Author Topic: Base training  (Read 121584 times)

Re: Base training
« Reply #1775 on: January 15, 2020, 06:13:57 pm »
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Base training
« Reply #1776 on: January 15, 2020, 06:20:16 pm »
Did Carter on the upright today.  So much easier than on the recumbent. I don't think my HR was much lower, it was just loads easier and I could have gone on for ages, whereas on the Trike I just run out of legs after about half hour (or earlier).
I'm gonna start SSB on Monday - I might use the trike for filler workouts if I decide I need more volume. I doubt I will though - I'm also doing some gym work as instructed by my physio.

Were your workouts based on a FTP from your road bike or recumbent? My recumbent FTP was quite a bit lower than my road bike FTP when I got started on this seasons turbo work.  But I just lowered the FTP to that derived from testing on the recumbent, and got on with it. I’ve also been doing squats and strength work off the bike to strengthen the glutes etc.  My recumbent FTP caught up with my road bike FTP by start of this month. So depends which bike you want to develop power on. My next test is early Feb where I’ll see if the recumbent FTP has climbed any further.

Like you I was leg limited on the recumbent to start with.
If you don’t make time for exercise now, sooner or later you’ll need to make time for ill health.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1777 on: January 15, 2020, 07:39:34 pm »
Did Carter on the upright today.  So much easier than on the recumbent. I don't think my HR was much lower, it was just loads easier and I could have gone on for ages, whereas on the Trike I just run out of legs after about half hour (or earlier).
I'm gonna start SSB on Monday - I might use the trike for filler workouts if I decide I need more volume. I doubt I will though - I'm also doing some gym work as instructed by my physio.

Were your workouts based on a FTP from your road bike or recumbent? My recumbent FTP was quite a bit lower than my road bike FTP when I got started on this seasons turbo work.  But I just lowered the FTP to that derived from testing on the recumbent, and got on with it. I’ve also been doing squats and strength work off the bike to strengthen the glutes etc.  My recumbent FTP caught up with my road bike FTP by start of this month. So depends which bike you want to develop power on. My next test is early Feb where I’ll see if the recumbent FTP has climbed any further.

Like you I was leg limited on the recumbent to start with.
The FTP was set to the road bike one, but I wasn't on a smart trainer, so I could just ride at whatever power I chose. I can't do a ramp test on the recumbent as the rollers don't offer enough resistance - I'm in top gear at 90rpm and 200W. Carter/Volunteer are about 60% of FTP, so it's not too bad using the wrong FTP for those workouts.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1778 on: January 22, 2020, 10:10:00 pm »
I've upgraded the Tacx to a direct drive Elite Suito, and I've even climbed on it now.

Oh my my. Unfit? Moi? Turned my FTP down to 220 (from 275) and I could still only do less than half an hour :(

Maybe I'll try 200.

The Suito is a damn fine piece of kit, though.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1779 on: January 22, 2020, 10:41:24 pm »
I've upgraded the Tacx to a direct drive Elite Suito, and I've even climbed on it now.

Oh my my. Unfit? Moi? Turned my FTP down to 220 (from 275) and I could still only do less than half an hour :(

Maybe I'll try 200.

The Suito is a damn fine piece of kit, though.

No shame in adjusting your FTP down to match reality. After all it’s just a base number so your workouts are appropriate to your level of fitness / power output. Fitness never stands still.
If you don’t make time for exercise now, sooner or later you’ll need to make time for ill health.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1780 on: January 23, 2020, 08:35:07 pm »
I've upgraded the Tacx to a direct drive Elite Suito, and I've even climbed on it now.

Oh my my. Unfit? Moi? Turned my FTP down to 220 (from 275) and I could still only do less than half an hour :(

Maybe I'll try 200.

The Suito is a damn fine piece of kit, though.

If it's been a while - a quick ramp test should give the the right ballpark figure.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1781 on: February 02, 2020, 05:46:17 pm »
Couple of sessions this week where everything felt good especially the legs. Two more sessions then rest and test week. Hopefully the feeling good is indicating improved fitness. Will find out in just over a week.
If you don’t make time for exercise now, sooner or later you’ll need to make time for ill health.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1782 on: February 02, 2020, 08:17:14 pm »
I got a rotten cold mid January. After a week and a bit off, I went to the gym and tweaked my back (doing the lifting that the physio set me to try to help my hip).  I deleted my TR plan without even starting it for the second time this year :'(

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #1783 on: February 02, 2020, 08:44:54 pm »
Two rotten colds this year so far. Virtually no training. Bah.

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Base training
« Reply #1784 on: February 02, 2020, 10:00:12 pm »
Another zwift race, another ftp boost. Nice.

(current calculation - 7 more races to take me to 250W then lose 45kg and turn Pro. IT COULD HAPPEN)
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

Re: Base training
« Reply #1785 on: February 03, 2020, 06:06:06 pm »
Another good interval session today. Heart rate definitely indicating I’m finding it easier. Last session (of this period) tomorrow which is a lower intensity steady state session. I’ll be disappointed if the testing doesn’t reveal an increased FTP...
If you don’t make time for exercise now, sooner or later you’ll need to make time for ill health.

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: Base training
« Reply #1786 on: February 04, 2020, 03:53:02 pm »
Trainer Road ramp test yesterday; FTP up by 12W compared to 5 weeks ago, but still 16W down compared to one year ago. A rather unimpressive 1400 TSS in the new year (in previous years it was ~ 1800 by now), following 3 months of basically no cycling so I'm happy with the upward trend ;)

Still, work to be done for WAWAW...

