Author Topic: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery  (Read 13758 times)

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2015, 12:14:32 pm »
....after the `tarte de pommes`, and  fortified by a couple of shots of limoncellos,  I flew up the Col de Bavella whilst thunderstorms rolled around the peaks above

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
    • Occasional wittering
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2015, 12:22:51 pm »

Note. Re. 2 front lights. I think the scrutineers check you have 2 working front lights so it's more than just a nice-to-have.

Not quite (from regulation 8 of the rules) - recommendation, not requirement:

Bikes must possess a lighting system powerful enough to be seen at a distance of 100 m from the front and 150 m from the rear. It must be securely and permanently fixed on the bike, even during daytime, and in working order at all times. Flashing LEDs at the rear are forbidden. Backup lighting systems are strongly recommended.
Lights must be turned on at all times during hours of darkness or other low-light conditions, whether the participant rides alone or in a group.
If the controllers stop a rider because of no lighting or insufficient lighting, they will not allow him or her to continue until the lighting failure has been repaired, unless he or she has emergency lighting. In this case he or she may ride to the next checkpoint.


I really don't remember anything where you needed really powerful lights.  It's all big roads, decent surfaces, and little in the way of steep and twisty. 

Certainly having bright lights is hardly going to gain you that much extra sleeping time.  You'd probably lose any time made up by descending 5-10kph quicker when you have to change the batteries.

As mattc (and some other bloke with glasses) says

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNNxeovdN5U&list=RDHNNxeovdN5U#t=18

will do you just fine.  Nothing particularly special needed.  Dynamo or battery.  Both work. 
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!


....after the `tarte de pommes`, and  fortified by a couple of shots of limoncellos,  I flew up the Col de Bavella whilst thunderstorms rolled around the peaks above

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2015, 12:59:02 pm »

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2015, 12:59:40 pm »
Quote
Bikes must possess a lighting system powerful enough to be seen at a distance of 100 m from the front and 150 m from the rear. It must be securely and permanently fixed on the bike, even during daytime, and in working order at all times.

Is this a translation issue?  I can't think of many battery-powered front lights that are *permanently* fixed on the bike, by any reasonable definition of the term (eg. "something you need tools to remove").

Perhaps they're trying to say "lights must be in place for the duration of the event"?
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2015, 01:37:00 pm »


I hope they don't lack sprightliness.  I also spend the vast majority of my time climbing steep hills.  I hope they aren't heavy on those either. 

Serious buyers panic now.  It's all my savings on three wheels....if they feel slow compared to a £200 factory set I shall be absolutely gutted.

You gonna be sooooo sloooowww, you'll have to give yourself an extra week  :P

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2015, 01:47:12 pm »
SO: any lighting that gets you through a UK night-ride is adequate. You just need to be sure of 3x the time requirement (or maybe 4x for many of us?).

I think there's a far higher proportion of unlit road on PBP, than on the typical UK night ride.  And the roads often lack any white lines, again more so than in the UK.  And of course PBP nights are 10 hours long, which is longer than on UK qualifying 400s and 600s.  This all contributes to a general impression of blackness.

And the 3x requirement is significant because it makes use of rechargables much more problematic - and for many people the words 'battery' and 'rechargable' seem to go together like ham and eggs.

There's no difficulty with buying AAs en route but I wouldn't do this - because alkaline cells (which is what you would be buying) are simply completely useless in high-power lights.  I would set out carrying sufficient lithium AAs to last the whole event - say 20 unlit night hours but YMMV - that would weigh no more, and probably less, than any rechargable solution to cover the same duration.  I think last time Sheila rode she set off with 24 AAs and brought 8 back unused.
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2015, 02:57:56 pm »
Quote
Bikes must possess a lighting system powerful enough to be seen at a distance of 100 m from the front and 150 m from the rear. It must be securely and permanently fixed on the bike, even during daytime, and in working order at all times.

Is this a translation issue?  I can't think of many battery-powered front lights that are *permanently* fixed on the bike, by any reasonable definition of the term (eg. "something you need tools to remove").

Perhaps they're trying to say "lights must be in place for the duration of the event"?

They just mean the light is fixed to the bike and not to yourself or a bag I think.
They were perfectly happy with the velcro bracket on my backup Fenix pen torch front light at the bike check last time.

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #59 on: February 19, 2015, 01:10:06 am »
Quote
Bikes must possess a lighting system powerful enough to be seen at a distance of 100 m from the front and 150 m from the rear. It must be securely and permanently fixed on the bike, even during daytime, and in working order at all times.

