Author Topic: [HAMR] Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)  (Read 307718 times)

Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3300 on: January 22, 2016, 09:42:18 pm »
Great stuff  :thumbsup:

So all this talk that Guinness would not ratify it because of pacing was crap then?

Well, their rules are down in black and white! But I imagine Guinness were prepared to accept UMCA's assurance that everything was done properly, and that therefore there was no need to apply further conditions retrospectively.

There's stuff on the VelocipedeSalon thread linked up there^^^ somewhere, a post from Drew Clark of the UMCA saying that they were talking to Guinness about UMCA records being recognised by the Big G.

One of the sticking points was, he said, that the UMCA wanted assurances that Guinness would not subsequently accept submissions of higher mileages which had not been independently verified.

simonp

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Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3301 on: January 22, 2016, 09:44:55 pm »
Guinness have cycling records (unpaced) listed on their websites. Others without.

What does that suggest to you?


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Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3303 on: January 22, 2016, 10:06:08 pm »
Great stuff  :thumbsup:

So all this talk that Guinness would not ratify it because of pacing was crap then?

Well, their rules are down in black and white! But I imagine Guinness were prepared to accept UMCA's assurance that everything was done properly, and that therefore there was no need to apply further conditions retrospectively.

There's stuff on the VelocipedeSalon thread linked up there^^^ somewhere, a post from Drew Clark of the UMCA saying that they were talking to Guinness about UMCA records being recognised by the Big G.

One of the sticking points was, he said, that the UMCA wanted assurances that Guinness would not subsequently accept submissions of higher mileages which had not been independently verified.

So Guinness Records are all a bag of bollox and money talks?

Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3304 on: January 22, 2016, 10:11:11 pm »
Great stuff  :thumbsup:

So all this talk that Guinness would not ratify it because of pacing was crap then?

Well, their rules are down in black and white! But I imagine Guinness were prepared to accept UMCA's assurance that everything was done properly, and that therefore there was no need to apply further conditions retrospectively.

There's stuff on the VelocipedeSalon thread linked up there^^^ somewhere, a post from Drew Clark of the UMCA saying that they were talking to Guinness about UMCA records being recognised by the Big G.

One of the sticking points was, he said, that the UMCA wanted assurances that Guinness would not subsequently accept submissions of higher mileages which had not been independently verified.

So Guinness Records are all a bag of bollox and money talks?

I doubt that UMCA have loadsamoney to throw at Guinness.   I think it's more to do with credibility; if Guinness don't recognise an obvious record, how can they claim to be a proper reference?

IanDG

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Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3305 on: January 22, 2016, 10:27:01 pm »
Great stuff  :thumbsup:

So all this talk that Guinness would not ratify it because of pacing was crap then?

Well, their rules are down in black and white! But I imagine Guinness were prepared to accept UMCA's assurance that everything was done properly, and that therefore there was no need to apply further conditions retrospectively.

There's stuff on the VelocipedeSalon thread linked up there^^^ somewhere, a post from Drew Clark of the UMCA saying that they were talking to Guinness about UMCA records being recognised by the Big G.

One of the sticking points was, he said, that the UMCA wanted assurances that Guinness would not subsequently accept submissions of higher mileages which had not been independently verified.

So Guinness Records are all a bag of bollox and money talks?

I doubt that UMCA have loadsamoney to throw at Guinness.   I think it's more to do with credibility; if Guinness don't recognise an obvious record, how can they claim to be a proper reference?

'Money' was figurative speaking- The problem I have ismy perception of UMCA trying to get a stranglehold on the year record. Who ratifies the 7 day, month, round the world records? Why aren't they subjected to the same scrutiny UMCA are suggesting is needed for a year record?


Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3306 on: January 22, 2016, 10:40:08 pm »
Steve asked UMCA to be involved. 

IanDG

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Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3307 on: January 22, 2016, 10:46:48 pm »
I understand that - but why does that have to be the future benchmark?

Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3308 on: January 22, 2016, 10:49:30 pm »
I understand that - but why does that have to be the future benchmark?

