Battling the bottle.

[Chris S]

A relative's friend has just been diagnosed with lung cancer. She's in her early 20's and a heavy smoker. Has it stopped her smoking? Has it f*ck!.

There is really no logic to behaviour and lifestyle choices.

[Greenbank]

Someone I know has been drinking ridiculous amounts recently (about 15 units spirits/ night + beer as well). He had a liver test a while back (2 yrs) and that came back healthy, the cost isn't an issue for him and basically, he sees no reason not to.

Does anyone have a reason I can give him to stop drinking?

A friend of mine died aged 30.
He looked perfectly healthy, spent a fair amount of time in the gym and ran a half marathon in 1h45 a couple of weeks before he was found dead.
His last liver test, 3 months before he died, came back "healthy".
He died of multiple organ failure caused by chronic alcoholism.

There are often no visible symptoms until it is too late.

[hellymedic]

A prominent poster Elsewhere lost his sister to alcoholism last year (I think). Horrible

[gonzo]

Ta for the tips everyone. I'll see if any of that works.

[Hummers]

Ta for the tips everyone. I'll see if any of that works.

Unfortunately it is difficult to tell someone that what they are doing is wrong, especially where drink is concerned. Be prepared for a kickback. 

Good luck Gonzo.

H

[Hummers]

Two days to go.  Mrs H has tried a recount but I've had to tell her that it is definitely only on Sunday that we can drink again.

Hmmmmmm. Drinking. I have mixed feelings about this.

On the plus side:

1. I am thinner and feel fitter however I've done a fair amount of cycling so it's probably a mixture of both
2. I feel I've more energy and have had greater capacity to deal with the ups and downs of my job
3. I am able to focus on things for longer (although this also happens when I am feeling fit)
4. I have really enjoyed waking up and not feeling hungover
5. Overcoming a hold something has on you feels good and bolsters one's self esteem
6. I have enjoyed food far more than I did although am eating less overall.
7. We have saved about £15-£20 a week 
8. I have taken immense  pleasure in proving the "I'll believe it when I see it" contingent wrong.
9. Watching someone else emptying glass after glass of wine or beer and thinking 'that was me' is really
10. Thankfully, drinking together is not an integral part of married life and this has been largely unaffected
11. Whilst I've missed the texture of a good single malt, the taste of a good real ale and the roll on my tongue of a full-bodied red, other than the first week of jitters, I have not missed the effect of alcohol at all.


Lots of positives but on the minus side, should I decide to stay off the booze completely:

1. To varying degrees, nearly all of our long-term friendships have drinking as a component. I think if we went tee-total for good, most of these relationships would be diminished and some would die.
2. The greater part of my social identity is based on me perpetuating the beer monster image; setting the pace on pub crawls and beer related outings. I have come to realise that in some cases, this is why people choose to socialise with me.
3. I have missed enjoying the ritual of relaxing and enjoying a glass of wine or pint of beer with friends. The problem was that it wouldn't stop at one or even four pints/ glasses of wine. 

My hope going forwards is that I can adapt my drinking habits so I can still enjoy a drink but no longer drink excessively. This is going to be tough as I am an 'all or nothing' person and find moderation pretty tough.

Also, that drinking is restricted to the social diary and cut out pretty much completely at all other times.

We'll see how that goes.

H

[woollypigs]

I have not stopped but cut down heavily over the past 2 years because of various reasons, lack off money, cycling more, age(?), in relationship with a tee-totaler. Like Hummers said my image and social life was based around drinking, every meet up was at a pub so that we could get the rounds in, and many of them.

A friend of mine who I used to go out with moved Down Under and send me a t-shirt saying " I fear no beer" on it because when he saw it it made him think of me.

I do not know if I'm lucky but I can still drink a few and call it a day, and don't need to have a drink to be able to handle the ups and downs. So therefore I can go out and have few pints with mates, and I have learned to say no (on thing I was sure I would never be able to do) when the next round is being ordered.

