reply #2 on: 17 January, 2013, 12:17:30 pm »
Thanks for the social service, Charlotte. I was almost tempted to go and see this. You've saved me the cost of a cinema ticket.

RJ

  • Droll rat
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
« Reply #3 on: 17 January, 2013, 12:48:50 pm »
But it's a feminist movie!  It's directed by a woman, and there's a woman as the lead character. 

Depressing, isn't it, that the way to get furthest ahead as a female director in Holywood seems to be to out-macho the blokes?

</massive oversimplification>

tonycollinet

  • No Longer a western province of Númenor
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
« Reply #4 on: 17 January, 2013, 01:10:50 pm »
Thanks for the social service, Charlotte. I was almost tempted to go and see this. You've saved me the cost of a cinema ticket.

+1

Re: Zero Dark Thirty
« Reply #5 on: 17 January, 2013, 01:49:47 pm »
Hm. Sounds suspiciously like Homeland, which is equally shit and propagandist.
Have you seen my blog? It has words. And pictures! http://ablogofallthingskathy.blogspot.com/

Pancho

  • لَا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
« Reply #6 on: 17 January, 2013, 01:57:30 pm »
Hm. Sounds suspiciously like Homeland, which is equally shit and propagandist.

Don't talk about Homeland - I've got it on CD and don't want to know what happens (Series 1 or 2)!

Two episodes in, it doesn't seem too shit yet.

Re: Zero Dark Thirty
« Reply #7 on: 17 January, 2013, 02:38:19 pm »
ha!

halfway through season 1, Neil has a homo-erotic encounter. Iona, his supposed love-interest, gets suspicious about his behaviour and waterboards him to find out what is going on. Meanwhile, Bruce has been od-ing on caffeine mints while analysing Internet traffic. He goes postal but due to an awful miscalculation, arms himself with a nerf gun and is shot by a holidaying New York cop.

Stricken with grief for torturing Neil, Iona falls into the arms of a fem fatale and the season ends with a tantalising lesbian kiss. Will they, won't they?  Is the fem fatale really a terrrurist? You'll have to wait for Season 2

<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Zero Dark Thirty
« Reply #8 on: 17 January, 2013, 04:34:28 pm »
For some reason, they filmed some of the Langley scenes in the UK, I have to watch it to try spot my friends.

Bigelow only out machoed the guys on point break. Hurt locker just confused me.

Re: Zero Dark Thirty
« Reply #9 on: 18 January, 2013, 09:51:51 am »
Well it is aimed at the american market, they'll love it. didn't this Gulf War genre start with "black hawk down" another pile of propaganda bollox,
I don't watch these films for the reasons stated above they are crap!

Jacomus

  • My favourite gender neutral pronoun is comrade
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
« Reply #10 on: 18 January, 2013, 03:29:58 pm »
tl;dr – I watched Zero Dark Thirty so you didn’t have to.

It’ll be released in the UK on the 25th, but thanks to the magic of the internet, I watched this last night from the comfort of my own home.  I had seen the trailers and read a little about it beforehand, but nothing could prepare me for just how bad this movie truly is.

It opens with a totally dark screen and snippets from recorded emergency from the people trapped in the World Trade Centre buildings during 9/11.  Cut to a CIA dark site and approximately ten minutes of unexpurgated torture of some brown bloke by a bunch of white guys, with an only just slightly shocked Jessica Chastain looking on.  He gets strung up from the ceiling, punched, waterboarded and sexually humiliated.  Later on in the film, they deprive him of sleep for days on end, force feed him and put him in a tiny wooden box.  The main torture dude keeps on saying, “when you lie to me, bro’ - I hurt you”. It’s not very nice. 

The film goes on to tell the story of how Jessica Chastain’s character, CIA agent Maya, single-handedly locates UBL (as the CIA love to call him) by systematically capturing and torturing his associates.  As the years pass and ‘Merica elects a new president, torturing detainees becomes frowned upon.  Maya is warned not to be the “last CIA field agent holding a dog collar when the congressional committees start investigating”.  This hampers her work no end.

Then she gets a lucky break and dredges up some old information which points her towards a courier who might lead her to Uncle Osama.  Months of painstaking fieldwork ensure, along with the sort of storyline and dialogue which were so improbable as to be laughable.  Lots of slamming files down on desks and shouting goddamit at people.  At one point, she describes herself to the CIA director as, “the motherfucker who found this, Sir”.

The last half hour or so is a very predictable gung-ho set piece featuring black helicopters (sorry – ‘helos’) and a Seal team with lots of guns.  You all know the story, so I won’t bore you.  Watch out for the bit where the solder who plugs Bin Laden reports his death by radio by saying, “for God and for country”.  That was a nice touch.