Same hymn-sheet and all that I suppose.  If someone has created a record, you might want to have a go at that one rather than another vaguely similar.

Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3309 on: January 22, 2016, 10:50:08 pm »
'Money' was figurative speaking- The problem I have ismy perception of UMCA trying to get a stranglehold on the year record. Who ratifies the 7 day, month, round the world records? Why aren't they subjected to the same scrutiny UMCA are suggesting is needed for a year record?

Guinness does, and they are scrutinised to (I assume) roughly the same degree.

AIUI you can get details of what evidence is required for a record ride from Guinness for free. Go off and do the ride. Then submit all of the paperwork, logs, witness details, videos, photos, etc and Guinness will eventually decide if it was valid or not. The more evidence you provide the better chance you have of it being accepted in full.

Bruce claims the Guinness week and month records but it looks like he was just pointing at uploads to Strava as his evidence. That may be why Guinness don't acknowledge his claim on the record.

If you want the record to be acknowledged faster you can pay Guinness and they'll oversee it more actively, but you still need all of the same evidence. They just keep reasonably up to date with the scrutinising. That's exactly what the UMCA do (which you have to pay for). The UMCA agreed to oversee the year effort because some of the Guinness rules weren't acceptable to people wanting to do the new challenge (no drafting, starting from where previously stopped, etc). Steve, Hoppo and a bunch of others were responsible for drafting the HAM'R rules with the UMCA.

Guinness are happy with the standard of scrutinising that the UMCA do, so they accept any records done under their oversight. Hence why Kurt is the new Guinness World Record holder. As Ian says, if they didn't then people would think Guinness are losing their edge.

They [Guinness] would probably look to accept a record overseen by any other entity that meets their standards of scrutiny. The UMCA have no more of a monopoly on the record than Guinness. Guinness just wants to keep its place as the most recognised brand.

They probably also realise that their rules (no drafting, etc) will preclude any men attempting the record with them, so it's an easy way for them to abandon that. I know Kajsa is going with Guinness, maybe she's happy with their rules and don't think they will limit her such that she can't set a new record.
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IanDG

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Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3310 on: January 22, 2016, 10:55:12 pm »
I understand that - but why does that have to be the future benchmark?

Same hymn-sheet and all that I suppose.  If someone has created a record, you might want to have a go at that one rather than another vaguely similar.

Aye, same hymn sheet  RRA, UMCA and whatever the antipodean, european equivalent is

edit: what I'm trying to say is  good on UMCA for getting Guinness approval as it brings it to the public domain, but why should UMCA be the  sole arbitrator of what is/isn't a year mileage record in the future.

edit 2: A nice logical reply Greenbank :)


red marley

Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3311 on: January 23, 2016, 05:34:01 pm »

woollypigs

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Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3312 on: January 23, 2016, 05:35:35 pm »
That is great.
Do join a demo near you - https://t.co/Ai5EfHuKUo

mmmmartin

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Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3313 on: January 23, 2016, 05:45:34 pm »
it was a pretty close-run thing. he did well.
Besides, it wouldn't be audacious if success were guaranteed.

crowriver

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Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3314 on: January 23, 2016, 07:12:05 pm »
Really captures the long, drawn out drama of the year.
Embrace your inner Fred.

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Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3315 on: January 23, 2016, 09:37:50 pm »
Guinness have cycling records (unpaced) listed on their websites. Others without.

What does that suggest to you?

Hmm.  They have "Fastest speed in a human-powered vehicle (female)", but no corresponding male record, although I've seen it in the dead-tree version before.
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Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3316 on: January 23, 2016, 10:04:21 pm »
Hello YACFers!

Thank you for all the support you've given Kurt and I. What a year, huh. I wish I had the words to describe it in short, although, I believe Jo's graph does a good job from a different perspective (one I haven't seen yet even though I was in the thuck of it). All I can say is: it wasn't easy! No matter how you look at it, over 200 miles on ANY bike day after day after day after day after day after day, etc..... is not easy.

