Base training

[Lightning Phil]

TrainerRoad claim that improving your FTP will improve performance on every type of cycling event from track sprints to gran fondo

I think it is broadly right because riders who are fast in long distance time trials are almost invariably also fast over shorter distances.  However, there is some scope to change the shape of the curve a bit by focusing on a particular segment of it and neglecting another.

I’m sure they will not have focused on FTP only, and therefore shorter efforts.

My point was that you can focus soley on improving your ftp and indeed succeed in that task. But when it comes to longer durations over many hours , if you’ve neglected that side , you may end up slower.

[Karla]

TrainerRoad claim that improving your FTP will improve performance on every type of cycling event from track sprints to gran fondo

I think it is broadly right because riders who are fast in long distance time trials are almost invariably also fast over shorter distances.  However, there is some scope to change the shape of the curve a bit by focusing on a particular segment of it and neglecting another.

Bear in mind that even a 10 is largely an endurance effort. 

[Frank9755]

TrainerRoad claim that improving your FTP will improve performance on every type of cycling event from track sprints to gran fondo

I think it is broadly right because riders who are fast in long distance time trials are almost invariably also fast over shorter distances.  However, there is some scope to change the shape of the curve a bit by focusing on a particular segment of it and neglecting another.

I’m sure they will not have focused on FTP only, and therefore shorter efforts.

My point was that you can focus soley on improving your ftp and indeed succeed in that task. But when it comes to longer durations over many hours , if you’ve neglected that side , you may end up slower.

Yes, but I think we're saying slightly different things. 

That would be an example of someone's curve having taken a particular shape by deliberately avoiding training for longer events. So yes, I would agree that, if you make a special effort not to be any good at events of more than an hour, you could well achieve that.  So someone who trains for 10s and does lots of VO2 max and intervals, but never rides for over two hours wouldn't be much good over a 24.  And lots of people do that and don't bother with long events (which is why I phrased it the way round that I did - while pretty much everyone who is fast over long events is also fast over short ones, not everyone who is fast over short events is fast over long ones, as most don't do them).

But is such a person not fast over long events because they don't have the fitness, or is it because they don't have the conditioning?  I suspect it is the latter because it is usually relatively easy for someone who is fast over short distances to become fast over long ones just by doing a few longer rides.

[fboab]

The plan I'm currently doing is "3 day stage race". My Zwift Race performance is diminishing- my sprint is poorer and I can't hold my FTP+10% (race climbing pace) as long. This is expected- I'm not training those parts of the curve.

I'd expect it much more that way round than the other- if I were training for shorter efforts, it would have less of a negative effect on longer efforts.

[Legs]

The plan I'm currently doing is "3 day stage race". My Zwift Race performance is diminishing- my sprint is poorer and I can't hold my FTP+10% (race climbing pace) as long. This is expected- I'm not training those parts of the curve.

One word: Gorby.

[Lightning Phil]

I think endurance / fatigue resistance takes longer to fade, but fade it does.  Three years ago I had my highest ftp, and yet I was struggling at the longer distances.  I’d been doing the intervals and neglecting the longer training rides. Reducing the number of high intensity sessions and bringing the longer “training” rides back has done wonders for endurance since.

I think my top end goes relatively quickly but also comes back relatively quickly.  My endurance fades more slowly but takes longer to bring back.

I’m happier with a lower ftp if my endurance / fatigue resistance and resilience over multi hour or day events is better. As for sprint power, it’s none existent, but it’s not important for the rides I like doing.

[fboab]

The plan I'm currently doing is "3 day stage race". My Zwift Race performance is diminishing- my sprint is poorer and I can't hold my FTP+10% (race climbing pace) as long. This is expected- I'm not training those parts of the curve.

One word: Gorby.

Except I don't mind- the thing I actually want to train is longer distance. I'm happy to sacrifice virtual medals for 3 day less-uncomfort on events I really care about.

[Legs]

In that case, you don't really want anything other than junk miles. 

