Author Topic: Base training  (Read 87597 times)

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #1250 on: January 08, 2019, 09:38:21 pm »
my dad is of very similar build as you, he started his structured training from 192w and reached 240w in about year and a half, on and off. as you have already been there i reckon it's possible to reach (and exceed) your previous fitness in 6-7 months, i.e. one training programme. consistency will play the biggest role in that.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1251 on: January 08, 2019, 09:45:31 pm »
That's encouraging!  Thanks

Re: Base training
« Reply #1252 on: January 08, 2019, 11:12:40 pm »
I wonder how much of my lost power I can get back, and how quickly I might be able to do it.

If you can stick to a good, progressive plan (ie. follow TrainerRoad Base1->Base2->Build cycles, regularly retesting), rest and recover well, and remain largely injury and illness free, no reason you can't make excellent progress: match or exceed your previous w/kg within 18 months, and get much of the way there in 9 months. Or your money back  ;)

If that was your first TR ramp test, it might understate your FTP a touch due to your unfamiliarity with the protocol, ie. the requirement to go so deep / desperately hang on in the last couple of minutes, which IME improved slightly with a bit of practice.

Good luck!

Re: Base training
« Reply #1253 on: January 09, 2019, 10:01:52 am »
Thanks.  There definitely were issues with the test (trainer resistance was a bit low so, when I bailed out, my cadence was 110, with increasing cadence being as much a challenge as increasing power). 

But I don't want to allow myself an easy break on account of that as I didn't do any testing when I was fitter in 2014 and thereabouts.  The 230, which I took as my FTP, was just what I did on the only 25 I did that year (which got me 57:25  :)).  If I had done a proper test my FTP may well have been higher (and if I had trained it might have been higher still!).

Re: Base training
« Reply #1254 on: January 10, 2019, 09:29:09 am »
The Ramp Test really stresses how well your training setup works. If you have any sort of issue then you're probably underestimating it. Even when you're shifting gears to help drive the power up, you can find that you get a hole where shifting up is too big a jump, but you're so close to the ragged edge that you can't spin any better in the lower gear.
I'm wondering if I should adjust my FTP down a bit, or do another test. Tuesday I survived a 30 minute interval workout. Today my back tightened up when I started the second of the 12 minute over-under interval. I adjusted the saddle a bit forward and then tried again, and I got one over-under in, before it tightened up again:
https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/47608410-carpathian-peak-1

I'll probably try the scheduled 90 minute ride (long threshold intervals) this weekend and see how that goes - if I fail that I might try a new Ramp test.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1255 on: January 10, 2019, 09:55:47 am »
I am allowed back on the road again.   I've worked my way up to 12hrs a week of turbo work, but I'll start to build my commutes back in and add a bit of weekend riding.   I rode in this morning and can now put weight on my hand again so we're going on the right direction.   I'm not sure it would handle a few hours of riding, though.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1256 on: January 10, 2019, 10:59:28 am »
That's good news.  :thumbsup:
Keep taking it steady and build up gradually.  If you can manage 12 hours a week on the turbo you clearly have the requisite patience!

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Base training
« Reply #1257 on: January 10, 2019, 03:33:58 pm »
My FTP is higher than Frank's!

Flattering as that is, I very much doubt it. Re-set the trainer and try again in a week.

Even if it's true, I have many many many more kg for those W to shift :(

I'm working like a *somethin* on the turbo at the moment. Not riding to work is doing wonders for my motivation.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #1258 on: January 10, 2019, 04:01:40 pm »
180 doesn't sound that unlikely for someone coming back after a fairly long break.

I did ramp test in early 2015, with a VO2max and respiratory quotient and my FTP was in 200-220 range; I'd had several months off after the Scottish 1300k and mostly had been doing weights with limited cardio.

By the time PBP came around it was in the 240-260 range (the ramp was 20W steps) and in 2016 I got 260-280 on the same test.

Couple of years off and I could have easily been well under 200W.

