Author Topic: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery  (Read 13769 times)

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #75 on: March 02, 2015, 09:48:04 pm »
Is the IQ2 Luxos always 'on' -- i.e., when the light isn't switched on, is it still charging the internal battery? And if so, does that mean the 'drag' is several times that of, say, a not switched on Cyo (or any light without an internal battery)?

The battery charge controller won't draw current indefinitely (otherwise the battery would suffer a magic smoke release).  I've no idea about the switching behaviour, but once the battery is full I'm sure the current draw drops to half a percent of bugger all.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #76 on: March 02, 2015, 10:30:00 pm »
Is the IQ2 Luxos always 'on' -- i.e., when the light isn't switched on, is it still charging the internal battery? And if so, does that mean the 'drag' is several times that of, say, a not switched on Cyo (or any light without an internal battery)?

The battery charge controller won't draw current indefinitely (otherwise the battery would suffer a magic smoke release).  I've no idea about the switching behaviour, but once the battery is full I'm sure the current draw drops to half a percent of bugger all.

While true, it's also got DRL - and I'm fairly sure I've read that the draw for them is not far off that for the main beam. Not that I notice it in use, mind.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #77 on: March 02, 2015, 10:41:00 pm »
While true, it's also got DRL - and I'm fairly sure I've read that the draw for them is not far off that for the main beam. Not that I notice it in use, mind.

I haven't got a Luxos, but I have got a Cyo T Senso Premium.  The DRL mode draws about three times as much current as the night time beam mode (assuming the dynamo is turning fast enough to supply that much).  Not sure if you can extrapolate to the Luxos...
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

huggy

  • ACME GCFO +&+ Mr RRtY
    • ACME
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #78 on: March 02, 2015, 11:00:41 pm »
The battery charge controller won't draw current indefinitely (otherwise the battery would suffer a magic smoke release).  I've no idea about the switching behaviour, but once the battery is full I'm sure the current draw drops to half a percent of bugger all.

Quote from: b+m manual
If the cache battery is empty it takes about ten minutes of cycling at 15km/h to charge it completely if the headlight is switched off and no USB devices are connected to the handlebar button.

Quote from: b+m manual
DRL in Day mode
The headlamp shines dimmed onto the road, the additional daytime running LEDs shine with full intensity, maximum visibility for oncoming traffic!
No mention of respective load on the dynamo though, just switch it off entirely during daylight if you don't need the auto switch on at dusk or have to warn on coming traffic of your presence.
Never knowingly underfed on an Audax

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #79 on: March 02, 2015, 11:40:15 pm »
The battery charge controller won't draw current indefinitely (otherwise the battery would suffer a magic smoke release).  I've no idea about the switching behaviour, but once the battery is full I'm sure the current draw drops to half a percent of bugger all.

Quote from: b+m manual
If the cache battery is empty it takes about ten minutes of cycling at 15km/h to charge it completely if the headlight is switched off and no USB devices are connected to the handlebar button.

Quote from: b+m manual
DRL in Day mode
The headlamp shines dimmed onto the road, the additional daytime running LEDs shine with full intensity, maximum visibility for oncoming traffic!
No mention of respective load on the dynamo though, just switch it off entirely during daylight if you don't need the auto switch on at dusk or have to warn on coming traffic of your presence.

You can turn the Luxos 'off' so no DRL or headlight (or auto-switching between them) and still take power from the USB thingy.
In this condition I've consistently failed to take enough off it, either charging a cache battery, or a hungry smartphone, to discharge the internal battery.
Lights on and it's a different ball game: The red LED in the switch is on-again off-again every few minutes with either smartphone or cache battery.

With lights on (front dipped and rear) Luxos will still give the 100 mW r so needed by the Etrex Vista running nav and low % backlit screen. 

 

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #80 on: March 03, 2015, 01:02:26 am »
My problem (in this regard at any rate) is at least two-fold. I'm bone idle, and much prefer to let the light do the thinking required as to when it should be on rather than, perish the thought, have to actually operate the switch. Second, I'm not at all confident I've got the Luxos' switching modes sussed: it appears to have a mind of its own, so after a few episodes of randomly stabbing at the button, now that it's on permanently (well, with DRL during the day) I just leave it that way.

wilkyboy

  • "nick" by any other name
    • 16-inch wheels
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #81 on: March 03, 2015, 08:50:32 am »
My problem (in this regard at any rate) is at least two-fold. I'm bone idle, and much prefer to let the light do the thinking required as to when it should be on rather than, perish the thought, have to actually operate the switch. Second, I'm not at all confident I've got the Luxos' switching modes sussed: it appears to have a mind of its own, so after a few episodes of randomly stabbing at the button, now that it's on permanently (well, with DRL during the day) I just leave it that way.

