Author Topic: The computing stuff rant thread  (Read 138545 times)

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1725 on: January 10, 2019, 04:08:02 pm »
Adobe do seem fairly intent on their own long-term self-destruction. Few companies have planned their own demise with such forethought and diligence.
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vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1726 on: January 10, 2019, 04:35:15 pm »
Adobe do seem fairly intent on their own long-term self-destruction. Few companies have planned their own demise with such forethought and diligence.

TBF this is a strongly contented category so they have to try very hard
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Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1727 on: January 10, 2019, 05:14:28 pm »
Adobe do seem fairly intent on their own long-term self-destruction. Few companies have planned their own demise with such forethought and diligence.

TBF this is a strongly contented category so they have to try very hard

Borging Macromedia was a stroke of genius in this respect.  They were suddenly responsible for everything that was annoying on the web.
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hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1728 on: January 13, 2019, 05:05:14 pm »
David's iMac has failed.

Searching seems to suggest this is due to modern lead-free solder failure.

APPLE
JUST
WORKS

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1729 on: January 13, 2019, 05:24:49 pm »
I bet it's some super-delicate BGA chip in the middle of an impossible-to-extract main board too, rather than a merely awkward to access power connector or similar that might reasonably be re-flowed by hand.

To be fair, it's not like the alternatives aren't afflicted with lead-free solder too - the only way to avoid that stuff is to build it from scratch using juicy lead-based solder as a hobbyist or to buy kit that's rated for military/space/life-critical applications, none of which apply to iMacs.  This is what warranties are for.

At least when it ends up in a Chinese landfill, it won't leach lead into the groundwater...


(TBH, Apple's Just Working credentials are a software thing.  They certainly don't apply to power cables, anyway.)
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1730 on: January 13, 2019, 05:47:39 pm »
Computer components all come from the same fabrication plants and the computers are assembled in the same factories anyway. I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect any computer to never fail.

The benefit of Apple in my experience is that you can wander into their shop and look suitably pained.
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Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1731 on: January 13, 2019, 06:08:00 pm »
I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect any computer to never fail.

It's approximately doable[1], but it'll be a very expensive computer with all the performance you'd expect of a machine from the 1990s, and will likely run VxWorks or something as an OS.

The compromises we accept for a desktop PC are very different from those for a flight computer on a trip to Pluto.  Performance, reliability, cost and presence of various substances are all part of that.


If you really need an iMac not to fail, your best bet is to buy two iMacs, put one on the shelf, and keep some money aside to buy/repair iMacs in future.  This will cost a lot more than a single iMac, but should be good enough for most purposes.


[1] At least for small values of 'never'
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ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1732 on: January 13, 2019, 06:19:19 pm »
Indeed, I meant consumer electronics, which computers and phones are. The companies have done the math on failure rates and the cost – the costs are going to rise steeply beyond a certain failure rate, which would be untenable unless you're a military or space contractor, or something similarly mission-critical.
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Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1733 on: January 13, 2019, 07:44:13 pm »
It's not even a lead-free solder thing. Solder joints have always been the commonest source of complex electronics failing. I worked in a telly repair shop as a young teen, in the days when tellies could be repaired by replacing a blown capacitor or similar. The most common failure was a dry solder joint, diagnosed by turning the telly on and tapping around the board with the wrong end of a screwdriver.

One day someone brought in a Sony. "Do you know why you've never seen one of those in here before?" the boss said. "No, why?" I said. 90% of what we fixed were Ferguson T10 or rebadged clones. "Pick it up." It weighed at least twice as much as any other telly in the shop. "That's the weight of the extra solder they use. You never see a dry joint on one of those." Of course Sony have since had to follow everyone else in building down to a price.
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Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1734 on: January 13, 2019, 08:03:36 pm »
It's not even a lead-free solder thing. Solder joints have always been the commonest source of complex electronics failing.

With a possible drop to second place during the capacitor plague years.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1735 on: January 13, 2019, 10:12:55 pm »
I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect any computer to never fail.

It's approximately doable[1], but it'll be a very expensive computer with all the performance you'd expect of a machine from the 1990s, and will likely run VxWorks or something as an OS.

The compromises we accept for a desktop PC are very different from those for a flight computer on a trip to Pluto.  Performance, reliability, cost and presence of various substances are all part of that.
If you really need an iMac not to fail, your best bet is to buy two iMacs, put one on the shelf, and keep some money aside to buy/repair iMacs in future.  This will cost a lot more than a single iMac, but should be good enough for most purposes.
[1] At least for small values of 'never'

Suspect if you did that you'd be thwarted by OS updates and unsupported/supportable software.

