Author Topic: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000  (Read 2727 times)

Euan Uzami

ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« on: April 20, 2014, 02:26:27 pm »
looking at
http://aukweb.net/results/acpawards/

About the Randonneur 10,000:
 - what counts as "1 SUPER RANDONNEE i.e. a permanent of 600 km and at least 10,000 m (32.800 ft) of climbing, homologated by the Audax Club Parisien, ridden in the Randonneur division." ?
 When it says a 'permanent' are they talking about what we know as a perm, or is this a calendar event...what would be  examples of  rides that would satisfy this criteria ?

And when it says
"2 full series of ACP brevets (200, 300, 400, 600 and 1000 km) - Longer brevets cannot be substituted for shorter ones"
does each 'series' have to be in the same year, or can it just be any 2 groupings of 2,3,4,6 and 10 within the 6 year period?



About the brevet 25,000: do all the events adding up to 25,000 have to be BRM?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2014, 03:48:53 pm »
The 2, 3, 4, 6 and 10 BRMs have to be done in a year (twice), effectively an extended Super Randonneur series.

All of the Randonneur 25,000 rides have to be BRM, except the Super Randonnee 600 and the various 1200s (which are RM).

The Super Randonnee 600 is a permanent and currently no event in the UK qualifies. All of the SR600 routes overseas have had a lot of input from Sophie Matter.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2014, 11:56:07 pm »
The Brevet 25000 is an AUK award and BR events count towards the total as well as BRM. Once the Arrow is validated, I think you just need to complete a ride of over 1300km to claim it. You don't need a ride over 1300km for the AUK Brevet 5000 or ACP Randonneur 5000 though.

BR events don't count towards the ACP awards. You need a series of 200, 300, 400, 600, 1000 completed in 1 year, twice within a six year period towards the ACP Randonneur 10000. The sticking point on that one is the Super Randonnee permanent 600 with 10000m of climbing. It should be doable in the UK though. Three laps of the Full Monty 200 would yield over 12000m of climbing for example, but a trip to a mountainous area of France could be more fun.


Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2014, 08:01:25 am »
.... Three laps of the Full Monty 200 would yield over 12000m of climbing for example, .....
ahem ....multiple laps of the same course are not permitted, so although it might give you the ascent it is highly unlikely to be accepted as a Super Randonnée 600

Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2014, 08:21:42 am »
.... Three laps of the Full Monty 200 would yield over 12000m of climbing for example, .....
ahem ....multiple laps of the same course are not permitted, so although it might give you the ascent it is highly unlikely to be accepted as a Super Randonnée 600

I read that as an illustration that the climbing was possible in the UK, not a suggestion that 3 laps should be submitted.

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
    • Occasional wittering
Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2014, 08:24:31 am »
Climbing would need to be passed by Sophie using open runner

The pendle (though rated by many sites as 10000m of ascent) fails by quite a way.

So, basically, it needs the pendle to find more hills.

Ouch.

Fly to France.
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

Euan Uzami

Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2014, 08:46:53 am »
.... Three laps of the Full Monty 200 would yield over 12000m of climbing for example, .....
ahem ....multiple laps of the same course are not permitted, so although it might give you the ascent it is highly unlikely to be accepted as a Super Randonnée 600
shame, 'cos I wonder if 3 laps of the tregaron dragon would ;D  :sick: :sick:

not sure I could do that at all let alone in 50 hours...

Euan Uzami

Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2014, 09:34:26 am »
The Brevet 25000 is an AUK award and BR events count towards the total as well as BRM. Once the Arrow is validated, I think you just need to complete a ride of over 1300km to claim it. You don't need a ride over 1300km for the AUK Brevet 5000 or ACP Randonneur 5000 though.

BR events don't count towards the ACP awards. You need a series of 200, 300, 400, 600, 1000 completed in 1 year, twice within a six year period towards the ACP Randonneur 10000. The sticking point on that one is the Super Randonnee permanent 600 with 10000m of climbing. It should be doable in the UK though. Three laps of the Full Monty 200 would yield over 12000m of climbing for example, but a trip to a mountainous area of France could be more fun.

aha - so the Scottish one would give me that potentially then.

Climbing would need to be passed by Sophie using open runner

The pendle (though rated by many sites as 10000m of ascent) fails by quite a way.

So, basically, it needs the pendle to find more hills.

Ouch.

Fly to France.

So that one like you did then are pretty much the only ones... no bad thing - good excuse to do it I suppose!


Saw this page as well which has a little matrix of it, quite interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audax_UK

T42

  • Old fool in a hurry
Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2014, 10:02:48 am »
Climbing would need to be passed by Sophie using open runner

The pendle (though rated by many sites as 10000m of ascent) fails by quite a way.

So, basically, it needs the pendle to find more hills.

Ouch.

Fly to France.

Open Runner is iffy on total climbs. I recently compared a flat route through the Saverne gap with one that went over the top of the Vosges: the flat one came out at 1200m more. A different routing engine gave the flat one at 800m less.

Va figurer, as they don't say in France.
I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
    • Occasional wittering
Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2014, 10:18:18 am »
Climbing would need to be passed by Sophie using open runner

The pendle (though rated by many sites as 10000m of ascent) fails by quite a way.

So, basically, it needs the pendle to find more hills.

Ouch.

Fly to France.

Open Runner is iffy on total climbs. I recently compared a flat route through the Saverne gap with one that went over the top of the Vosges: the flat one came out at 1200m more. A different routing engine gave the flat one at 800m less.

Va figurer, as they don't say in France.

Well, that is the method ACP have chosen.

On the Pyrenean ride, it actually tallied up very closely.