The best part of this cut down in alcohol is that I have lost over 5 stones, I feel much fitter and better, though I did not suffer the hangovers like other people I still felt well dehydrated and shite the next morning and I really learned that the hair of the dog worked big time, I do not miss the morning after. It's such a great feeling to be able to leave the pub and say no to that kebab, as it does not smell good to you as it will do after 15 pints, and enjoy your ride/walk home. And that when I do drink now I really enjoy the taste of the single malt, bitter, ale or even a larger.

I went out the other night from 18:00 until 22:30 I had 5 pints where as before I would probably had 10+ pints and some shorts and rushed over to the off license to get some can's for the walk home and with the kebab.

Before : I drank a 6 pack of Stella (500ml) on a night in, 12+ pints on night out which was around 2-3 times a doing the week, on the weekend it was a 6 pack before going out and then the 12+ pints. And we are not even talking about the shots here. I could easy at a bbq/party, starting early afternoon and continue well into the next day 4-6am, kill a slap of 24 can's of beer (500ml).

Now : A pint or 2 over a pub lunch or when eating out, one bottle of beer (330ml) over dinner at home once a blue moon, a glass of single malt once a very blue moon. I go out for a drink once a fortnight if not longer between, around 4-5 pints, and going out on a bender now is 6 pints in a night.

So it is easy to understand why my circle of friend have become very little, when you are planing the next pub crawl/party/bbq you get them to call/text you, but when you are not doing that anymore or have said no to the last 3-4 piss ups they stop inviting you.

But hey I know whom my real friends are and what is better for me.

[Tiger]

Enjoyed Hummers and Woolly posts. I am heartened to see Hummers example. I woudl emulate but my most recent abstinence attempt only lasted 24 hours!
I must deal with the beast. Slay the dragon.

[oncemore]

I ain't read back thro' all the above so apologies if I rehearse others' experiences.

Me, I'm an alcoholic. I've not had a drink for 5 years, 5 months and two weeks. If anyone ever tells you that they are an alcoholic and can't remember when they last had a drink, then they are lying on one or other of the two. There are two kinds of alcoholic: one wants a drink 24 hours a day and has one as often as possible; the other wants a drink 24 hours a day and doesn't have one.

And an alcoholic can't have "...just one...a few..." About 10 years ago I quit for 21 months. Xmas Eve as a reward I had 2 whiskies. By New Year, back on a bottle a day.

The last time, first I tried dead stop cold turkey - no medication. BIG mistake. Could easily have died from fitting and the halucinations got me very nearly sectioned. Released on condition that attend Day Unit etc. Didn't work really (nor did AA, can't be doing with the religious undertones). So, with a very understanding GP prescribing a complete de-tox "kit" (against local PCT rules) I locked myself in for 5 days of hell. It hurts. But I ain't had a drink since. Does it get easier? No, not really. Wherever I go I pass offies and pubs where I bought the gin and brandy....and I yearn. The folk in the doorways seem somehow to know that REALLY I belong with them - and in some ways they are right. 

It's always said that need a strong motive to quit. Well, maybe. I did have a couple of triggers - but then I'd had those before. In the end a question of pride I think.
Not a fear of death - drunks don't have that by and large. Perhaps one thing at AA DID stick. "I'm an alcoholic and I've lost....home/job/family..." I hadn't, but I did just add "yet" on the end.

Will I drink again? Yes, probably. Cettainly given the right prompt. Or excuse.

Somewhere above I saw mention of "admit" the problem: yes, that is a pre-requisite. And not easily done. After all, everyone has a drink, don't they? Drinkers do. Alcoholics do more than that. They drink to get .... drunk. Not to socialise. Not to relax. To get mindless.

There, that's it.

Any old-time C+ Forummers on here may well have heard this before. Apologies. All it's meant to do is tell anyone who needs it that it can be done.

dave j

[toekneep]

That is one of the bravest and most honest posts I have ever seen. Thanks for sharing it.