ZDT is bombast, propaganda and utter, utter horseshit.  It glorifies torture but then goes onto prove how it’s possible to triumph even when you’re not allowed to repeatedly make people think they’re being drowned.  It’s an appallingly over-simplified narrative – relying on the point of view of a few one-dimensional characters and spectacularly failing to show the massive machine of the United States intelligence services in anything like a realistic light.

I read, but can't seem to dredge up, a review of ZDT by a critic who watched it with her brother, a SEAL.

The main points that came across was that he spent the whole movie shaking his head and sighing then walked out of the cinema uttering a constant string of expletives and refused to go into why it was so bad. She took this to be an unfavourable review of the movie.

I want to see it, because I have read No Easy Day, which was superb - I recommend reading it. Yet, I don't want to see it because I just know that I will have the same opinion of it as you!

Quote
Watch out for the bit where the solder who plugs Bin Laden reports his death by radio by saying, “for God and for country”.  That was a nice touch.

Nice, invented touch indeed. The team didn't realise they had killed him until they were searching the house, not to mention that killing him was Plan B... in fact they didn't know that it was UBL until much later after his body had been autopsied.

I bet that 'Maya' was happy at the end of the film too.
"The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity." Amelia Earhart

Thor

  • Super-sonnicus idioticus
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
« Reply #11 on: 18 January, 2013, 04:09:57 pm »
I read, but can't seem to dredge up, a review of ZDT by a critic who watched it with her brother, a SEAL.

The main points that came across was that he spent the whole movie shaking his head and sighing then walked out of the cinema uttering a constant string of expletives and refused to go into why it was so bad. She took this to be an unfavourable review of the movie.

Similar incredulity is expressed by several apparently knowledgeable IMDB reviewers of Bigelow's The Hurt Locker, so she's got form. That film was OK - it looked great and managed to create the required atmosphere, but there was a significant number of improbable occurrences. 

Enjoying such a work depends on being able to treat it as pure entertainment - don't imagine it bears much resemblance to reality.
It was a day like any other in Ireland, only it wasn't raining

Jacomus

  • My favourite gender neutral pronoun is comrade
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
« Reply #12 on: 18 January, 2013, 04:14:15 pm »
I read, but can't seem to dredge up, a review of ZDT by a critic who watched it with her brother, a SEAL.

The main points that came across was that he spent the whole movie shaking his head and sighing then walked out of the cinema uttering a constant string of expletives and refused to go into why it was so bad. She took this to be an unfavourable review of the movie.

Similar incredulity is expressed by several apparently knowledgeable IMDB reviewers of Bigelow's The Hurt Locker, so she's got form. That film was OK - it looked great and managed to create the required atmosphere, but there was a significant number of improbable occurrences. 

Enjoying such a work depends on being able to treat it as pure entertainment - don't imagine it bears much resemblance to reality.

I think the reason that I can't enjoy this type of film any more is that I have read far, far too many books written by soldiers to be able to suspend reality in the right way to watch the film.
"The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity." Amelia Earhart

andygates

  • Peroxide Viking
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
« Reply #13 on: 18 January, 2013, 04:39:21 pm »
Thanks for taking one for the team there, Aunty C.  :thumbsup:

Now when do we get a realistic war movie like Pacific Rim?
It takes blood and guts to be this cool but I'm still just a cliché.
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty
« Reply #14 on: 18 January, 2013, 04:44:45 pm »
Now when do we get a realistic war movie like Pacific Rim?

Exactly

<i>Marmite slave</i>

Jakob

Re: Zero Dark Thirty
« Reply #15 on: 19 January, 2013, 08:05:30 am »
Well, just saw it and found it somewhat bland. It's only really when they find the courier that it develops any kind of tension and even then it takes a *long* time to get anywhere.
The assault itself seemed like a mess. I find it hard to believe that they bungled their way through it that way.. I can see why a real world SEAL could take offense from that. It certainly wasn't gung-ho, as they more or less sleep-walked their way through it.

As for the torture sequences, I suspect more that she wanted to document that they happened. It certainly doesn't glorify it.

Overall, I found it to be an interesting story told in almost the most boring way possible.

Re: Zero Dark Thirty
« Reply #16 on: 26 January, 2013, 08:08:44 pm »
I kind of 'liked' it.

The way I saw the film, I thought it showed that torture doesn't work. They were asking a captive for the day of the week of the attack, and the guy was just saying any day of the week, to stop them putting him back in the box. That certainly showed that information gained from torture is pretty much useless.

It also showed that they missed a bit of intelligence information that could have got Usama, earlier (effectively all muslims look the same when they have beards). It doesn't portray anyone except Maya in a good light, and she comes off as bit mental.

It's a dramatisation, not a documentary. Ideally it should be seen in a double feature with 4 lions.

*My cousin's in the film. He's the Chinese guy in main briefing, where Chastain does her 'motherfvcker' line. He did say that all the principal actors were very nice, although that maybe because they didn't realise that he was the only extra in the scene...