Is this a translation issue?  I can't think of many battery-powered front lights that are *permanently* fixed on the bike, by any reasonable definition of the term (eg. "something you need tools to remove").

Perhaps they're trying to say "lights must be in place for the duration of the event"?

They just mean the light is fixed to the bike and not to yourself or a bag I think.
They were perfectly happy with the velcro bracket on my backup Fenix pen torch front light at the bike check last time.

Aye, looking at the French text, I'd go for wording something like "it must be securely attached, and permanently on the cycle, even during daylight" - as Feline says, they want it on the bike, not flopping around on your luggage, and it needs to be ready for use at all times so in poor visibility you can just switch it on rather than (not) stopping to root around in your bag to dig it out.

Quote
Les cycles doivent être munis d'un éclairage à l’avant et à l’arrière, suffisamment puissant pour être visible à 100 mètres devant et à 150 mètres derrière. Cet éclairage doit être solidement fixé et en permanence sur le cycle, même le jour, en constant état de fonctionnement. A l’arrière, la diode rouge en fonction clignotante est interdite.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #60 on: February 19, 2015, 02:44:37 pm »
Thought so.   :thumbsup:
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

marcusjb

  • Full of bon courage.
    • Occasional wittering
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #61 on: February 19, 2015, 02:53:25 pm »
A french man shakes your bike.

Nothing falls off (and you wave a reflective gilet at him) ----> here's a sticker

Stuff falls off ----> here's an expensive bike shop that sells stuff that doesn't fall off, come back poorer and I will shake your bike again
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #62 on: February 19, 2015, 02:56:34 pm »
I would set out carrying sufficient lithium AAs to last the whole event - say 20 unlit night hours but YMMV - that would weigh no more, and probably less, than any rechargable solution to cover the same duration.  I think last time Sheila rode she set off with 24 AAs and brought 8 back unused.

Thanks, that puts it in quantifiable terms I can understand.  :thumbsup:

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2015, 03:06:03 pm »
A french man shakes your bike.

Nothing falls off (and you wave a reflective gilet at him) ----> here's a sticker

Stuff falls off ----> here's an expensive bike shop that sells stuff that doesn't fall off, come back poorer and I will shake your bike again

Ah, the cycleman test.   ;D
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #64 on: February 20, 2015, 10:36:14 am »

Note. Re. 2 front lights. I think the scrutineers check you have 2 working front lights so it's more than just a nice-to-have.

Not quite (from regulation 8 of the rules) - recommendation, not requirement:

Bikes must possess a lighting system powerful enough to be seen at a distance of 100 m from the front and 150 m from the rear. It must be securely and permanently fixed on the bike, even during daytime, and in working order at all times. Flashing LEDs at the rear are forbidden. Backup lighting systems are strongly recommended.
Lights must be turned on at all times during hours of darkness or other low-light conditions, whether the participant rides alone or in a group.
If the controllers stop a rider because of no lighting or insufficient lighting, they will not allow him or her to continue until the lighting failure has been repaired, unless he or she has emergency lighting. In this case he or she may ride to the next checkpoint.


I really don't remember anything where you needed really powerful lights.  It's all big roads, decent surfaces, and little in the way of steep and twisty. 

Certainly having bright lights is hardly going to gain you that much extra sleeping time.  You'd probably lose any time made up by descending 5-10kph quicker when you have to change the batteries.

As mattc (and some other bloke with glasses) says

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNNxeovdN5U&list=RDHNNxeovdN5U#t=18

will do you just fine.  Nothing particularly special needed.  Dynamo or battery.  Both work.

Last time, Andy, who I had started with, told me at the end that, on the last night, his dynamo had packed up and his back-up front light had run down its battery.  So he had to resort to using a little keyring with an LED in it that they had given us at one of the controls.  He managed to ride ok with that until the sun came up!

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #65 on: February 20, 2015, 12:57:05 pm »
Just got one of these http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/LISMLU60/smart-lunar-60-lux-front-light
On first look last night it seems not dissimilar to the Hope Vision 1 (both on high setting) in terms of brightness and beam shape
Claimed run time of 3 hours on high is also about the same but with just 2 AAs rather than 4.

A pair of them running Lithiums would be a cheap, lightweight, battery option.  Or just one as back-up to another system, with the option of buying more AAs along the way if you things go pear-shaped with your primary light.