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1787 on: February 04, 2020, 05:23:51 pm »
Did 7 reps of Edge hill on Sunday (1 km at 10.5%), all at VAM > 1000. My FTP equivalent VAM is around 900.

Life is good

Re: Base training
« Reply #1788 on: February 04, 2020, 05:38:22 pm »
Still, work to be done for WAWAW...

What is the extra W for that you’ve added to the end?

If it’s any consolation I did a lot less fitness work ahead of WAWA 16.  It was pre structured training and mostly consisted of me doing hill repeats on a 17% hill plus some Welsh audaxes.

Be interesting to see how it compares four years on.
If you don’t make time for exercise now, sooner or later you’ll need to make time for ill health.

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1789 on: February 04, 2020, 05:54:57 pm »
I've upgraded the Tacx to a direct drive Elite Suito, and I've even climbed on it now.

Oh my my. Unfit? Moi? Turned my FTP down to 220 (from 275) and I could still only do less than half an hour :(

Maybe I'll try 200.

The Suito is a damn fine piece of kit, though.

You don't lose 50 Watt overnight... most likely the first number was largely incorrect

Zed43

  • prefers UK hills over Dutch mountains
Re: Base training
« Reply #1790 on: February 04, 2020, 06:12:36 pm »
After 2020-02-02 my brain is still in palindrome mode :)

I once "gained" 40W FTP in two days by using 44/14t gearing instead of 30/21t. This was on a Tacx Genius (not direct drive). After that experience I have been frugal in always riding on the trainer using the same gearing.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1791 on: February 04, 2020, 06:27:19 pm »
I've upgraded the Tacx to a direct drive Elite Suito, and I've even climbed on it now.

Oh my my. Unfit? Moi? Turned my FTP down to 220 (from 275) and I could still only do less than half an hour :(

Maybe I'll try 200.

The Suito is a damn fine piece of kit, though.

You don't lose 50 Watt overnight... most likely the first number was largely incorrect

If the upgrade was from a wheel on to a wheel off trainer, that's likely to be the difference. Wheel off trainers are much more accurate.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1792 on: February 04, 2020, 06:37:24 pm »
I've upgraded the Tacx to a direct drive Elite Suito, and I've even climbed on it now.

Oh my my. Unfit? Moi? Turned my FTP down to 220 (from 275) and I could still only do less than half an hour :(

Maybe I'll try 200.

The Suito is a damn fine piece of kit, though.

You don't lose 50 Watt overnight... most likely the first number was largely incorrect

We don’t know when the 275 figure dates from.  It could be a figure from 6 or more months ago.
If you don’t make time for exercise now, sooner or later you’ll need to make time for ill health.

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1793 on: February 04, 2020, 07:20:07 pm »
I've upgraded the Tacx to a direct drive Elite Suito, and I've even climbed on it now.

Oh my my. Unfit? Moi? Turned my FTP down to 220 (from 275) and I could still only do less than half an hour :(

Maybe I'll try 200.

The Suito is a damn fine piece of kit, though.

You don't lose 50 Watt overnight... most likely the first number was largely incorrect

We don’t know when the 275 figure dates from.  It could be a figure from 6 or more months ago.

Vast majority of numbers people come up with are totally meaningless.  FTP is not an easy number to churn out

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Base training
« Reply #1794 on: February 04, 2020, 08:02:03 pm »
True, but the purpose of the ftp (for most of us) is not to reflect the actual power we can put out for an hour, but to ensure that our workouts are done at the 'right' intensity. It's easier to do that with actual numbers than with perceived exertion,even if the ftp number isn't what it purports to be.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1795 on: February 05, 2020, 07:33:57 am »
True, but the purpose of the ftp (for most of us) is not to reflect the actual power we can put out for an hour, but to ensure that our workouts are done at the 'right' intensity. It's easier to do that with actual numbers than with perceived exertion,even if the ftp number isn't what it purports to be.

Yes, consistency is more important than the actual number, but as you can see above, consistency is the main problem. It is simply quite difficult to give 100% in a time frame of 1 hour, 20 minutes or whatever you want to use to measure it... it takes a lot of practice just to find where the limit is.


zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #1796 on: February 05, 2020, 10:00:06 am »
that's where the ramp test comes in. it removes the guesswork of pacing, reduces the length of suffering to ~five minutes (instead of 20min or 1hr) and gives a very good estimate of one's ftp.

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1797 on: February 05, 2020, 10:18:46 am »
that's where the ramp test comes in. it removes the guesswork of pacing, reduces the length of suffering to ~five minutes (instead of 20min or 1hr) and gives a very good estimate of one's ftp.

Problem is you can only do it indoors and if you then don't train indoors, the numbers are meaningless.
I don't use power and still prefer to find a hill and get my numbers from a VAM, essentially because I only ride outdoors and mostly on hilly terrain.
On a Wattbike, I never managed to get any decent number... I overheat and give up much sooner than I would on a real bike

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #1798 on: February 05, 2020, 10:28:02 am »
it's not a problem, as the numbers indoors and outdoors match quite well, i use several power meters and years of data to confirm this. the overheating problem can be solved with a good fan(s).

keep doing whatever works for you :thumbsup:

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1799 on: February 05, 2020, 10:34:31 am »
it's not a problem, as the numbers indoors and outdoors match quite well, i use several power meters and years of data to confirm this. the overheating problem can be solved with a good fan(s).

keep doing whatever works for you :thumbsup:

It's horses for courses, I have only used Wattbikes in a gym, where there was no fan and the temperature was way too high for comfort