Author Topic: Ditching the television  (Read 7420 times)

Oscar's dad

  • aka Septimus Fitzwilliam Beauregard Partridge
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #50 on: November 03, 2014, 01:24:40 pm »
I simply don't buy the "If you watch it, you should pay for it" argument.

If they want us to pay for it - then they shouldn't put it in the public domain. Simple as that. I don't have to pay for my use of GPS satellites either - another public domain "service". If they want to fund public service TV out of my taxes (which I pay a fuck tonne of), then that's up to the politicians to sort out - that's not my problem.
FWIW, I'm a big fan of public services, including public service TV. The funding model for the BBC is fucked up - but again, that's not my responsibility.


I bet I know where this thread is heading  ;D

The thing is that there is no easy way of paying for GPS or any number of on-line services (Google, Facebook, Twitter etc) and these services were launched in the knowledge that most users would pay nothing for them.

But there is an easy way of paying for the BBC, the TV Licence Fee.  And, for what it's worth I think it is a daft way of funding the BBC.

Wow's position is problematical as he says he doesn't like the BBC's alleged bias and editorial standards and these are his reasons for no longer paying for a TV license - this position is fair so far.  But, he does want to watch some of the BBC's light entertainment content and he will watch this content on iPlayer.

To my mind, you either don't watch any BBC content by any means and therefore don't need to pay for a TV licence or you pay for a TV license, watch the BBC content you enjoy but don't watch the content you allege to be biased or of poor editorial quality.

Wow, in my view if you watch BBC content on iPlayer you're compromising your principles and leaving TV License payers to fund your enjoyment of some BBC content which can't be right.


Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #51 on: November 03, 2014, 01:55:04 pm »
I don't think I said anywhere that it was about principles, OD, other than that of me deciding that I'll no longer pay for a lot more than I'm getting - or, for that matter, anyone else in the house! If you like, it was a principled stand by which I paid for a licence because, like Jo, I thought the BBC on balance to be a Good Thing, even though I didn't get anything like my money's worth out of it. I have my doubts that it will ever be a Good Thing again so the principle has become redundant.

I think a reasonable comparison is that I used to boycott South African goods as a principled stand against apartheid. It would be a little foolish of me to continue that boycott since apartheid ended many years ago. That is not to say that I support unreservedly what goes on in the massively fucked-up state of South Africa, but I'll buy their goods if necessary, transport miles notwithstanding.

Edit: having said that, I can't think of anything that we buy regularly that comes from South Africa. We do our best to buy British fruit and, if we can't get it, EU stuff (sorry, Steph!).
Eating's a serious business. Don't bollocks around wagging your tail.

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #52 on: November 03, 2014, 01:59:40 pm »
I haven't had any more visits since offering to let the inspector into the garage to see the pieces of our television.  He queried why I was leading him to the garage and I explained that we keep the television in a cardboard box in the garage because it is in multiple shattered pieces.  He naturally wanted to know more, so I explained (perfectly truthfully) that we shot it.  "Shot it," quoth he, "how?" "With guns," I responded, and he decided that not only did he not need to see it but he could also make a little note explaining that he was satisfied that we really do not have a (working) television.

Did he then edge carefully out of the garden, keeping you within sight all the time?
Eating's a serious business. Don't bollocks around wagging your tail.

Oscar's dad

  • aka Septimus Fitzwilliam Beauregard Partridge
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #53 on: November 03, 2014, 02:16:20 pm »
I don't think I said anywhere that it was about principles, OD ...

Wow, you said this ...

After a number of years being tempted not to buy a licence - we watch hardly any television and it's been like that for years - the BBC's track record over the past 12 months or so has persuaded me that it is beyond redemption and I will not renew my licence when it becomes due at midnight tonight.

Then you said this ...

I have been of that view myself for a long time, jo, and have paid the licence fee through gritted teeth, but the most recent pro-Israeli coverage of atrocities, and the totally unjustified difference between their treatment of the Green Party and UKIP have finally forced me to say "enough is enough!"

OK, so perhaps I mistook your principles for your opinions, but I think my point stands.  You seem to be saying that you are stopping paying the License Fee because you don't like stuff the BBC is doing.  But I don't understand how you can leave others to continue paying for a service you wish to carry on consuming, albeit partially.