[DuncanM]

I think the argument about TR pushing you too hard might be somewhat different in the near future:
https://www.trainerroad.com/blog/introducing-adaptive-training-the-right-workout-every-time/

Sounds interesting.  I'd definitely sign up, if I were training.

[Lightning Phil]

Adaptive training is at start of the hype cycle

[toontra]

I think the argument about TR pushing you too hard might be somewhat different in the near future:
https://www.trainerroad.com/blog/introducing-adaptive-training-the-right-workout-every-time/

Sounds interesting.  I'd definitely sign up, if I were training.

If you're still on the grandfathered sub then you won't need to sign up.  Existing subs continue at no additional cost.

Purely anecdotal but even with the existing "dumb" plans I'm doing stuff I could only have dreamt of until now.  My FTP is up 40w on pre TR levels and I'm occasionally getting the "magic carpet" effect out on the road.  Whether it will last....

[DuncanM]

I think the argument about TR pushing you too hard might be somewhat different in the near future:
https://www.trainerroad.com/blog/introducing-adaptive-training-the-right-workout-every-time/

Sounds interesting.  I'd definitely sign up, if I were training.

If you're still on the grandfathered sub then you won't need to sign up.  Existing subs continue at no additional cost.

Purely anecdotal but even with the existing "dumb" plans I'm doing stuff I could only have dreamt of until now.  My FTP is up 40w on pre TR levels and I'm occasionally getting the "magic carpet" effect out on the road.  Whether it will last....

The adaptive stuff requires you to ask to join the program. My subscription expired while I was injured - I contacted them saying I didn't want to lose the grandfather, but I didn't know when I would next able to ride, and they said I could resume on my old plan when healthy. Quality customer service. 

[Lightning Phil]

Did a ramp test a couple of days ago.  Ftp came out pretty much same as last July at my peak.  So high intensity (getting up to 90-92% max HR) rest low intensity (under 70% max HR) once a week was enough to maintain it all these months.  Planning to restart building on Monday.

[toontra]

The adaptive stuff requires you to ask to join the program. My subscription expired while I was injured - I contacted them saying I didn't want to lose the grandfather, but I didn't know when I would next able to ride, and they said I could resume on my old plan when healthy. Quality customer service. 

 

Let's hope that's soon!

[Frank9755]

Did a ramp test a couple of days ago.  Ftp came out pretty much same as last July at my peak.  So high intensity (getting up to 90-92% max HR) rest low intensity (under 70% max HR) once a week was enough to maintain it all these months.  Planning to restart building on Monday.

Interesting: polarised training. 

But is maintaining fitness at a steady level a good thing?  I'd understood that:
- we are always either getting fitter or less fit
- we can't continue to get fit for ever or else you burn out.
Hence an off-season fall in fitness is essential in order to enable higher fitness the following season.

EDIT maybe FTP <> fitness, so perhaps its a different point.

[Lightning Phil]

Did a ramp test a couple of days ago.  Ftp came out pretty much same as last July at my peak.  So high intensity (getting up to 90-92% max HR) rest low intensity (under 70% max HR) once a week was enough to maintain it all these months.  Planning to restart building on Monday.

Interesting: polarised training. 

But is maintaining fitness at a steady level a good thing?  I'd understood that:
- we are always either getting fitter or less fit
- we can't continue to get fit for ever or else you burn out.
Hence an off-season fall in fitness is essential in order to enable higher fitness the following season.

EDIT maybe FTP <> fitness, so perhaps its a different point.

I don’t see why maintaining equilibrium would be an issue. You’re not trying to get fitter for ever and load is actually very sustainable.   I haven’t seen anywhere state you need a fall in fitness to get fitter the next year.  In fact let it fall too far and you’ll spend half your season just trying to get back to where you were. You’re just consolidating your fitness on a plateau for a few months, rather than rolling back down the mountain in your off season. Then next season starting at the bottom of the same mountain again.  Never progressing year on year but just oscillating up and down as the years pass.