[oncemore]

Not really - "honest" is the one thing that HAS to be done, especially to oneself.

Hummers, just read your Post(s). Any and all efort(s) good, but in all honesty (that word again), moderation is a VERY difficult state for a drunk. And it gets more difficult the older one gets. I was 55 before I reached near bottom.
But not for me to preach.

[Jezza]

Good post dave, and a massive achievement. Keep at it.

I did a home detox too, but got off lighter than many. No fits, but bad twitches in my legs and hands, tripping out a lot, seeing things. I swelled up like a balloon and thought I was going to burst - kept throwing up blood. And after that many years of not being right mentally. My spirit withdrew into itself, and I was off balance with the rest of the world, out of sync. I always give a wry smile when I meet people who say stuff like 'I'm just so crazy.' No, I think to myself, you're not. But I was.

I tried moderation myself, for quite a few years after I knew I had a drink problem, but which I thought I could control. 'I'll be alright if I only have a couple of pints.' Doesn't work. I only took a tenner down the pub, or I'd only buy two bottles of wine at the bottle store. And as soon as I'd finished them I'd be back for more. No money? No problem - just borrow some, just lift a bottle off the shelf. Seriously - I became a shoplifter to get more booze while convincing myself that I was controlling it because I'd 'only' spent £50 on booze that week. It's all or nothing for me with the booze, and I chose nothing. In return I got my life back.      

There was a good piece in The Times about a home detox the other day.

Home detoxing my alcoholic friend - Times Online



  

[Hummers]

Hummers, just read your Post(s). Any and all efort(s) good, but in all honesty (that word again), moderation is a VERY difficult state for a drunk.

I have never considered myself as being dependent on drink and have known people who needed a half-bottle of vodka to start the day. Things have never been that bad for me but like Wooly, when I stopped completely, I was alarmed at how big a part of my life was given over to drinking and how it was a large part of my identity. I think this proves that there are different levels of dependency that are not all about addiction and physical dependancy.

Moderation in anything is something I struggle with but hope that at least with the booze, I can manage the balance of enjoying a drink with friends without going over the top (too often).

We'll see how it goes but given that I listed out 11 positives against 3 negatives of not drinking, I would serioulsy consider giving booze up for good if I found myself under it's control again.

H

[Fab Foodie]

Not really - "honest" is the one thing that HAS to be done, especially to oneself.

Hummers, just read your Post(s). Any and all efort(s) good, but in all honesty (that word again), moderation is a VERY difficult state for a drunk. And it gets more difficult the older one gets. I was 55 before I reached near bottom.
But not for me to preach.

Hi davej
Just the other day was wondering where you had got to?  Nice to hear from you again.  Good to hear you're still on the wagon.  Cheers FF.

[oncemore]

Thanks - and you, FF! Still on the wagon and still on the pedals, so can't be all bad, really.

[RW]

I've read through this thread with great interest.  I wouldn't say I was a heavy drinker, but I wouldn't would I?  I very rarely get drunk, but there are many times when I can't remember the last day I had without a drink.  A lot of my social life involves playing traditional music in pubs - I can be out as much as three or four times a week, so I'm wondering if I'd cope better drinking on fewer days.

I know several people who can't have a drink and although I admire them immensely, I don't want to be like that.  What's motivating me to drink less is the fact that I really do enjoy a drink.  I love real ale, belgian beers, wine, red and white, single malts and a nice drop of cognac.  You can keep the rest!  I realise there's only so much money you can spend, only so much food you can eat and only so much alcohol that you can drink and therefore for me moderation is the way to go.

A little while ago my doctor had a go at me.  He said how much do you drink?  My answer was - well I probably go out three times a week and have a couple of pints each time and then a couple of bottles of wine on the weekend.  His response was to tell me that I probably had three pints on three nights of the week, and the wine would make it up to the massive total of 50 units a week.  Since then I've been recording what I drink - units are quite easy to calculate - the percentage of alcohol in the drink, multiplied by the amount in milililtres (spelling looks wrong there?) no I am sober - it's new specs I need!  Some weeks I have exceded the 50 units that he predicted.