Personally, I find the trick with the Luxos IQ2 is this (I have a mk I):
  • To switch it on, press and hold firmly for one second and one second only -- two seconds switches it on and then switches it off
  • To check whether it's on or off, press the button once quickly and watch the blue light (high beam) within the switch:
    • if it stays on then the lamp was on and you're now high-beaming everyone; don't forget to hit the button once more to switch off high beam
    • if it goes on and then off again within about a second then the lamp was off -- and still is off -- and you just flashed oncoming traffic
  • If you have a B&M Topline rear light then you can see when that's on because the top edge lights up brightly -- it's only on when the front lamp is on (and for about 4 minutes after the front lamp goes out); you have to be able to see it from the saddle, though, for this tip to be useful (I can with mine)
  • Of course, if you can see the back of the front lamp from where you're sitting, the lamp state is shown in the rubber switch there; I can't see mine, hence the tricks above.
I don't notice the drag from the hub any more than any other bit of the bike, so I leave the light running.  Wind resistance, rolling resistance and weight all have far, far greater effects than the measly few Watts from the dynamo ... and that's why I'll be finishing PBP at least 50km behind everyone else, m'lud  :facepalm:
RRTY #7 done.  Need something else to do ... ah, welcome #8 8)

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #82 on: March 03, 2015, 09:10:09 am »
I don't notice the drag from the hub any more than any other bit of the bike, so I leave the light running.  Wind resistance, rolling resistance and weight all have far, far greater effects than the measly few Watts from the dynamo ...

Which is how I see it too.
Preparation and fitness are obviously important [and it would be very unwise to ignore them], and not wishing to drag the tread away from the subject, but it feels like a fitting place to repeat a quote I read the other day by Han Wessels. To be honest, I'm not sure of the context, but it made a lot of sense and worth remembering,IMO.

"Stop worrying about bike weights and so on. Most important aspect of a PBP bike is it being comfortable. You will ride on it for a long, long time. Your daily commute bike might be a very good PBP bike. You ride a lot on it, it is dependable and you know the bike by heart."
Garry Broad

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #83 on: March 03, 2015, 10:32:41 am »
I'm bone idle, and much prefer to let the light do the thinking required as to when it should be on rather than, perish the thought, have to actually operate the switch.
;D   You'll be wanting it to turn the pedals for you next  ;D
Second, I'm not at all confident I've got the Luxos' switching modes sussed: it appears to have a mind of its own, so after a few episodes of randomly stabbing at the button, now that it's on permanently (well, with DRL during the day) I just leave it that way.
I found I actually had to read the instructions  :o  before I was confident I knew what I was doing with it.
Nick's post is a good substitute if you've lost yours ! 
That said - I'm not infrequently peering around my stem to check I have light on (by reference to the LEDs on the rear mounted switch) ... and occasionally craning around further to check the LEDs are not lying and the light is really really on at both front and back.   Paranoid? Moi?

LEE

  • "Shut Up Jens" - Legs.
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #84 on: March 03, 2015, 11:46:32 am »
"Stop worrying about bike weights and so on. Most important aspect of a PBP bike is it being comfortable.
You will ride on it for a long, long time. Your daily commute bike might be a very good PBP bike.
You ride a lot on it, it is dependable and you know the bike by heart."

If you remember just one piece of advice then remember this.

Between now and August I will be concentrating on getting my bike comfy.  I'll start a separate thread "PBP Comfort Issues" where we can document all potential pitfalls and tips how to avoid them.
Some people say I'm self-obsessed but that's enough about them.

Salvatore

  • Джон Спунър
    • Pics
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #85 on: March 03, 2015, 11:54:40 am »
I don't notice the drag from the hub any more than any other bit of the bike, so I leave the light running.  Wind resistance, rolling resistance and weight all have far, far greater effects than the measly few Watts from the dynamo ...

Which is how I see it too.
Preparation and fitness are obviously important [and it would be very unwise to ignore them], and not wishing to drag the tread away from the subject, but it feels like a fitting place to repeat a quote I read the other day by Han Wessels. To be honest, I'm not sure of the context, but it made a lot of sense and worth remembering,IMO.

"<b>Stop worrying about bike weights and so on.</b> Most important aspect of a PBP bike is it being comfortable. You will ride on it for a long, long time. Your daily commute bike might be a very good PBP bike. You ride a lot on it, it is dependable and you know the bike by heart."

All well and good, Mr Von Broad, but isn't it best to worry about weight and so on now, rather than 50 km from the finish of PBP?

