Author Topic: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?  (Read 3252 times)

321up

  • 59° N
Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« on: June 20, 2015, 08:48:49 am »
Even on the tandem we need a GPS each for DIY by GPS and it's time for us to buy a better 2nd GPS with a barometric altimeter.  We also need another cadence sensor (we are currently using a Garmin GSC 10 Speed/Cadence Sensor which only reports cadence with the etrex30).  I've recently been having reliability problems with cycle computers so I'm planning to mount both GPS's on the handlebars and use one for navigation and the other for stats.  One limitation of the Etrex30 is that it has buttons on the side so extra space is required when mounting next to other devices on the handlebars (I want to mount both gps's and a IXON IQ front light on the handlebars).

GPSMAP 64s / 64st ?
I'm tempted by a GPSMAP 64s or GPSMAP 64st as they take AA batteries and will charge them from USB power.  Compared to the Etrex30 are there any limitations, missing features or advantages?

Edge 810 / 1000 ?
The main reason I'm considering an Edge series as I think they support a greater range of cadence sensors.  Is the usb connection waterproof (i.e. can they be charged whilst riding in the rain)?  Can the track data be copied by USB mass storage from an Edge series device?  Compared to the Etrex30 are there any limitations, missing features or advantages?

Etrex30x ?
Has anyone tried the new model yet?  Aside from the screen resolution has anything else changed?  Is the screen better in practice?  Compared to the Etrex30 are there any limitations, missing features or advantages?

Something else ?

Thanks.

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2015, 08:57:32 am »
Why do you get them both? Doesn't C get one? It would remove all your bar space issues.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

321up

  • 59° N
Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2015, 08:59:31 am »
Why do you get them both? Doesn't C get one? It would remove all your bar space issues.

We did discuss it in the past and the option of her having a cycle computer on the back but for various reasons she concluded that it would not be useful to her.  Also it would get a less good gps signal which might affect the altitude data for AAA claims (even GPS's with barometric altimeters use the gps signal for calibration).

Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2015, 01:56:24 pm »
If you get a new one why not bin the old one? Don't see the point of having two. One could do stats and navigation.
It is what it is. It's not what it's not, so it must be what it is.

TimC

  • Bike pilot
Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2015, 02:49:30 pm »
I don't really understand why you need 2 GPSs to be able to see stats and navigate. The Edge series machines have a number of pages (mostly customisable) which can be scrolled to give an astonishing amount of information, and navigation instructions will override any stats page when necessary. However, if you want 2, you want 2!

The Edge 810/1000 don't have waterproof USB connections, though I'm sure lots of people will rock up to say they've never had a problem. Both the 810 and 1000 connect to your phone via Bluetooth, so ride stats can be uploaded to Garmin Connect (and, via that, Strava, MapMyThingy, RWGPS, WHY) as and when you wish without the involvement of a computer. AFAIK, they can't connect to a USB drive for the purpose of downloading data. However, they function as USB mass storage devices when connected to a computer so the file system can be fully accessed if you really want to.

Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2015, 03:02:37 pm »
I don't really understand why you need 2 GPSs to be able to see stats and navigate. The Edge series machines have a number of pages (mostly customisable) which can be scrolled to give an astonishing amount of information, and navigation instructions will override any stats page when necessary. However, if you want 2, you want 2!

They need two because they ride DIY Audax events on a tandem. We need two too  :D.

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2015, 03:25:17 pm »
They need two because they ride DIY Audax events on a tandem. We need two too  :D.
Why can't you both use the same GPS track, from a single GPS? Is there really a rule saying they have to be unique tracks?

Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2015, 03:37:16 pm »
They need two because they ride DIY Audax events on a tandem. We need two too  :D.
Why can't you both use the same GPS track, from a single GPS? Is there really a rule saying they have to be unique tracks?

It's the rider, not the bike, that has to prove passage.

On calendar events, we have to get two sets of receipts too, unless we specifically request Tandem Dispensation from the organiser who has seen that we're on a tandem.

TimC

  • Bike pilot
Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2015, 03:44:59 pm »
I don't really understand why you need 2 GPSs to be able to see stats and navigate. The Edge series machines have a number of pages (mostly customisable) which can be scrolled to give an astonishing amount of information, and navigation instructions will override any stats page when necessary. However, if you want 2, you want 2!

They need two because they ride DIY Audax events on a tandem. We need two too  :D.
Ah, of course.  Thanks Chris.