My only fear would be that Smarts have less than stellar reputation if it gets very wet.



wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #66 on: February 20, 2015, 01:59:05 pm »
Just got one of these http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/LISMLU60/smart-lunar-60-lux-front-light
On first look last night it seems not dissimilar to the Hope Vision 1 (both on high setting) in terms of brightness and beam shape
Claimed run time of 3 hours on high is also about the same but with just 2 AAs rather than 4.

A pair of them running Lithiums would be a cheap, lightweight, battery option.  Or just one as back-up to another system, with the option of buying more AAs along the way if you things go pear-shaped with your primary light.

My only fear would be that Smarts have less than stellar reputation if it gets very wet.

I use one of these as my backup:  http://www.wiggle.co.uk/cateye-hl-el130-led-front-light/

I often have it on at the same time as the dyno light to look more like a bike to motorists.  A pair of AAs lasts several day/night outings (so probably most of the darkness on PBP).  I keep a pair of AAs in the bag for when they die -- I tested a new pair of AAs the other day, but couldn't tell if they were any brighter, so put the old ones back in, and they've been there since November -- I am not expecting to run out, even if the dyno quits on me.  The light-output isn't anywhere near as good (=bright & shapely) as my dyno, but I think it's better than Mrs W's old Smart front light and it's bright enough to ride by (not super-speed, though).  It's also smaller and easier to pack away than a Smart, which is a bit bulbous (although I tend to just leave it mounted, as it weighs the same wherever it's stashed).  As a cheap, useable backup, it ticks the boxes for me.

As a bonus, additional brackets are cheap and available from my LBS, so it also serves as the main light on my town bike:  although that has a Raleigh DynoHub (that is actually embossed into its chrome fascia), the bulb's piss-poor and the lens is yellow with age  :facepalm:
RRTY #7 done.  Need something else to do ... ah, welcome #8 8)

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #67 on: February 20, 2015, 03:14:34 pm »
In summary, anyone who is concerned about riding through the night on PBP roads must have better local lanes than I do.

Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #68 on: February 20, 2015, 03:26:50 pm »
In 2007 in the wet I fequently got caught behind riders being cautious on descents and being unable to get past due to the twisty roads. Maybe if they had better lights they'd be more confident. I had two lights and the brightest was only used when I was in front and with no oncoming traffic which added to the difficulty of getting past cautious riders.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #69 on: February 20, 2015, 04:34:20 pm »
In 2007 in the wet I fequently got caught behind riders being cautious on descents and being unable to get past due to the twisty roads. Maybe if they had better lights they'd be more confident.
Maybe; but probably not.

 even in dry daylight, there is a big range in descending confidence on your average audax.

When its wet, people vary even more.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #70 on: February 20, 2015, 10:33:54 pm »
If you are using batteries take spares with you..........I found only one source of batteries...lidl ( don't now where )

If I do this edition I have dynamo lights which are way better than my battery lights.

cheers

dave
We're supposed to be feeding them not fatting them........quote from chef on LEL

huggy

  • ACME GCFO +&+ Mr RRtY
    • ACME
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #71 on: March 02, 2015, 08:45:06 am »
I empathise with some of the angst being expressed by some in this thread as I have just emerged from the same, the better for it I believe.  Having been vetoed an n+1 this year and with PBP on the horizon I decided to upgrade my Salsa Vaya with a new set of dynohub disc brake wheels. I was encouraged to contact Harry Rowland for hand built wheels to spec for my needs of Audax and light touring - Harry told me what I needed once I'd selected the dynohub (you don't contradict Harry if you want him to build wheels for you).  My equipment list is:
  • Shimano 32H DH-3D80 disc hub dynamo, purchased from Rose and sent to Harry.
  • Shimano 36H Deore FH-M525-A disc rear wheel hub, supplied by Harry.
  • Ryde Sputnik rims, supplied & built on stated hubs very quickly from point of order by Harry.
  • B + M Lumotec IQ2 Luxos U senso plus front headlamp with USB connection, from Rose.
  • B + M Toplight View Brake Plus dynamo back light, from Rose.
  • Light cable - twin-core, from Rose (you'll need this to connect the rear light to front light).
I also fitted new disc rotors, pads, 11-34 cassette & chain and Conti GP4000 IIs 28c tyres, all sourced from various vendors.