David tried continuing to work on his presentation on his old MacBook. Couldn't open Keynote presentation as OS is too old to support it. He is currently using my MacBook and I am on his. I don't know all my log-ins and its Notes on the Cloud seem not to have updated. I really don't want to disturb David so I'm not on Twitter or email...

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1736 on: January 13, 2019, 10:18:53 pm »
I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect any computer to never fail.

It's approximately doable[1], but it'll be a very expensive computer with all the performance you'd expect of a machine from the 1990s, and will likely run VxWorks or something as an OS.

The compromises we accept for a desktop PC are very different from those for a flight computer on a trip to Pluto.  Performance, reliability, cost and presence of various substances are all part of that.
If you really need an iMac not to fail, your best bet is to buy two iMacs, put one on the shelf, and keep some money aside to buy/repair iMacs in future.  This will cost a lot more than a single iMac, but should be good enough for most purposes.
[1] At least for small values of 'never'

Suspect if you did that you'd be thwarted by OS updates and unsupported/supportable software.

Agreed.  TBH, the spare-one-on-the-shelf approach only makes sense if you really can't tolerate downtime.  Moore's Law dictates that otherwise you're generally better off waiting until it breaks before buying a new one, on the basis that by the time the first one breaks, the new one will be cheaper or better.

Murphy's law dictates that this will imply a forklift upgrade of whatever is involved, with exciting new incompatibilities dumped on you at the least convenient moment.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1737 on: January 14, 2019, 12:09:02 am »
Indeed.
We'll get David's iMac fixed and he's now used my MacBook to export a Keynote 09 version of his presentation to his kit.

Looks like we'll have major purchases ahead - probably at least a new iMac; he might not need a new laptop because he has a recent iPad.

All fairly spendy.

Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1738 on: January 14, 2019, 01:53:06 am »
Apple do a reasonable number of refurbished returns at very good prices.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1739 on: January 14, 2019, 02:02:30 am »
Thanks! Will investigate...

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1740 on: January 14, 2019, 09:29:40 am »
How old is it? You get fair mileage from the Apple store from quoting sale of goods regulations even on out-of-warranty computers, or they may offer a replacement refurb at reasonable rates.
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Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1741 on: January 14, 2019, 12:16:30 pm »
IIRC a friend of mine traded in a well-out-of-warranty iMac with a b0rked graphics card (I think it was a known issue on that particular model) for a discount on a new one at their local fruitware repair shop.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

ian

  • fatuously disingenuous
    • The Suburban Survival Guide
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1742 on: January 14, 2019, 12:47:54 pm »
If it's beyond a reasonable warranty fix, the staff (at least in Apple stores) have first dibs on the supply of refurbs, so one of them told me once. Though, that that instance, I rolled my eyes and he took pity and gave me a brand new item from the shelves.
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Jaded

  • The Codfather
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Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1743 on: January 14, 2019, 01:34:11 pm »
How old is it? You get fair mileage from the Apple store from quoting sale of goods regulations even on out-of-warranty computers, or they may offer a replacement refurb at reasonable rates.

Definitely know your consumer law. They tend not to, and in the past I felt they were being guided by US law, not EU/UK.
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hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1744 on: January 14, 2019, 01:37:22 pm »
I bought the iMac in 2012 though David said it was a 2011 model.

It's gone of to Digbeth for repair.

Courier came at midday for collection.

David spent the night shuttling between his 2009 Macbook, my 2012 Macbook and his 2017 iPad, hitting the hay at 0745.

He managed to get a creditable presentation together despite the technology, which seems to conspire against those using older versions of software.

Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1745 on: January 14, 2019, 10:48:15 pm »
ionos webmail refused to let me see or download an email attachment when there was no subject or text in the mail. There was a paper clip icon in the list of emails, but no such icon when I selected the email to collect the attachement.

Sent again with a few word in the subject and the body, and it was fine.

More frustratingly, when I go back and look now, the attachment is there to be found in the subjectless email.
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Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: The computing stuff rant thread
« Reply #1746 on: January 14, 2019, 11:03:10 pm »
ionos webmail refused to let me see or download an email attachment when there was no subject or text in the mail. There was a paper clip icon in the list of emails, but no such icon when I selected the email to collect the attachement.

Sent again with a few word in the subject and the body, and it was fine.

More frustratingly, when I go back and look now, the attachment is there to be found in the subjectless email.

Might just have been slowness between the actual mail server and the Webmail host.
The Webmail host may have been struggling to download the attachment in a timely enough manner to offer it up to the web client.

I sometimes see this on my self-hosted IMAP/Webmail because the IMAP is hosted on a rather slow machine, and the Webmail server can get a bit bored waiting for it to keep up.