Author Topic: Anyone Tried To Charge . . .  (Read 1418 times)

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Anyone Tried To Charge . . .
« on: February 28, 2015, 10:43:25 pm »
 . . . Their Garmin Wirelessly?

Can you use induction charging on Garmin devices.

If not could some resident genius explain why not?
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Re: Anyone Tried To Charge . . .
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2015, 10:49:36 pm »
Err...'cos they haven't designed them to ?

Much in the same way you can't make a cup of tea with one... :)

There's no particular reason  why they couldn't design em to do that (charge, that is), but I don't know there's a particularly compelling reason to do so.
In any case, it's only Edges that can charge - necessary with a fixed battery. Those that run on AAs can't charge them - even from usb - possibly because there's no guarantee that the cells fitted by the user can support charging.

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Anyone Tried To Charge . . .
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2015, 11:08:07 pm »
It doesn't have the circuitry built in to receive an induction current, and convert that to electricity.
You could plug in some sort of generic induction current receiver to the USB port, then charge it through that.
But I'm not sure how useful that would be.

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Anyone Tried To Charge . . .
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2015, 11:13:11 pm »
Like Henshaw said...

Why *would* it?
Of all the rechargeable devices you have, how many of them can re-charge using some wireless induction system?
 <assumes a small number>
And why might that be?

Is there even a universal standard for such things, and if so, how many manufacturers are signed up to it?

It's also likely to be very inefficient ( like the loosely-coupled transformer that it would likely be ), so the charge rate is likely to be poor.
Why not just plug it in?


Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: Anyone Tried To Charge . . .
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2015, 11:28:35 pm »
Someone asked me the question and I didn't have the answer so I thought I would ask.

Thanks again, guys & gals
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Anyone Tried To Charge . . .
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2015, 07:15:26 am »
Given the wear that occurs at the plug for high-mileage folk who do on-the-go recharging, inductive recharging might be a good thing.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Anyone Tried To Charge . . .
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2015, 07:27:11 am »
The standard is QI, and it makes perfect sense for an IPx7 device to support it to avoid the inevitable wear that comes from using the USB port. The latest generation of Garmin can communicate fully wirelessly, so it is an obvious next step. Apart from the circuitry, the receptor is incredibly simple and can simply be designed into a case.

As a key issue I have with my Oregon 450 is the USB port, I would welcome its introduction, and it would likely push me into an upgrade if they released it.

(Full declaration: we now have 2 x Nexus devices that charge happily on USB, but I seem to have this lure towards buying a QI charger, in the hope that somehow the electrons will be better quality  ;) )

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Anyone Tried To Charge . . .
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2015, 07:48:24 am »
It would make it easier to keep devices waterproof.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Anyone Tried To Charge . . .
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2015, 12:56:27 pm »
Yes, the use cases where inductive charging is beneficial are waterproofing, very frequent connect/disconnect cycles, and perhaps where it might otherwise be forgotten to put it on charge.  The latter two are basically alternatives to some sort of charging dock.

TBH, the only thing I have that would really benefit from inductive charging is my wireless mouse.

While it might be convenient for a waterproof GPS unit, I'm not sure it would be appropriate for on-the-bike charging, due to the lower efficiency.

I don't really worry about USB port wear - even with mini-USB ports (rated for far fewer mating cycles than micro-USB) the port doesn't seem to be the weak point on a typical Garmin.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Anyone Tried To Charge . . .
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2015, 01:19:15 pm »
I think teethgrinder might provide the ultimate test this year.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Anyone Tried To Charge . . .
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2015, 07:23:02 pm »

I don't really worry about USB port wear - even with mini-USB ports (rated for far fewer mating cycles than micro-USB) the port doesn't seem to be the weak point on a typical Garmin.