Open runner rated it at 15000m of ascent, from memory, my magic bleeping box recorded around 14500.
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

T42

  • Old fool in a hurry
Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2014, 10:47:02 am »
Climbing would need to be passed by Sophie using open runner

The pendle (though rated by many sites as 10000m of ascent) fails by quite a way.

So, basically, it needs the pendle to find more hills.

Ouch.

Fly to France.

Open Runner is iffy on total climbs. I recently compared a flat route through the Saverne gap with one that went over the top of the Vosges: the flat one came out at 1200m more. A different routing engine gave the flat one at 800m less.

Va figurer, as they don't say in France.

Well, that is the method ACP have chosen.

On the Pyrenean ride, it actually tallied up very closely.

Open runner rated it at 15000m of ascent, from memory, my magic bleeping box recorded around 14500.

Open Runner is the one used by most French clubs.  It can tally up pretty closely: it tallied with my Cloudmade/SRTM prog on the over-the-top ride, to within 50m total, but on the flattie it was decidedly wawa.

OR uses Google routing, and I don't know where they get their altitudes.  They used to use SRTM, but maybe Google do something else now.
I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
    • Occasional wittering
Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2014, 10:55:03 am »
Their ride, their rules.

Sophie is very helpful and encouraging for anyone considering a Super Randonee.

As far as I know, there are 5 in France, 1 in japan, Germany, Croatia and at least 2 in the us.

I hope to ride another this season. The pain of the last one seems a distant memory and I feel the need to hurt myself again.
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2014, 12:49:40 pm »
Yup, I messed up. AUK awards don't require BRMs and the Brevet 25,000 is an AUK award. ACP awards don't recognise any non-ACP-homologated brevets, like AUK's BRs.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Euan Uzami

Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2014, 02:46:43 pm »
Yup, I messed up. AUK awards don't require BRMs and the Brevet 25,000 is an AUK award. ACP awards don't recognise any non-ACP-homologated brevets, like AUK's BRs.

it struck me that the 25000 was an AUK award as it requires a 1300km or longer. ;)

So BRs count, but I presume DIYs/perms  don't then - has to be calendars?
What about overdistance i.e. can I use the 'total distance' header at the top of the rides list, or do I have to take the minimum x00 distance?
Mind even worst case scenario I've got 29+78+(100-47)+(96-43) = 213 , so only need 37 more this  year to get to 250 and already on 13.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2014, 02:58:24 pm »
AUK doesn't care whether rides are calendar or perms, except for the Arrow, though it can be the BR Summer Arrow, rather than the BRM Easter Arrow.

Events are counted at nominal X00km distances, from vague memory.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
  • Chartered accountant in 5 different decades
    • CET Ride Reports and Blogs
Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2014, 03:00:35 pm »
Its actually hard to get 10000m of ascent in 600km anywhere in the UK without avoiding gratuitous control points.  I played around a lot with maps of Wales a couple of years ago to fulfil a request for a really hard 1000km event and the best I could come up with was the Cambrian 10A. 

The other problem then is the level of organisation to get form of manned controls - especially when the time allowance stretches out to 50 hours.
Eddington Numbers 125 (imperial), 170 (metric) 520 (furlongs)  112 (nautical miles)

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
    • Occasional wittering
Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2014, 03:06:59 pm »
By it's nature, the control points will be gratuitous.

No real allowances made for manned controls on the super Randonee I did. Only a couple of controls were in or even near a town. The vast majority were photos of the summit boards. A few signposts and other bits and pieces.

Food was a bit of an issue - but that is all part of the fun and challenge.
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

Euan Uzami

Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2014, 03:10:25 pm »
By it's nature, the control points will be gratuitous.

No real allowances made for manned controls on the super Randonee I did. Only a couple of controls were in or even near a town. The vast majority were photos of the summit boards. A few signposts and other bits and pieces.

Food was a bit of an issue - but that is all part of the fun and challenge.
When you did it marcus was it organised as a calendar event, or did you just set off doing it off your own bat?
What I'm getting at is, is it ever run as a calendar event?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2014, 03:15:52 pm »
There was an Italian calendar 600 brevet called a Super Randonnee a few years ago but I don't know if it counted in ACP's eyes as a SR600. All of the current SR600s are unsupported perms and required to be so. Sophie is a bit fundamentalist that way.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
    • Occasional wittering
Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2014, 03:16:27 pm »
^ what he says

all perms
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
    • Occasional wittering
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2014, 05:01:35 pm »
There was an Italian calendar 600 brevet called a Super Randonnee a few years ago but I don't know if it counted in ACP's eyes as a SR600. All of the current SR600s are unsupported perms and required to be so. Sophie is a bit fundamentalist that way.
I find that a little surprising. Doesn't Sophie also organise calendar events, and happily ride "softies" events like PBP?

Perhaps she's seen the One True Way now  :P
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2014, 05:23:44 pm »
Sophie's hilly 1000 calendar brevet is unsupported and she asks that riders don't have support. Fundamentalist in my book.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2014, 05:29:07 pm »
Hmmm. I'd have thought a bare-bones calendar event would fit her world view - the PERMS restrictions seems rather odd.

(It's all a bit grey isn't it? Presumably riders can book 5* hotels on her 1000 or on the Super600s? That could make the ride "easier" than one done with a support vehicle.)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Euan Uzami

Re: ACP's randonneur 10000 and Brevet 25000
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2014, 01:28:56 pm »
Sophie's hilly 1000 calendar brevet is unsupported and she asks that riders don't have support. Fundamentalist in my book.

...true, but (when i did it at least) there were a LOT of secret controls. Didn't go very far without there being a car with its boot open just over the next summit with a camping table with tea and cake set up at the side. It was nice surprise that kept happening again and again! One of the things I liked about it tbh :)
So it's not like she is being mean.  :)