321up

  • 59° N
Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2015, 05:38:05 pm »
They need two because they ride DIY Audax events on a tandem. We need two too  :D.
Why can't you both use the same GPS track, from a single GPS? Is there really a rule saying they have to be unique tracks?

The rule is probably to prevent someone carrying a load of GPS devices for his/her mates whilst they sit in the pub by checking that the speed/position/time profiles are different for each rider but this assumes that they are on different bikes.  Where tandems are concerned it's completely pointless and an unnecessary expense that we could do without, but the rules are the rules.   ::-)  An alternative approach would be to say the tracks are the identical from the same device because we were on a tandem, here is a photo of us with the tandem taken at some landmark on the DIY route, but it's probably easier for the validator to treat everyone the same irrespective wether they are on a tandem or not.

contango

  • NB have not grown beard since photo was taken
  • The Fat And The Furious
Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2015, 06:02:08 pm »
I don't really understand why you need 2 GPSs to be able to see stats and navigate. The Edge series machines have a number of pages (mostly customisable) which can be scrolled to give an astonishing amount of information, and navigation instructions will override any stats page when necessary. However, if you want 2, you want 2!

They need two because they ride DIY Audax events on a tandem. We need two too  :D.

If the rider on the back doesn't need to actually see the computer, put it in a jersey pocket or mount it on some other bar? As long as it's switched on and not inside a metal box (so it gets a GPS signal) it can be anywhere on the bike, no?
Always carry a small flask of whisky in case of snakebite. And, furthermore, always carry a small snake.

Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2015, 06:08:22 pm »
I don't really understand why you need 2 GPSs to be able to see stats and navigate. The Edge series machines have a number of pages (mostly customisable) which can be scrolled to give an astonishing amount of information, and navigation instructions will override any stats page when necessary. However, if you want 2, you want 2!

They need two because they ride DIY Audax events on a tandem. We need two too  :D.

If the rider on the back doesn't need to actually see the computer, put it in a jersey pocket or mount it on some other bar? As long as it's switched on and not inside a metal box (so it gets a GPS signal) it can be anywhere on the bike, no?

Oh certainly, I wasn't suggesting C had to have possession of the device, only that each rider needs to be able to prove their passage, so as there are two riders, there should be two PoPs.

As I say, it's less vigourously enforced for calendar events where there are others around (including the organiser, quite probably) to corroborate one's claim to be on a tandem.

321up

  • 59° N
Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2015, 06:59:35 pm »

Oh certainly, I wasn't suggesting C had to have possession of the device, only that each rider needs to be able to prove their passage, so as there are two riders, there should be two PoPs.

As I say, it's less vigourously enforced for calendar events where there are others around (including the organiser, quite probably) to corroborate one's claim to be on a tandem.

Carrying two gps devices doesn't prove anything more than one gps device would on a tandem.  All you are proving is the passage of the 2nd gps which is nothing to do with the riders.  Just as receipts only prove that a purchase was made at a location not who was making the purchase (i.e. one person can obtain muitiple receipts).  I accept that tandems are a niche and I don't want to make the validators extra work so now I've made those points I'll get on with choosing a 2nd GPS...

Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2015, 07:44:41 pm »
They need two because they ride DIY Audax events on a tandem. We need two too  :D.
Why can't you both use the same GPS track, from a single GPS? Is there really a rule saying they have to be unique tracks?

It's the rider, not the bike, that has to prove passage.

On calendar events, we have to get two sets of receipts too, unless we specifically request Tandem Dispensation from the organiser who has seen that we're on a tandem.

I've always thought it a bit cheeky expecting two brevet cards  ;)
It is what it is. It's not what it's not, so it must be what it is.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2015, 08:36:10 pm »
If you just want a second GPS track, why not get something cheap and tiny like an Edge 200?  If you want something that will actually navigate, the Edge Touring looks pretty good.

contango

  • NB have not grown beard since photo was taken
  • The Fat And The Furious
Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2015, 09:10:25 pm »
I don't really understand why you need 2 GPSs to be able to see stats and navigate. The Edge series machines have a number of pages (mostly customisable) which can be scrolled to give an astonishing amount of information, and navigation instructions will override any stats page when necessary. However, if you want 2, you want 2!

They need two because they ride DIY Audax events on a tandem. We need two too  :D.

If the rider on the back doesn't need to actually see the computer, put it in a jersey pocket or mount it on some other bar? As long as it's switched on and not inside a metal box (so it gets a GPS signal) it can be anywhere on the bike, no?

