Author Topic: Base training  (Read 132489 times)

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Base training
« Reply #1875 on: March 12, 2020, 03:35:10 pm »
Interesting, thanks. 

I think my main issue is that I don't have much confidence in the ramp test as an accurate way to measure my FTP.  Essentially, I think it is under-measuring significantly and making intervals based on it easier than they ought to be to actually be sweet spot. 

I need to try a different test!

Zwift workout plans have a zone checker at the start of the programme- whereby you do a set of intervals and it tells you how they should feel:
https://whatsonzwift.com/workouts/fondo/week-1-zwift-fondo-wk1-wo1-welcome/
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

Re: Base training
« Reply #1876 on: March 24, 2020, 04:09:25 pm »
If anyone wants to try Trainer Road for a month for free during the lockdown, message me an email address and I'll refer you. The only restriction is that you can't have used that email with TR before.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1877 on: March 24, 2020, 04:22:44 pm »
Sulking......

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1878 on: March 25, 2020, 07:15:10 am »
I've been living with a power meter for two weeks now. Cancellation of all AUK events + semi curfew means I have refocussed my cycling and been out for shorter rides... my 4 hours have become 1.5-2. What the power meter does is alert me to push harder. Sometimes I feel I am having a good workout, but really I'm only doing 160 Watt, not to speak about only doing 60 or so on slight downhills. So I feel guilty and push harder. The net result is that average speed has gone up by nearly 2 mph, which is very big. Of course PR galore on Strava.
Weight has gone down by almost 3 kg, but that is probably due to WFH and the lack of biscuits and cakes and various junk food one eats at work.
All being well, I might be lean and mean for the autumn hill climb season!  :thumbsup:

LMT

Re: Base training
« Reply #1879 on: March 25, 2020, 10:39:41 am »
I've been living with a power meter for two weeks now. Cancellation of all AUK events + semi curfew means I have refocussed my cycling and been out for shorter rides... my 4 hours have become 1.5-2. What the power meter does is alert me to push harder. Sometimes I feel I am having a good workout, but really I'm only doing 160 Watt, not to speak about only doing 60 or so on slight downhills. So I feel guilty and push harder. The net result is that average speed has gone up by nearly 2 mph, which is very big. Of course PR galore on Strava.
Weight has gone down by almost 3 kg, but that is probably due to WFH and the lack of biscuits and cakes and various junk food one eats at work.
All being well, I might be lean and mean for the autumn hill climb season!  :thumbsup:

That's an interesting point, if you are out doing a steady state ride you be pushing zone 2 power on the downhills, many cyclists just coast.

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1880 on: March 25, 2020, 11:34:29 am »
Just back from my one a day in the great outdoors

1.5 hours, 30 km/h average, 180 Watt average, 195 Watt Weighted average (whatever that is)... a couple of short 20 second bursts at 500 Watt...  :thumbsup:

Re: Base training
« Reply #1881 on: March 25, 2020, 12:19:43 pm »
Watt Weighted average (whatever that is)

Usually something like Normalised Power (from https://medium.com/critical-powers/formulas-from-training-and-racing-with-a-power-meter-2a295c661b46 ):-

Quote
Normalized Power

Normalized Power (NP) is a metric to quantify training intensity with power data and is introduced by Andrew Coggan. The concept of NP is discussed in chapter 7 of the book. It is especially useful in conjuction with the other algorithms below.

    Step 1: Calculate the rolling average with a window of 30 seconds: Start at 30 seconds, calculate the average power of the previous 30 seconds and to the for every second after that.

    Step 2: Calculate the 4th power of the values from the previous step.

    Step 3: Calculate the average of the values from the previous step.

    Step 4: Take the fourth root of the average from the previous step. This is your normalized power.

Raising things to the 4th power means that big power spikes are worth a lot more than smooth power.

Putting it another way, 1 hour of smooth 150W is much easier than 15 minutes of 600W spread out over an hour with 45 minutes or rest. But with a naive average they'd both be considered "equal". Normalised Power is an attempt to make an average that is more representative of the real world effort.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1882 on: March 25, 2020, 12:37:58 pm »
I see,

so the expectation is that the more varied the terrain the more the two values will diverge, given hills inevitably lead to higher bursts of power, over flats, unless one is deliberately doing "intervals".

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #1883 on: March 30, 2020, 06:26:18 pm »
TrainerRoad have just launched group workouts. Good timing (not by accident, I suspect).

Edit: link

Re: Base training
« Reply #1884 on: March 31, 2020, 07:54:28 pm »
Sulking......

Race bike back on the turbo.   First go in race position since last September and did 90 mins.   Glutes and hips will need some stretching out.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1885 on: April 01, 2020, 08:56:27 am »
I am trying to keep some focus by restarting TrainerRoad ss base if I can keep that up it will take me 3 months down the road and we can see where we are all at.
I have knocked down my ftp by 10 watts (at least for the first 6 weeks)so I don’t find the sessions to hard as I can’t see any point in that with the current situation .

Re: Base training
« Reply #1886 on: April 01, 2020, 09:54:12 am »
I have costochronditis, so I can't train at all. :( I tried doing Volunteer, which is 30 minutes of low intensity, and it felt relatively hard while I was doing it and irritated my ribs. So I basically can't do any exercise that requires me to breathe deeply until they are better. I'm gonna come out of this lockdown weighing 10kg more and with an FTP 100W down on my peak from 2 summers ago.

Phil W

Re: Base training
« Reply #1887 on: April 01, 2020, 10:25:16 am »
I’m doing high intensity once a week and the rest low intensity. So hopefully it won’t get easier nor get harder.  A fitness plateau is fine right now. A holding pattern to minimise losses.