The one thing I have noticed is that when I do get pissed I tend to wake up with a cold or worse the next morning.  Both of the nasty colds I've had this summer started the day after a heavy night - or at least a night where I felt myself that I'd drunk too much.  So I've decided to try and have a relatively sober month.  I've just come back from a week in France where I had a hangover most mornings, so now seems a good time to start.  I intend to give drink a wide berth until the start of December - I am going to have a couple of pints on Friday, and again on the last Monday of October - I run a traditional music session at a Camra winning pub.  Today is my second day without a drink.  I can't say I feel any different yet, but that's probably because I had a flu jab today, and I've been feeling a bit funny since.

I hope nobody takes offence at my expression of the fact that I love a drink, and being able to continue drinking is one of my motivations for cutting down.

[Hummers]

Join the club! 

H

[oncemore]

"A little while ago my doctor had a go at me.  He said how much do you drink? "

Doctors etc very often automatically double whatever a patient SAYS they drink - at least if a "problem". Declaring a truthful c. 300 units per week, the medical profession was thus quite surprised by my still being alive!

[mrcharly-YHT]

I've just caught up with this thread.

Once again, I'm floored by the honesty and bravery of people here.

I have been worried about how much my wife and I drink, more for her than me. Her life has become sedentary (due to job/children/time pressures) and with the stress has come a habit to have a drink every night. This seemed fine and enjoyable to me; one beer a night didn't hurt. But then it became two beers each, or a bottle of wine. If we'd each bought a bottle that night, it was 2 bottles of wine. Followed by spirits. Not a lot, but it was enough to affect her health and our bank balance. She suffers from arthritis in all her joints, the alcohol make it worse, and putting on 2 stone in weight hasn't helped.

Reading some of the posts here makes me realise that neither of us are alcoholics, we just drink a bit more than we can afford and is good for our health.

[bobajobrob]

I've given up giving up for the time being. I think the best I managed was 4 days. I've been keeping my intake around 50-70 units per week and I'm quite happy with that.

The bigger problem I have at the moment is spliffs and pills. I love them. Whenever I take pills I always seem to end up with the phone numbers of hot girls If I had a decent supply I don't think I'd drink at all. Am going out tomorrow, pills and bongs are on the menu.

[Sergeant Pluck]

Could this be rephrased as:

"Whenever I give away pills I always seem to end up with the phone numbers of hot girls" 

Each to their own. Enjoy yourself and don't do any harm.

[bobajobrob]

Could this be rephrased as:

"Whenever I give away pills I always seem to end up with the phone numbers of hot girls" 

I think that's a possibility

Each to their own. Enjoy yourself and don't do any harm.

It's pretty much impossible to do any damage with spliffs and bongs. Pills are slightly more dodgy since you don't know what's in them, but I do them anyway and it's always a good experience.

[Sergeant Pluck]

It's pretty much impossible to do any damage with spliffs and bongs. Pills are slightly more dodgy since you don't know what's in them, but I do them anyway and it's always a good experience

I'll refrain from comment on that one.

Don't come crying to us... 

[dkahn400]

It's pretty much impossible to do any damage with spliffs and bongs. Pills are slightly more dodgy since you don't know what's in them, but I do them anyway and it's always a good experience

I'll refrain from comment on that one.

Don't come crying to us... 

That's not really refraining, is it?

[Sergeant Pluck]

That's not really refraining, is it?

True. I just don't want to preach.

How can I put this while avoiding, as I'd like to, any criticism of others...

Alcohol, spliffs, E's... it's about deciding to live one's life in a different way, without these things, and realising that life can actually be better without them for some individuals.

Or, for me, realising that I could not live my life that way any more.