I suppose you can justifiably argue that the BBC allows you to do so but I think its a poor position to take.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #54 on: November 03, 2014, 02:27:12 pm »
I haven't had any more visits since offering to let the inspector into the garage to see the pieces of our television.  He queried why I was leading him to the garage and I explained that we keep the television in a cardboard box in the garage because it is in multiple shattered pieces.  He naturally wanted to know more, so I explained (perfectly truthfully) that we shot it.  "Shot it," quoth he, "how?" "With guns," I responded, and he decided that not only did he not need to see it but he could also make a little note explaining that he was satisfied that we really do not have a (working) television.
But, but, but... surely you, or rather Charlotte, shot it with a bow and arrow, not a gun!
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #55 on: November 03, 2014, 02:30:08 pm »
The thing is that there is no easy way of paying for GPS or any number of on-line services (Google, Facebook, Twitter etc) and these services were launched in the knowledge that most users would pay nothing for them.

GPS is funded by the US taxpayers.  Galileo is being funded (at least in part) by the EU and ESA, which means our taxes, and will provide an open service equivalent to GPS free of charge to anyone with a receiver.  This seems like a reasonable quid pro quo for the use of GPS and GLONASS (unless you're anti-EU  ;) ).

Google, Facebook, Twitter, ITV, commercial radio, free newspapers etc are different, in that the end users are the product not the customer.  We're already paying for the services with our minable data and access to our brains.  And then paying for them again when we buy their customer's products and services.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

ian

  • feat. Undead Jess & Finestre, Queen of Hell
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #56 on: November 03, 2014, 02:46:10 pm »
Perhaps we should refer to the gospel of St Kevin on such matters, it’s a part of the Apocrypha and is strangely apt in modern times. Not for nothing is it often known as The Gospel of Sundry Entitlements. I’ll quote some of the more apposite verses (especially chapter 4, verse 32, which is very relevant to today’s lesson):

And lo, the bounty of the internet will be upon us. Let he who desire, sate that desire. Because. (Kevin 1:1-2)

If that product be not delivered in a format, or at time, or a price that suits, then thou shalt torrent or download, and they shalt be righteous amongst men. (Kevin 3:12)

And that righteousness shalt be profound, and loudly writ upon the internet, and thou shalt shout with voice of the new prophets, and when challenged upon those terms, thou shall utter the words ‘but copying isn’t theft.’ (Kevin 3:13)

Thou shalt renege on any promise to otherwise reward, for the intent of a righteous man is enough. (Kevin 4:15)

If thou lacketh funds, thou shalt torrent freely. (Kevin 4:31)

If thou disagreeth with the policy or politics, thou shalt download the bits you like regardless. (Kevin 4:32)
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Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2014, 02:48:35 pm »
I don't think I said anywhere that it was about principles, OD ...

Wow, you said this ...

After a number of years being tempted not to buy a licence - we watch hardly any television and it's been like that for years - the BBC's track record over the past 12 months or so has persuaded me that it is beyond redemption and I will not renew my licence when it becomes due at midnight tonight.

Then you said this ...

I have been of that view myself for a long time, jo, and have paid the licence fee through gritted teeth, but the most recent pro-Israeli coverage of atrocities, and the totally unjustified difference between their treatment of the Green Party and UKIP have finally forced me to say "enough is enough!"

OK, so perhaps I mistook your principles for your opinions, but I think my point stands.  You seem to be saying that you are stopping paying the License Fee because you don't like stuff the BBC is doing.  But I don't understand how you can leave others to continue paying for a service you wish to carry on consuming, albeit partially.

I suppose you can justifiably argue that the BBC allows you to do so but I think its a poor position to take.

From that you can infer that, despite not particularly consuming its product, I was still prepared to continue to support the BBC. That was on principle, if you like.

I have finished with that principle as I feel that it no longer applies - as per my S. African analogy. The BBC has changed, moved on, like S. Africa. I am therefore no longer applying principles to my relationship - or lack of it - with the BBC. I'll grant you that the BBC is such an all-pervading force in our lives - Mrs. Wow is an inveterate R4 listener, for example, and I occasionally listen to R3 - that it is hard to avoid. But - it's an all-or-nothing relationship, isn't it? Either you pay for a licence or you don't, although I suppose as a point of principle I could pay £49 for a B & W licence just to salve my conscience or, more to the point, your conscience on my behalf.  :P  I can't just pay for radio as there is no mechanism so to do. I can't watch "Pointless" on PAYG. We don't live in Hungary so there isn't a Broadband Tax.
Eating's a serious business. Don't bollocks around wagging your tail.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #58 on: November 03, 2014, 02:55:12 pm »
I suppose as a point of principle I could pay £49 for a B & W licence just to salve my conscience

I though the B&W licence ceased to exist when they stopped transmitting in PAL?  You need a colour receiver these days, even if it's connected to a B&W set (similarly to needing a colour licence for a VCR with a B&W set).