Otherwise you might find yourself having to get rid of all extraneous luggage, hide it behind a hedge, finish the ride with 5 minutes to spare, and go back the following day to retrieve it.
Quote
et avec John, excellent lecteur de road-book, on s'en est sortis sans erreur

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #86 on: March 03, 2015, 04:38:25 pm »
I don't notice the drag from the hub any more than any other bit of the bike, so I leave the light running.  Wind resistance, rolling resistance and weight all have far, far greater effects than the measly few Watts from the dynamo ...

Which is how I see it too.
Preparation and fitness are obviously important [and it would be very unwise to ignore them], and not wishing to drag the tread away from the subject, but it feels like a fitting place to repeat a quote I read the other day by Han Wessels. To be honest, I'm not sure of the context, but it made a lot of sense and worth remembering,IMO.

"<b>Stop worrying about bike weights and so on.</b> Most important aspect of a PBP bike is it being comfortable. You will ride on it for a long, long time. Your daily commute bike might be a very good PBP bike. You ride a lot on it, it is dependable and you know the bike by heart."

All well and good, Mr Von Broad, but isn't it best to worry about weight and so on now, rather than 50 km from the finish of PBP?

Otherwise you might find yourself having to get rid of all extraneous luggage, hide it behind a hedge, finish the ride with 5 minutes to spare, and go back the following day to retrieve it.

to a point---however for my speed / rate ascent (which is where weight does matter most) I reckon, from my observations, that each extra kg (bike, luggage or me) I`ll spend an extra minute per 700m ascent. So PBP each extra kg >> 15minutes extra; so in the end it depends on how close a call to cut off time it all becomes as to whether reduced weight is more critical than comfort 
....after the `tarte de pommes`, and  fortified by a couple of shots of limoncellos,  I flew up the Col de Bavella whilst thunderstorms rolled around the peaks above

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #87 on: March 03, 2015, 05:41:11 pm »
All well and good, Mr Von Broad, but isn't it best to worry about weight and so on now, rather than 50 km from the finish of PBP?
Otherwise you might find yourself having to get rid of all extraneous luggage, hide it behind a hedge, finish the ride with 5 minutes to spare, and go back the following day to retrieve it.


Mr Salvatore, you are of course right to remind me of this, but, more importantly, you are also very wrong.  :)
There wasn't anything wrong with the weight of my bike, and it was the the bike that Hans was referring too, it was the kitchen sink I was carrying that was the issue. After I dumped all the gear, I was flying in turbo mode.

Amusing, when I went to retrieve all the luggage I'd dumped in the hedge, I couldn't believe the state of the recumbent - the axis of the BB was about 10degrees off horizontal. The whole thing had twisted over the course of the ride. It got pensioned off after that. Got to love the flexibility of mild steel - natural cushioning!

Ironically, if I ride this year, I'll be on an even heavier recumbent - it's the best bike I've built [2008] and has a nice robust feel to it :-) I had ambitions to make a soot version, but if I spent less time drinking beer and talking about it, It would be finished and ready by now. I've started, but progress is slow. Anyway, can't beat a bit of weight.

Now......back on topic

And in all seriousness, I'm even thinking of trying out a bottle dynamo this weekend on the KV200, mainly because I don't have decent battery lights [I can't really justify the expense right now], and I don't have time to build a new 20" hub for the recumbent. Crazy as that might does sound, if it's acceptable with a new Cyo, then I might even go with that. Apart from performance, what's not like? Weighs nothing, no drag during the day - it's a no-brainer. I will then be [the only one] advocating a return to the use of bottle dynamos.  :)
Garry Broad

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #88 on: March 03, 2015, 05:57:50 pm »

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #89 on: March 03, 2015, 06:00:56 pm »
A battery lighting bargain IMO

Planet X are also doing some dual coloured Eleganza bar tape @ £2.99 a pack---the red and blue could be pleasing to the French PBP bike checkers eye ;D
....after the `tarte de pommes`, and  fortified by a couple of shots of limoncellos,  I flew up the Col de Bavella whilst thunderstorms rolled around the peaks above


Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #91 on: April 06, 2015, 11:25:02 pm »
I've still not decided whether to use my hub dynamo or not yet :-\  I'll try it out on the qualifiers to make sure that the light quality is worth the drag.

Is the drag worth worrying about?  http://mccraw.co.uk/hub-dynamo-friction/

I have now tried out my Roubaix with the hub dynamo system and mudguards on its first audax ride, BlackSheep's recent 300 from near Tewkesbury to Llandovery and back and I can't tell the difference in performance compared to my otherwise identical Roubaix without dynamo or mudguards that I have used on a few 200s.