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1888 on: April 02, 2020, 06:36:03 pm »
Now consistently doing 90 minutes @ 200-205 Watt average, average speed steadily > 30 km/h. Having lost weight, that means about 3 W/kg.

Trying to work on short < 1 minute bursts at 400-500 Watt. The other day I managed 20 s at 525 Watt, which I was quit pleased with  :thumbsup:

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #1889 on: April 02, 2020, 06:47:06 pm »
Now consistently doing 90 minutes @ 200-205 Watt average, average speed steadily > 30 km/h. Having lost weight, that means about 3 W/kg.

Trying to work on short < 1 minute bursts at 400-500 Watt. The other day I managed 20 s at 525 Watt, which I was quit pleased with  :thumbsup:

Good effort. I managed similar for 20s yesterday.

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1890 on: April 08, 2020, 11:22:22 am »
Now steadily doing 90 min at 205-210 Watt weighted average... put on some "summer" fast tyres and average speed has gone up to > 31 km/h...  :thumbsup:

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1891 on: April 15, 2020, 01:44:02 pm »
Still doing 90 minutes a day, now 210-220 W weighted average and 32 km/h... wonder when I am going to peak...  ::-)

Re: Base training
« Reply #1892 on: April 18, 2020, 05:21:18 pm »
My "season" was focused on prep for an Alps trip in July, but that trip's now deferred to 2021. I'm carrying on with my TR training plan but without the July fixed date to peak at...

This means using TR more akin to how it used to operate prior to their Calendar introduction: none of my outdoor rides (or runs) replace any TR workouts, they just push the TR workouts into the future, so I still intend to do, indoors, pretty much every remaining workout in the Build (nearly done) & Speciality phases I'd originally planned in. The outdoor stuff is adding lots of base-type work + bouts of high intensity. Unlikely to do any Ramp Tests though, just play it by ear and err on the cautious/lower side.

Should have me sort of peaking somewhere between late July and Sept, depending on "events" and most importantly the weather!

The intention of still following the TR plan, albeit stretched out and absent the tests, is to keep some focus so I don't just amble around for a few months and find by late summer my fitness has slid markedly, leaving me a bigger mountain to climb for next season.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1893 on: April 18, 2020, 06:05:00 pm »
I had been building steadily from early Jan.  April and May were to be about pushing the weekend rides longer and lumpier, keeping the turbo work shorter and higher intensity.  With my goals moving and being rescheduled the earliest I can consider needing to be fit is probably August.  With this in mind I chatted through the plan with my coach and we’re on more of a hold programme.

My road riding is now flat to what I did in Feb/Mar and the turbo volume has been increased but the intensity dropped with all work now in TT position.  We’ll be in this pattern for a couple of months and maybe put a build in when I know what races I can do.  What this may mean is that I build fitness by the Autumn where there are a couple of races I could do and then carry this through to 2021.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1894 on: April 19, 2020, 08:30:51 pm »
I have been commuting at least 3 days a week and an hour in each direction. All done on steel single speed with pannier and laptop. I have stopped wearing a heart monitor and only look at the total time for the ride.  My commute is gradually getting longer as I get faster and is generally flat/ rolling with about 10m per I’m rise.
When I got to a speed where my feet were turning as fast as felt possible I dropped from 18 tooth to 16.  Now looking for a larger front chain ring.
Gradually getting faster but removing all the extra bits means I have no hesitation in slowing down to appreciate the sunrise, watch the lambs and check out the changing countryside. I am really enjoying cycling!

Re: Base training
« Reply #1895 on: April 19, 2020, 09:04:13 pm »
That's great! It's funny how it comes along like that and you hit a golden period.  I find it is when other things permit. I had  a great time a couple of summers ago when the pressure was off at work a bit and I could risk being late a little without repercussion. I would vary my commute every day, sometimes setting off at 5.30am, and gambling on doing extra loops when I wasnt sure I had time. Plus, this spring is sublime

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #1896 on: April 28, 2020, 10:36:47 am »
back on a turbo with the first hiit session today, after a ten week break. i did a "basin" workout, the last minute of each interval stung quite a bit. haven't done the ftp test since november last year, but it feels about the same (the workouts are still doable).

Re: Base training
« Reply #1897 on: April 28, 2020, 11:02:34 am »
I did Carter and Volunteer over the weekend. They felt OK, hard enough to know you've been working, but easy enough to watch YouTube! I was trying to do Volunteer alongside my daughter, but she was having trouble clipping into her pedals which interrupted my rise somewhat (someone gave her a pair of MTB shoes last 'cross season and now she wants to clip in like everyone else). I'm going to need to get her slick tyres (and maybe even hook up the speed sensor) if she persists in using her turbo. :)

I didn't use my chest HR strap because that makes my ribs worse, but the only solution to them is a new desk and ergonomic sitting position. I'm going to try to do short workouts like those 3 or 4 times a week for a little while until I've sorted out the WFH desk properly and my ribs are properly better. I reckon a ramp test now would knacker them for weeks!

Side bonus - I have a lost a bit of weight in the lockdown despite not riding much. I think it's because the office has loads of junk food floating around, and I have little willpower when there are free donuts! The scales are reporting a drop in body fat %, so it can't all be muscle loss!

S2L

Re: Base training
« Reply #1898 on: April 28, 2020, 11:09:39 am »


Side bonus - I have a lost a bit of weight in the lockdown despite not riding much. I think it's because the office has loads of junk food floating around, and I have little willpower when there are free donuts! The scales are reporting a drop in body fat %, so it can't all be muscle loss!

Same here... junk food at work removed and I am 4 kg lighter... without doing any dieting... not keen to go back any time soon

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #1899 on: April 28, 2020, 11:19:55 am »
Quality of my diet has improved a fair bit. I'm doing lots of home cooked veg.

Although the banoffee pie I made on Sunday...