Mind you, I believe they also allow a DVB-S receiver that's been knobbled to only provide audio (radio, for the listening of) without a licence.  So it's hypocrisy all the way down.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Oscar's dad

  • aka Septimus Fitzwilliam Beauregard Partridge
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #59 on: November 03, 2014, 02:57:46 pm »
Wow, cos I love you and wouldn't want anything to interfere with Mrs Wow's enjoyment of Radio 4 in general or "The Archers" in particular, plus I'd hate to upset St. Kevin, I will pay for you to watch "Pointless" on iPlayer.  In return you can carry on keeping me amused on the interweb and buy me the occasional pint.  How does that sound?

 ;D   :-*

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #60 on: November 03, 2014, 02:58:58 pm »
To the moderators: I did not intend this thread to become part of POBI. I started it with a genuine desire to ensure that I am covered in not paying for a licence for a television set that I don't own and don't watch and to consult others who are in a similar position. It really ought to be quite simple.

But it isn't. For reasons that I fail to understand, others have decided to use the thread for other purposes and I find that I have to justify myself when perhaps I ought to tell them to fuck right off - but that wouldn't be particularly excellent, would it?
Eating's a serious business. Don't bollocks around wagging your tail.

ian

  • feat. Undead Jess & Finestre, Queen of Hell
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #61 on: November 03, 2014, 03:21:44 pm »
Oh boo-hoo, Wow. You're the one that politicised this. To then turn around and say you're dumping the BBC because of its biased editorial policies, but hey you'll stick to consuming the bits you like. It's like me boycotting Israel. Except for the oranges, because they're so juicy. Oh, and the dates. So succulent. But that's it, I'm boycotting everything else about the damn place. That'll show 'em.
Support the Great Surrey Bear Census 2020

Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #62 on: November 03, 2014, 03:44:43 pm »
Oh boo-hoo, Wow. You're the one that politicised this. To then turn around and say you're dumping the BBC because of its biased editorial policies, but hey you'll stick to consuming the bits you like. It's like me boycotting Israel. Except for the oranges, because they're so juicy. Oh, and the dates. So succulent. But that's it, I'm boycotting everything else about the damn place. That'll show 'em.

Don't forget the avocados!  :thumbsup:
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #63 on: November 03, 2014, 03:50:48 pm »
As I am entitled to a 50% reduction in a TV licence due to my lack of sight and I do not have a TV or watch live broadcast of any nature, can I trade that against my enjoyment of radios 4, 5, 7, iPlayer and the beeb website please?   :D

My eldest lad has been living here for eighteen months.   Unbeknown to me he watches live streamed content via the internet.   Also unbeknown to me is the fact that he has a TV licence so we actually have one registered at this address.   

Julian

  • samoture
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #64 on: November 03, 2014, 04:16:50 pm »
I haven't had any more visits since offering to let the inspector into the garage to see the pieces of our television.  He queried why I was leading him to the garage and I explained that we keep the television in a cardboard box in the garage because it is in multiple shattered pieces.  He naturally wanted to know more, so I explained (perfectly truthfully) that we shot it.  "Shot it," quoth he, "how?" "With guns," I responded, and he decided that not only did he not need to see it but he could also make a little note explaining that he was satisfied that we really do not have a (working) television.
But, but, but... surely you, or rather Charlotte, shot it with a bow and arrow, not a gun!

We shot it with guns first. :)

Did he then edge carefully out of the garden, keeping you within sight all the time?

I don't know, I didn't watch him leave.  I returned indoors to my cup of tea and whatever activity I was involved in that didn't involve watching TV.  I think I might have been baking.  I was quite surprised not to have any follow up visit from the police.

Otto

  • Biking Bad
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #65 on: November 03, 2014, 04:54:22 pm »
So now that my 86 year old Mother in law is living with us I can cancel my licence?

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #66 on: November 03, 2014, 05:04:28 pm »
So now that my 86 year old Mother in law is living with us I can cancel my licence?

