Author Topic: MH370 missing  (Read 69347 times)

woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
    • woollypigs
Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #500 on: 08 April, 2014, 12:31:03 am »
Naa didn't land on ice or water, it landed on U.N.I.T. Valient.
Current mood: AARRRGGGGHHHHH !!! #bollockstobrexit

Panoramix

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Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #501 on: 11 April, 2014, 01:43:00 pm »
Chief cat entertainer.

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #502 on: 11 April, 2014, 02:45:47 pm »
I am impressed : http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26984162

Looking at the spots on the map in that report showing where a signal was detected, and where they are in relation to the final radius arcs from Inmarsat's calculations, the agreement is encouraging. They have found the haystack at last. Now to find the needle...
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #503 on: 12 April, 2014, 08:43:57 am »
Should they find the 'needle' I wonder what form the investigation will take?  Given the disappointing Malaysian performance, I'd imagine they will not take the leading role*!  Nevertheless, their continued co-operation is essential.

It strikes me that had there been a deliberate attempt to 'disappear' a large aircraft this effort would be hard to beat**.  I read that the crucial  'black box' is unlikely to contain the data about the critical moment when the aircraft departed from its normal route since the 'tape' would have  'looped' since then, i.e. does not hold details of an entire potential flight endurance.  All the hijacker had to do was to keep the plane going long enough and bingo, no evidence!

It's also been said that after the French plane was found the investigators made recommendations about 'black boxes' whose implementation would have been very helpful in locating this one.  Evidently implementation of those recommendations (if there was any) did not include retro-fitting. 

*
Quote
China has postponed delivery of two pandas to Malaysia out of respect for relatives of the missing.
The giant pandas had been due to be transferred next week to mark the 40th anniversary of diplomatic relations between the two countries.
Malaysia's environment minister G Palanivel said: "During this difficult time, it seems inappropriate to arrange for the sending off and the arrival of pandas in Malaysia".


**If they'd been able to fly it to the Moon I think it would have been found sooner!
Move Faster and Bake Things

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #504 on: 12 April, 2014, 06:12:18 pm »
The form of investigation may well depend on what is found at the bottom of the Indian Ocean, and what can be recovered. It has been reported that the Malaysian government has already started its own investigation into the performance of the civil aviation and military authorities.

...  I read that the crucial  'black box' is unlikely to contain the data about the critical moment when the aircraft departed from its normal route since the 'tape' would have  'looped' since then, i.e. does not hold details of an entire potential flight endurance.  All the hijacker had to do was to keep the plane going long enough and bingo, no evidence!

You have to beware of journalists being sloppy with the terminology, as there are actually two data recorders. The Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) is the one that operates on a two-hour overwriting loop, and depending on what had happened, may indeed be of limited use. The one that lay people tend to think of as the "black box" is the Flight Data Recorder (FDR), which can record hundreds of parameters from the aircraft systems for up to 25 hours.

Not having a record of any conversation in the cockpit at the point when MH370 went off-course will be problematic, but there is a hell of a lot that the investigators can glean from analysing the FDR, such as autopilot engagement, altitude, control inputs et cetera, which will go some way to determining if the plane was actually being actively flown between going dark over the Gulf of Thailand and the point over the Andaman Sea or Indian Ocean where it finally turned south.
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #505 on: 12 April, 2014, 06:29:23 pm »
To be fair they did mention the second 'black box' and describe it much as you have done.  However, say 'crucial' because the article said that the information on that particular item would have been the most useful in quickly and maybe conclusively determining what went on in the cockpit. 

I'd imagine the Malaysian govt. is highly agitated about the whole business as they have lost a lot of face over the matter.  I'd love to think they will be open about any findings from their investigation but I'd rather see the lead role taken by more reliable authorities.

 
Move Faster and Bake Things

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #506 on: 13 April, 2014, 09:59:32 pm »
The Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) is the one that operates on a two-hour overwriting loop, and depending on what had happened, may indeed be of limited use.

FedEx Flight 705 7th April 1994

A disgruntled airline employee flying in the jump seat attempted to bring down this flight in a bizarre attempt to claim on his own life insurance. He hoped that the money would go to his wife, even though his marriage was failing. The idea was to provide enough money for his kids to have a college education.

For the insurance to pay out he had to make it look like an accident. He pulled the circuit breaker for the CVR when the flight engineer was out of the cockpit so there would be no record of the fight.

Whether that is possible on MH370 I don't know but if something like this happened then there may be no recording at all.


Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #507 on: 14 April, 2014, 11:21:17 pm »
So, the pinger's died, more or less on schedule if it really was MH370, & now they're doing a tedious back & forth scan of narrow strips of sea bed. Could be a long wait, but at least it looks likely that they're in roughly the right area.
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

Panoramix

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Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #508 on: 15 April, 2014, 09:02:32 am »
I did my national service on a minehunter and apart from the fact that we only had capabilities for shallow waters (80m max if I remember well) thus there was no need to tow the sonar, they use relatively similar techniques to what we were using.

I think likelynees of success really depends on how rugged the seafloor is. On a sandy bottom you can see about anything even small (say the size of a spanner) easily. If it is rocky and rugged it becomes much harder. It is tedious work, boat goes at slow speed while people check all echos on the sonar. At least in the Indian Ocean, they won't be bothered by traffic! If there are big chunks of the fuselage still together it will be easier to spot.

There is an amazing quantity of stuff on the sea bed, people seem to loose propellers easily! Even if it was in 1999, we found (and destroyed) a British anti submarine mine which probably had been dropped by the RAF during WWII. Nowadays there are sthealth mines which are hard but not impossible to spot.
Chief cat entertainer.