Oh certainly, I wasn't suggesting C had to have possession of the device, only that each rider needs to be able to prove their passage, so as there are two riders, there should be two PoPs.

As I say, it's less vigourously enforced for calendar events where there are others around (including the organiser, quite probably) to corroborate one's claim to be on a tandem.

Sure, I should have quoted one of the other posts as well. Between your comment that all you need is the proof of passage, and the earlier (OP's?) comment about a shortage of handlebar space, it just seemed a little odd to be mounting two GPS units to the handlebars when you only need the functionality of one. The other could be anywhere, or you could use a smartphone. Or I suppose you could lobby for a change in the rules - when you can create a GPX file using all sorts of software these days there's enough reliance on basic honesty that I'm sure the system can cope with a declaration that two riders were on a tandem. Those inclined to cheat when logging DIY brevets already have 101 ways to cheat, so it's not like making a special case for tandem riders is going to create a situation that isn't already there.
Always carry a small flask of whisky in case of snakebite. And, furthermore, always carry a small snake.

TimC

  • Bike pilot
Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2015, 03:23:30 am »
If you just want a second GPS track, why not get something cheap and tiny like an Edge 200?  If you want something that will actually navigate, the Edge Touring looks pretty good.

A Garmin Vivoactive (£175 from Wiggle) will produce all the data needed and sits on one rider's wrist, taking no handlebar real estate whatsoever.

321up

  • 59° N
Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2015, 07:09:51 am »
If we are spending £££ we want something at least equivalent to the Etrex30 or better.  We want it to be capable of navigation, compatible with cadence sensors and have a barometric altimeter.

vorsprung

  • Opposites Attract
    • Audaxing
Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2015, 08:06:18 am »
I don't really understand why you need 2 GPSs to be able to see stats and navigate. The Edge series machines have a number of pages (mostly customisable) which can be scrolled to give an astonishing amount of information, and navigation instructions will override any stats page when necessary. However, if you want 2, you want 2!

They need two because they ride DIY Audax events on a tandem. We need two too  :D.

I don't see anything about this in official regs -which are pretty vague about DIYs and the use of GPS validation
You should raise this on the AUK forum
Audaxing Blog follow @vorsprungbike on

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2015, 09:09:31 am »
If we are spending £££ we want something at least equivalent to the Etrex30 or better.  We want it to be capable of navigation, compatible with cadence sensors and have a barometric altimeter.
Given you already have all this on the device that sits on your bars and already do DIY by GPS I would surmise that the reason you're not getting any actual answers to your question is that no one can see why you need another.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2015, 09:16:22 am »
Honestly, this is the weirdest, daftest, and most unnecessarily expensive interpretation of the 'law of audax'

I would definitely be raising the issue with the powers that be. Why waste money on another device (unless you see it worthwhile for backup in case of unit failure).

Audax is such a quirky sport, partly because of the stickling regulations!
Does not play well with others

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2015, 10:10:04 am »
That's just it though rabbit, he's already compliant with 'the laws of audax'.
We have two devices because we both use them. (I don't have a barometric altimeter but the track produced is sufficient to gain AAA on the occasions the rides accrue them). We do rides separately as well as together, and I do the navigation on the tandem, and the signal from the rear bars is more than adequate for navigation and anything else.
They already have sufficient tech to submit two tracks. Saying he needs to upgrade for compliance is a red herring. There's nothing wrong in wanting MOAR TECH but justifying it because you 'need' it is just inaccurate.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

321up

  • 59° N
Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2015, 10:45:49 am »
We have recently had reliability problems with the device we use for our 2nd GPS track.  It was fine whilst it was working reliably but now we can't trust it.  If the 2nd device is out of sight in a bag/pocket we won't notice if it stops working.  Even the Etrex30 will occasionally freeze or power off but it's not been a problem so far because I can see when it happens and sort it out (thus far we have only lost very short sections of track when the etrex30 has had a glitch).

Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2015, 12:19:18 pm »
I believe the trick to ensuring a waterproof USB connection is either putting the device in a brevet card poly bag or the cling film option during prolonged downpours.  The poly bag option has been used extensively and the cling film option doubles a cheap screensaver.  I don't think Garmin (or others) expected people to go out in the wet for extended periods requiring USB connections to be used.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Buy 2nd Etrex30 or something different?
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2015, 04:13:33 pm »
Have you actually asked the person who validates your rides and been explicitly told that you need to run two GPS devices, or is this just your interpretation of the rules?  If it's the latter, go and do the former before you splash out.