Yes. Apply for a free licence in m-i-l's name.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #67 on: November 03, 2014, 05:07:06 pm »
I haven't had any more visits since offering to let the inspector into the garage to see the pieces of our television.  He queried why I was leading him to the garage and I explained that we keep the television in a cardboard box in the garage because it is in multiple shattered pieces.  He naturally wanted to know more, so I explained (perfectly truthfully) that we shot it.  "Shot it," quoth he, "how?" "With guns," I responded, and he decided that not only did he not need to see it but he could also make a little note explaining that he was satisfied that we really do not have a (working) television.
But, but, but... surely you, or rather Charlotte, shot it with a bow and arrow, not a gun!

We shot it with guns first. :)

Did he then edge carefully out of the garden, keeping you within sight all the time?

I don't know, I didn't watch him leave.  I returned indoors to my cup of tea and whatever activity I was involved in that didn't involve watching TV.  I think I might have been baking.  I was quite surprised not to have any follow up visit from the police.
Obviously a lack of joined-up thinkerisationing between TV and Firearms Licensing (cos I bet you didn't tell him it was actually an air rifle, did you?)
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Otto

  • Biking Bad
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #68 on: November 03, 2014, 05:16:07 pm »
So now that my 86 year old Mother in law is living with us I can cancel my licence?

Yes. Apply for a free licence in m-i-l's name.

Cool

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #69 on: November 03, 2014, 05:18:18 pm »
So now that my 86 year old Mother in law is living with us I can cancel my licence?

Yep. We've been sticking it to The Man for the past ten years and not so much as a single threatening letter.

Some might say that £145.50 a year is a small price to pay not to have to live with your mother in law, but I couldn't possibly comment on that.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #70 on: November 03, 2014, 05:20:55 pm »
So now that my 86 year old Mother in law is living with us I can cancel my licence?

As long as your premises have a television licence, I'm pretty sure you can. IIRC it has to be in the name of the over-75.

There were some interesting shenanigans after my dad moved out, into an old people's home. Getting a straight answer to a straight question when dealing with Crapita was nigh-on impossible. I wanted to find out what should happen about the over-75 licence, which still had some months to run. Did it expire on the date of the person moving out, or what?

All the Crapita bods would tell me was that my dad would need to license the television in his room at the OPH, but he didn't have a telly in his room. The only one available to him was in the lounge, which was (presumably) licensed communally. I pointed out quite clearly to Crapita that he didn't have a telly and therefore didn't need a licence but several letters and phone calls occurred before I found out the truth of the matter: the over-75 licence is allowed to expire in the normal way at the address it licenses even if the old person is no longer living at that address.

That set of correspondence occurred more that 9 years ago, so I do not know it it still applies, but I would doubt that the enforcement bods would have an "old person detector" in their van to check the bona fides of the licence.
Eating's a serious business. Don't bollocks around wagging your tail.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #71 on: November 03, 2014, 05:27:33 pm »
As I understand it the free licence for an old person is just like any other licence (but costs £0) and covers the household at that address.
As long as there is a valid licence for the address, the inspectors are unlikely to call.

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #72 on: November 03, 2014, 05:39:36 pm »
As I understand it the free licence for an old person is just like any other licence (but costs £0) and covers the household at that address.
As long as there is a valid licence for the address, the inspectors are unlikely to call.

I think you are legally required to watch Antiques Roadshow, Strictly Come Dancing and Songs of Praise on an endless loop.

Fortunately the BBC seems to have done the hard work for you and created said endless loop.
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #73 on: November 03, 2014, 05:43:31 pm »
I think you are legally required to watch Antiques Roadshow, Strictly Come Dancing and Songs of Praise on an endless loop.

OTOH it means you don't have to watch Mock The Week or Ferne Cotton Investigates... on BBC Three.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Ditching the television
« Reply #74 on: November 03, 2014, 05:54:44 pm »
As I understand it the free licence for an old person is just like any other licence (but costs £0) and covers the household at that address.
As long as there is a valid licence for the address, the inspectors are unlikely to call.

I think you are legally required to watch Antiques Roadshow, Strictly Come Dancing and Songs of Praise on an endless loop.

Fortunately the BBC seems to have done the hard work for you and created said endless loop.

I don't think my parents watch any of these but their TV is in the bedroom and I don't go there...