I believe Nate Pearson (co-founder of TrainerRoad) has been as low as 180W after a long break and is currently >300W.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1259 on: January 10, 2019, 04:07:35 pm »
I did a test in September 2016 and was on 171. By July 2017 I was at 261. There's a bit of grade inflation cause by changing measuring device, but it's not too far off. So it's entirely possible to pick up a significant boost in FTP by plugging away at the plan, even on low volume, so long as you maintain consistency (this was TR, though I'm sure others would be similar). I understand it is easier to return to a previous level than it is to break new ground as well.

(Sadly I damaged my foot in July, dropped down to 235 after a month of no activity and I'm not much above that now.)

Re: Base training
« Reply #1260 on: January 13, 2019, 12:46:28 pm »
I am allowed back on the road again.   I've worked my way up to 12hrs a week of turbo work, but I'll start to build my commutes back in and add a bit of weekend riding.   I rode in this morning and can now put weight on my hand again so we're going on the right direction.   I'm not sure it would handle a few hours of riding, though.

2hr road ride yesterday resulted in quite a sore wrist.  Clearly some way to go.  I’ll need to mix and match turbo and road work for a while.

10hrs on the turbo this week but 6hrs on the road.   I sense the road miles weren’t very helpful fitness wise even if they were good for the soul.   

Re: Base training
« Reply #1261 on: January 13, 2019, 05:15:18 pm »
Sounds like you're making progress. :)

I did Mount Goode today - loads of threshold work.
It felt hard mentally, but not too bad physically. Turned fan on before first interval. Took a couple of 20s backpedal breaks in the second and third intervals, mainly for motivation - it gave me manageable targets to aim for rather than knowing I had 15 minutes to go!
Right hip tightened slightly with 2 minutes to go, but otherwise OK...
https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/47863797-mount-goode

I now understand why people do backpedal breaks when using the erg trainer. It's so hard to stretch or stand while doing the scheduled ride.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #1262 on: January 13, 2019, 06:31:12 pm »
22 hours on the road (Seiler zone 1) and 7x1 hour interval sessions (4x10’ ) so far this month. Retirement is great!😁

Re: Base training
« Reply #1263 on: January 13, 2019, 06:37:50 pm »
22 hours on the road (Seiler zone 1) and 7x1 hour interval sessions (4x10’ ) so far this month. Retirement is great!😁

I turn 46 in a couple of weeks. There is some way to go.

I reckon work stops me from overcooking it. That’s my excuse anyway.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1264 on: January 15, 2019, 09:05:55 am »
More struggles with PowerMatch this morning.

The structure of the workout is 1 minute at 120% power, 30s off, repeat 7 times. Break, repeat, break, repeat, done.
https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/48045233-bashful-1

I felt OK on first set - was hard but doable. Second interval of second set, the resistance just died off. I don't know if it was the power meter, the trainer, or TR on my phone, but it was like I finished the interval. Resistance didn't pick up for the third one, so I stopped and recalibrated the trainer, and suddenly I was having to do 400W instead of 300W! I then recalibrated my power meter, which jumped from 18 to 23, but made no difference. I then stopped the ride, turned off bluetooth, turned off TR, and booted everything back up. I rode 2 intervals at 400W, and then changed the intensity to 85% so that the resistance came down and I could do 400W. I turned it back up again for the last set, and resistance seemed a bit low, so I wasn't able to get 300W unless I span at >110 rpm. I was short on time by that point, so I skipped ahead to the cool down.

I can see the advantages of erg mode, in forcing you to do the workout as specified, and not clunking up and down the cassette, but it's really frustrating when this sort of thing happens.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #1265 on: January 15, 2019, 10:46:54 am »
More struggles with PowerMatch this morning.

The structure of the workout is 1 minute at 120% power, 30s off, repeat 7 times. Break, repeat, break, repeat, done.
https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/48045233-bashful-1

I felt OK on first set - was hard but doable. Second interval of second set, the resistance just died off. I don't know if it was the power meter, the trainer, or TR on my phone, but it was like I finished the interval. Resistance didn't pick up for the third one, so I stopped and recalibrated the trainer, and suddenly I was having to do 400W instead of 300W! I then recalibrated my power meter, which jumped from 18 to 23, but made no difference. I then stopped the ride, turned off bluetooth, turned off TR, and booted everything back up. I rode 2 intervals at 400W, and then changed the intensity to 85% so that the resistance came down and I could do 400W. I turned it back up again for the last set, and resistance seemed a bit low, so I wasn't able to get 300W unless I span at >110 rpm. I was short on time by that point, so I skipped ahead to the cool down.