So "No" I don't think the drag is worth worrying about and I'll hopefully be using my Shimano DH-3N80, B&M Luxos U, B&M Seculite system on the PBP with cheap Smart LED battery lights as back up. I have been using a Garmin Edge 200 since the beginning of 2015 and found that it lasted throughout my 300 with the backlight on the lowest setting. On longer rides I'll probably connect it to the USB port of the Luxos after about 300km so it carries on working, or could just start with it connected to save faffing later. I doubt I'll go fast enough to blow it up.


Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #92 on: April 13, 2015, 01:44:24 pm »
Definitely going a dynamo route with a back up Cree torch 1 x 18650 ----having got well behind on time @ w/e on elenydd very glad I had dynamo for 4 hours riding in dark rather than worrying about spare batteries packs  for a  LED setup
....after the `tarte de pommes`, and  fortified by a couple of shots of limoncellos,  I flew up the Col de Bavella whilst thunderstorms rolled around the peaks above

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #93 on: April 13, 2015, 02:58:21 pm »
Tried out new EDelux II on the Elenydd and it's very, very good. Also used IQ Premium alongside - 5h run time on full power. Like driving with really good car headlights.

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #94 on: June 09, 2015, 12:06:39 pm »
It's worth having at least 2 front and 2 rear lights in case 1 fails. I use a Smart Lunar 25 as a back up light as it has a 14 hour run time on 2 AA batteries (longer on lithiums) and it gives a good enough light for 90% of the PBP night riding. (I have managed the whole thing on much worse lights.) They are currently only £6.99 at http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/smart-lunar-25-lux-front-light-white-id64040.html?gclid=COnRrcuO6sMCFcsBwwod4wYAlA or £9.99 for a black one.

You could have a brighter front light as well and only switch it on for fast descents or use a good quality head torch. I used a cheap Cree light as a main beam last time.

I've still not decided whether to use my hub dynamo or not yet :-\  I'll try it out on the qualifiers to make sure that the light quality is worth the drag.

Thought my Smart35 was only good for town? You have done PBP on less light? That would make it cheap and cheerful. While a dynamo is probably the most sophisticated solution this would help if works.

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #95 on: June 09, 2015, 12:33:27 pm »
I ride with 2*Cateye EL520s.   Don't think you can get them any more but they're perfectly bright enough for PBP, even on normal setting.   They need a battery changeover half way through.

The last time I went over the Roc at night in damp/misty conditions.   The riders coming the other way had such bright lights that I could barely see - had glasses on and a cap pulled down.    I do think a lot of riders go over the top with lighting solutions.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #96 on: June 09, 2015, 01:29:32 pm »
The riders coming the other way had such bright lights that I could barely see

This was noticeable on the WCW a couple of weeks ago - in the final 30km to Chester, as I started to encounter riders coming back the other way.

I'm not sure if the problem is the lights being too bright so much as not being positioned properly - I suspect it would be mostly solved just by pointing them downwards a bit more.

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #97 on: June 09, 2015, 01:43:11 pm »
I'm not sure if the problem is the lights being too bright so much as not being positioned properly - I suspect it would be mostly solved just by pointing them downwards a bit more.

I agree.  Car headlights blind you when they are on full beam and are OK when dipped.  If you consider the light from an Edelux II (scroll down at http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.asp ) you can imagine what that would be like if it was not adjusted to an appropriate angle.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #98 on: June 09, 2015, 01:49:08 pm »
They do need to be pointed down a bit, but it's also a design fault, I'd say. The trouble is there is often too much beam above the bright spot. You want that bright spot pointed fairly high up so as to illuminate the road a decent distance ahead of you and avoid making everything else look dark in contrast, but that leaves too much of the beam going up into oncomers' eyes. Insufficient or bad beam shaping. As well as not pointing the things down a bit.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Lights - Dynamo vs Battery
« Reply #99 on: June 09, 2015, 02:35:02 pm »
My lights are a legacy from doing SR series over several years on events that did lots of small lanes. They are Lumicycle battery powered lights and 2 batteries last me a PBP easily. They are totally over the top for PBP but were necessary for the kind of events I did in the UK. They are still trouble free & going strong so I still use them.

I've just completed my qualification series in France and I never saw a dynamo set up or anything else from the French riders except off the shelf lights. A good 90% of them I talked to about lighting say why bother with something they only ever do every 4 years. Most of them don't bother with long night rides outside PBP years. So my advice is if you are only doing this for the one PBP and won't continue afterwards don't fret about your lights.

Like Rob said up thread. Most set ups are way over the top, even for the UK.