So far the longest ride has been a 30 mile MEMWNS (look it up in the Rides & Touring board) evening trip with a first 200k Audax this coming weekend - The Horsepower.  With my limited experience on my new set up so far all I can say is that I don't expect to regret anything, especially not the ability to power my GPS and have the backlight on all night!
I feel my ride was smoother and quicker than on previous factory built wheels, that may have something to do with the new chain & cassette and cleaned jockey wheels & crank of course.
Looking forward to not looking back  :thumbsup:
Never knowingly underfed on an Audax

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #72 on: March 02, 2015, 11:09:06 am »
  • Shimano 32H DH-3D80 disc hub dynamo, purchased from Rose and sent to Harry.
  • B + M Lumotec IQ2 Luxos U senso plus front headlamp with USB connection, from Rose.
  • B + M Toplight View Brake Plus dynamo back light, from Rose.
  • Light cable - twin-core, from Rose (you'll need this to connect the rear light to front light).
...
Looking forward to not looking back  :thumbsup:

I've been running this setup (on slightly different hubs) ever since the IQ2 was available over here back in 2013: it has been tested in some rough conditions and it hasn't let me down.  The beam shape is an acquired taste apparently, but I have always liked it; a small trade-off for USB power, as it's more than bright enough for fast night riding.  The Toplight series of rear lights are nice: bright enough to be seen, not so bright they blind, standlight, and integrated reflector.

Just remember that USB's not waterproof, so you can only charge when it's not raining -- get this wrong and your lights might start behaving strangely (I have a Mk I and I have to be careful when washing the bike -- this may be fixed in the Mk IIs, which don't have a removable remote switch).  You shouldn't need to charge on a 200 anyway, at least not unless you're ECE'ing it; and you might find one of these short cables usefully uncluttering for when you do: mini-USB for Garmin 800/810 (or something a bit more cluttery if you use the Out-Front mount -- if you're good with a soldering iron, this can be shortened), or micro-USB for Garmin 1000.

Also, you probably want to charge during the day, as charging with the light on dims the light noticeably.  I find my Garmin 800 lasts right through the darkened hours from a full-ish charge on a dimmed/off screen.

For the length of PBP I intend to use the USB during the day to recharge a 10,000mAh battery pack, which I will use to charge my phone (for toonz) and the Garmin.  The Garmin is really just a glorified speedo-cum-ride-recorder on PBP, so if I have to charge in the rain then I will drop it into the pack to charge in the dry and follow the arrows for an hour or two.  I reckon it takes ~20 hours to recharge the battery pack from flat from the IQ2's USB port -- but one full charge should give me enough to recharge the phone five times (I should only need it recharging twice, perhaps three times on PBP), or the Garmin about eight times (I should need six, I think).  If the battery pack fails then I will charge directly from USB; if I lose USB then I will use the battery pack for the GPS-only; if I lose both then I will just ride my bike.  I might even reassess and use a smaller and lighter battery pack closer to the time (it's a bit weighty at ~260g).
RRTY #7 done.  Need something else to do ... ah, welcome #8 8)

huggy

  • ACME GCFO +&+ Mr RRtY
    • ACME
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #73 on: March 02, 2015, 12:02:45 pm »
Agree with everything, Wilky, good to hear about the reliability of the IQ2 considering your extensive punishment testing of it :)
What isn't shown on the current IQ2 is that there is an additional wire coming out of the switch with somewhat weatherproofed inline connector that has a female USB tail to plug in to it - that tail is just about long enough to reach my handlebar bag to keep it out of the rain, although some additional rain protection is planned.  When not in use the USB inline connector has a rubber cap to keep it protected.  I may get round to posting a few pics if interested.

Re the beam pattern - yes, it's a bit different to the Hope Vision 1 with the more spread field of beam which may incorrectly be considered as providing a less bright illumination of the road.  When I tried turning on the Hope in addition to IQ2 the general illumination of what's ahead did not significantly improve - I'll be carrying a Hope as my backup light but not expecting to use it to supplement the IQ2.

I have an eTrex 30 so I'm powering it rather than charging it, the main advantage being for the night time always on backlight and not depleting the AA batteries until needed.  I also have a 9000mAh battery pack that I will charge and use similar to your description, its main use will be for topping up mobile phone and backup to other power sources should it be required.
Never knowingly underfed on an Audax

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #74 on: March 02, 2015, 09:30:19 pm »
Is the IQ2 Luxos always 'on' -- i.e., when the light isn't switched on, is it still charging the internal battery? And if so, does that mean the 'drag' is several times that of, say, a not switched on Cyo (or any light without an internal battery)?