I would like to say something on behalf of the UMCA. It was a surprise to us that they approached Guinness. We are thrilled that they did. Kurt deserves this record title. There will always be controversy about the way this record is handled, that's the historic nature of this sport and the opinions of so many. What I do know is that UMCA was asked to become the officiating body. They are all volunteers who are ultra cyclists themselves, most are highly educated professionals. What I've experienced is that the UMCA is here to advance, support and organize a framework for ultracycling not monopolize it. Anyways, I have a great respect for them and the efforts that they go to for the love of their sport.

As we all know, this is not about fame and glory. It's about human ability and how far we can push it individually. The critics, haters, trolls and douchbags will always be out there, haha. It takes a lot to ride right through it. However, anyone who chooses to take this challenge on, be smart and make it count.

It's been fun and entertaining to read the comments. It's not difficult to spot the heart of the true endurance cyclists.

Ride on!
You-know-who  ;D



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Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3317 on: January 23, 2016, 10:07:41 pm »
...  All I can say is: it wasn't easy!  ...

No shit, Sherlock!

... and very, very well done.

Aunt Maud

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Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3318 on: January 23, 2016, 10:13:18 pm »
It's been impressive watching you both work through it, congratulations too.

Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3319 on: January 23, 2016, 10:17:21 pm »
Hello YACFers!

Thank you for all the support you've given Kurt and I. What a year, huh. I wish I had the words to describe it in short, although, I believe Jo's graph does a good job from a different perspective (one I haven't seen yet even though I was in the thuck of it). All I can say is: it wasn't easy! No matter how you look at it, over 200 miles on ANY bike day after day after day after day after day after day, etc..... is not easy.

I would like to say something on behalf of the UMCA. It was a surprise to us that they approached Guinness. We are thrilled that they did. Kurt deserves this record title. There will always be controversy about the way this record is handled, that's the historic nature of this sport and the opinions of so many. What I do know is that UMCA was asked to become the officiating body. They are all volunteers who are ultra cyclists themselves, most are highly educated professionals. What I've experienced is that the UMCA is here to advance, support and organize a framework for ultracycling not monopolize it. Anyways, I have a great respect for them and the efforts that they go to for the love of their sport.

As we all know, this is not about fame and glory. It's about human ability and how far we can push it individually. The critics, haters, trolls and douchbags will always be out there, haha. It takes a lot to ride right through it. However, anyone who chooses to take this challenge on, be smart and make it count.

It's been fun and entertaining to read the comments. It's not difficult to spot the heart of the true endurance cyclists.

Ride on!
You-know-who  ;D

Wooo-eee <cue mad waving>

Hiya and welcome, oops, I've come over all celebrity dumbstruck.

Bloody good show, anyhow! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

ETA - is your forum name a clue to the Seekrit Weapon that got Kurt round?

IanDG

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Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3320 on: January 23, 2016, 10:25:56 pm »
It's been great following the years events. Congratulations to you both  :thumbsup:

Great that UMCA got involved with the record and wonderful news that Guinness accepted it after all. Some reassuring words on UMCA's role in your post that allay my concerns.

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Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3321 on: January 23, 2016, 10:36:56 pm »
Hello YACFers!


Gosh. It's her herself.   :D

Many, many congratulations on this incredible achievement.  I don't pretend I can even begin to comprehend what Kurt went through.  There were times I thought his mood was so low that he'd not get through to the end.
Well done you, for rubbing the magic ointments into his mind.

Oh.  And welcome to yacf.  Please hang around a while.
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Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3322 on: January 23, 2016, 10:48:45 pm »
ETA - is your forum name a clue to the Seekrit Weapon that got Kurt round?

Paging Hummers1!  Hummers to the ACMETM Smut-O-Matic!

1:  Or Rogerzilla.  Or Zipperhead.  Or...
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Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3323 on: January 23, 2016, 10:56:00 pm »
Welcome Voldemort  ;D

Seriously, you have both done an amazing thing, quite amazing!
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woollypigs

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Re: Tarzan (Kurt Searvogel)
« Reply #3324 on: January 23, 2016, 10:58:58 pm »
Ah, the cracking whip :)
Do join a demo near you - https://t.co/Ai5EfHuKUo