I can see the advantages of erg mode, in forcing you to do the workout as specified, and not clunking up and down the cassette, but it's really frustrating when this sort of thing happens.

Which trainer are you using now?

I'm using a Neo and don't use power match at the moment. It seems fine except I've had some bluetooth drop-outs where everything stops working. I've reset a few things and it seems to be ok now.

Power match adds a extra feedback loop and source of issues since both the trainer and the power meter needs a stable connection and to be working correctly. I think the Neo is reliable enough that I don't need it. Sadly my old Kickr did need it, it was over-reading by enough to make a real difference. I'm now competing with numbers from 2016 that I'll probably never match.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1266 on: January 15, 2019, 01:24:05 pm »
I'm using a Tacx Bushido Smart. It's still wheel-on, and I have power pedals, so it makes more sense to use them as the measuring device.
I might get myself an Ant+ dongle for my laptop and see if hooking up to that makes any difference (compared to bluetooth and phone). That will also force me to build a stand for the laptop (I have the wood and a plan), and mean I can train without staring at my stem the whole time!
When it all works as it should it's good, and I can see how it's better than the old dumb trainer and changing gear. The old way has fewer failure modes though!

Re: Base training
« Reply #1267 on: January 15, 2019, 04:26:59 pm »
I'm having erratic power levels in erg mode too (Tacx Vortex + Trainerroad).  Takes maybe a minute to adjust to new interval power levels, sometimes goes really high, other times really low. 

I'm going to try out a range of things before I go to Tacx support.
- adjust the TR power smoothing in settings to a longer period
- use it with power match turned off - ie using the Tacx power not my PM
- do a workout on the Tacx app to see if it is Trainerroad or Tacx problem
- use Bluetooth connection rather than ant+.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #1268 on: January 15, 2019, 08:53:25 pm »
Ramp test tonight. 239W. Slowly edging up.

Probably a little fatigued from last night’s rowing outing. It’s hard to fit it in after a rest day just now. So I reckon it would have been 240+ if fresher.

At least it’s improving.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #1269 on: January 16, 2019, 03:13:32 pm »
i did a ramp test this morning and was surprised in a positive way - i reckon i'm fittest i've ever been at 4.7w/kg

looking forward to the "new and improved" workouts ahead (not!)

Re: Base training
« Reply #1270 on: January 16, 2019, 03:46:17 pm »
i did a ramp test this morning and was surprised in a positive way - i reckon i'm fittest i've ever been at 4.7w/kg

looking forward to the "new and improved" workouts ahead (not!)
That's a serious engine. Congrats! :thumbsup:

Re: Base training
« Reply #1271 on: January 16, 2019, 09:48:49 pm »
i reckon i'm fittest i've ever been at 4.7w/kg

Nice - I look forward to never ever joining you on a hilly ride ;D

Re: Base training
« Reply #1272 on: January 16, 2019, 10:08:00 pm »
i reckon i'm fittest i've ever been at 4.7w/kg

Nice - I look forward to never ever joining you on a hilly ride ;D

To be fair, zigzag would have to be very very light for even a flat ride to make sense;)

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #1273 on: January 17, 2019, 07:14:34 am »
Yesterday was a rest day so I spent two hours analysing all the different interval sessions used in the last 12 months to confirm which elicit the most time at ≥90%HRmax (for Seiler zone3 purposes). Just another 2 weeks on the current block then three weeks with a more varied set of workouts based on my findings.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #1274 on: January 17, 2019, 09:31:04 am »
i reckon i'm fittest i've ever been at 4.7w/kg

Nice - I look forward to never ever joining you on a hilly ride ;D

To be fair, zigzag would have to be very very light for even a flat ride to make sense;)

it's all relative, sometimes i ride with faster guys and get dropped..

no matter how strong you are there's always someone to put you in your place :)