...whereas I own an Edge 205 and an Oregon 450, both suffer from stuffed up USB, to use the technical term

Re: Anyone Tried To Charge . . .
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2015, 08:53:01 am »
Yes, the use cases where inductive charging is beneficial are waterproofing, very frequent connect/disconnect cycles, and perhaps where it might otherwise be forgotten to put it on charge.  The latter two are basically alternatives to some sort of charging dock.

TBH, the only thing I have that would really benefit from inductive charging is my wireless mouse.

While it might be convenient for a waterproof GPS unit, I'm not sure it would be appropriate for on-the-bike charging, due to the lower efficiency.

I don't really worry about USB port wear - even with mini-USB ports (rated for far fewer mating cycles than micro-USB) the port doesn't seem to be the weak point on a typical Garmin.

Or your toothbrush.

For me, its my Philishave.
For Beardo-wierdos, it wouldn't.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Anyone Tried To Charge . . .
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2015, 12:42:44 pm »
The toothbrush already has inductive charging.  What it would benefit from is a shaver socket.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Anyone Tried To Charge . . .
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2015, 08:58:11 pm »
Mini and micro usb seem to be rated for something of the order of 5k and 10k respectively  - not surprising since the latter is in phones, and it looks like the most stressed part in micro has moved to the cable:
http://gct.co/usb-connectors/
(not the most definitive of sources, but I can't be arsed to locate it in the usb specs..and particularly since I've written this once already and lost it  ::-) )

Oregon/Etrex/Colorado are IPX7, so you can supposedly drop 'em in a metre of water without any issue:
http://www.garmin.com/en-US/legal/waterrating

TBH I'd be more concerned with permanently powering a device externally with the usb cable being jiggled around  - in rain or otherwise. Is that why yours are stuffed, Ham ?

For on-bike charging, QI looks like it can provide max 5W in low power, at mebbe 50-70% efficiency. Assuming you can run an Etrex on (2500mAh?) for 24hrs - 104mA for an hour (which sounds the right kinda ballpark) that's about 1/2W @ 5V - certainly if you had an on-bike charging cradle you wouldn't notice a watt or two if you effectively hung it off a dynamo. Tho' I daresay some weight weenies would then complain about the size of the cradle/charging puck - and you'd need to make that waterproof too, including any connector if there was an extension power cable to it..a different can of worms.

It'd be interesting to know how many users would actually *need* that support - I suspect most are probably more than happy swapping AAs or plugging in to charge, so it'd be extra engineering/cost for what might be a relatively small proportion of customers.
(Note that 'most' above does not necessarily include the Audax crowd..)

Re: Anyone Tried To Charge . . .
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2015, 11:00:13 pm »

TBH I'd be more concerned with permanently powering a device externally with the usb cable being jiggled around  - in rain or otherwise. Is that why yours are stuffed, Ham ?


Hard to be definitive but I think it is a combination of Mini USB and the impact of water ingress and corrosion, the rubber covers may be good enough for x7 dunking, but use on a bike in a downpour and they get wet.

Symptoms? Odd stuff - only get to work with some cables, transfers fail etc etc

Re: Anyone Tried To Charge . . .
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2015, 11:11:05 pm »
I think the most practical solution would be a clip on base, with an integrated cache battery, giving both weather protection and reducing the number of usb mating cycles. A job for a 3d printer.
As I don't have a fancy garmin myself a bit academic.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Anyone Tried To Charge . . .
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2015, 11:16:05 pm »
I think the most practical solution would be a clip on base, with an integrated cache battery, giving both weather protection and reducing the number of usb mating cycles. A job for a 3d printer.
As I don't have a fancy garmin myself a bit academic.

Good idea.  Especially if the cache battery was a standard form-factor, so you could have multiple spares for extended use.  The base could completely enclose the electrical connections and form a watertight seal, so nothing has to be exposed to water except when swapping batteries, and incorporate the fitting that slots into the handlebar mount so you can quickly remove the whole unit from the bike without disconnecting the power.

 ;)

To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...