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #509 on: 15 April, 2014, 10:05:06 am »
Do you think it was coincidence that the French military chose to stick you on a boat, out in the sea, away from everything?

 ;D

Panoramix

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Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #510 on: 15 April, 2014, 10:23:39 am »
Do you think it was coincidence that the French military chose to stick you on a boat, out in the sea, away from everything?

 ;D

 ::-)

I did ask for it, I thought that it would be more fun than digging holes and pretend to be in an imaginary war.

The skipper was always treating me with a bit of suspicion. You can't really trust a guy who has spent a year in the UK and seems to be able to speak English...  ;)
Chief cat entertainer.

mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #511 on: 15 April, 2014, 10:50:51 am »
I'm wondering why they would only have one mapper down there. They don't need piloting so it wouldn't be that difficult to denad a swarm of the things down with their own pre-defined seach area.
Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #512 on: 15 April, 2014, 10:54:41 am »
Cost/distance from anywhere?
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #513 on: 15 April, 2014, 08:29:30 pm »
And how many of the things are there? I doubt if they're mass-produced.
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

mcshroom

  • Mushroom
Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #514 on: 15 April, 2014, 08:54:00 pm »
I must have seen a dozen different ones at the Oceanography Exhibition I went to last month with work. There's quite a few around. How many of them could go that deep I'm not sure as they tend to be used more for coastal/river mapping.
Climbs like a sprinter, sprints like a climber!

Basil

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Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #515 on: 15 April, 2014, 09:02:19 pm »
I think MH370 is about to reappear over A Warwickshire Lad's house. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-27037579
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #516 on: 16 April, 2014, 02:36:43 pm »
I must have seen a dozen different ones at the Oceanography Exhibition I went to last month with work. There's quite a few around. b]How many of them could go that deep I'm not sure[/b] as they tend to be used more for coastal/river mapping.
I suspect that deep diving ones are relatively rare. And we're discussing numbers in service, not varieties.
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

Mrs Pingu

  • Who ate all the pies? Me
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Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #517 on: 29 April, 2014, 08:38:35 pm »
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/29/flight-mh370-search-bay-of-bengal

Truth or bollocks, you decide....this might help.
http://georesonance.com
I know what I think.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #518 on: 30 April, 2014, 10:46:54 am »
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/29/flight-mh370-search-bay-of-bengal

Truth or bollocks, you decide....this might help.
http://georesonance.com
I know what I think.

A look at the websites history may help

http://web.archive.org/web/20110128130011/http://georesonance.com/

Starts off in Jan 2011 offering Holistic healing and becomes its current version in Apr 2014 - some time after the plane went missing  ;D
“There is no point in using the word 'impossible' to describe something that has clearly happened.”
― Douglas Adams

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #519 on: 30 April, 2014, 11:09:05 am »
A bit of searching around - this comes across as woowoo bullshit. I reckon the company is banking on the plane never being found and is just trying to get some publicity in the hope that they can make some sales.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Mrs Pingu

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Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #520 on: 30 April, 2014, 12:03:15 pm »
Yeah, I was laughing at the bit I read about remote NMR. My arse.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #521 on: 30 April, 2014, 12:27:33 pm »
A look at the websites history may help

http://web.archive.org/web/20110128130011/http://georesonance.com/

Starts off in Jan 2011 offering Holistic healing and becomes its current version in Apr 2014 - some time after the plane went missing  ;D

Well, the domain name was transferred, so the holistic healing company is probably unrelated to the "remote sensing" company.

Which doesn't mean the new georesonance are not also crazy. They have form: apparently they located the MV Armenia in the Black Sea in 2005. This would have been big news, one of the worst ever maritime disasters with up to 7000 lives lost. But for some reason the wikipedia page  does not mention it until it's added in a revision of 21 October 2013*. And the citation is a link to georesonance's website.

It's a shame The Guardian have seen fit to publish this without engaging a bit of common sense.


*ETA: I have updated the wiki page, I was tempted to just delete the section but I can't be bothered getting into an edit war.
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #522 on: 30 April, 2014, 01:02:43 pm »
Yeah, I was laughing at the bit I read about remote NMR. My arse.
If you read more detailed reports, they claim to have done the analysis from satellite photographs.

Australia, for some weird reason, is a country very fond of perpetual motion machines, majik fuel improvers and suchlike.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #523 on: 30 April, 2014, 01:09:54 pm »
A look at the websites history may help

http://web.archive.org/web/20110128130011/http://georesonance.com/

Starts off in Jan 2011 offering Holistic healing and becomes its current version in Apr 2014 - some time after the plane went missing  ;D

Well, the domain name was transferred, so the holistic healing company is probably unrelated to the "remote sensing" company.

~

The bullshits the same so it's very likely the same people but who knows
“There is no point in using the word 'impossible' to describe something that has clearly happened.”
― Douglas Adams

Regulator

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Re: MH370 missing
« Reply #524 on: 30 April, 2014, 06:00:03 pm »
A look at the websites history may help

http://web.archive.org/web/20110128130011/http://georesonance.com/

Starts off in Jan 2011 offering Holistic healing and becomes its current version in Apr 2014 - some time after the plane went missing  ;D

Well, the domain name was transferred, so the holistic healing company is probably unrelated to the "remote sensing" company.

Which doesn't mean the new georesonance are not also crazy. They have form: apparently they located the MV Mauritania in the Black Sea in 2005. ...

The MV Mauritania?  You sure?  Or do you mean the MV Armenia? There was no vessel called the MV Mauritania that I can find a record of but there were two vessels called RMS Mauretania, the first of which was scrapped in 1935 (not sunk in WWII) and the second of which was scrapped in 1965.
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