Author Topic: Base training  (Read 96354 times)

Re: Base training
« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2015, 12:58:55 pm »
I'm finding the hardest part of The Plan is the spinning.
Big-Ass gears at <60RPM a piece of proverbial (HRMax-ing) piss- but then I'm happier on 73" than 69" and can leg press much more than my not-insignificant bodyweight. Maintaining 90+RPM and keeping HR 80 or 85% just isn't happening. I reckon it's the lardy legs- you try strapping a 2kg weight on each thigh and see how long you can spin them at 100RPM, Mr Coach.

Anything that adds resistance to the cycling action in training is a good thing.
Such as:-
Ankle weights.
Chainmail trousers.
Wet suit dungerees.

Re: Base training
« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2015, 01:03:33 pm »
You guys aren't helping me get started, y'know...  :facepalm:

2 weeks before I start properly again, including a week of holiday.   TT bike is now on the turbo again and I have bought some wireless headphones that should make the process a bit more bearable.    Not entirely looking forward to 5am sessions in a cold garage again.

Re: Base training
« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2015, 01:10:20 pm »
My excuse is that my daughter is teething and I'm tired.  Really tired.  Maybe next week.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #53 on: October 08, 2015, 05:25:35 pm »
You guys aren't helping me get started, y'know...  :facepalm:

You know how people sometimes describe a "pleasant ache" after exercise?

I don't have that.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #54 on: October 08, 2015, 10:08:11 pm »
I had a deload week last week and should be doing Tempo intervals tonight. But the squats on Tuesday have made my quads very sore today, so I dunno.

Two hour tempo session didn’t appeal. So I had a look at shorter workouts at that sort of intensity, and came across this one, which I’ve been meaning to give a go:

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/2415119-Bays

Those sprints were around 450-460W for 20s. What fun we had. Feel better for it.

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
  • 3x Brimstone ancien 3x Pendle/Tan Hill DNF
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Re: Base training
« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2015, 10:04:19 am »
I'm finding the hardest part of The Plan is the spinning.
Big-Ass gears at <60RPM a piece of proverbial (HRMax-ing) piss- but then I'm happier on 73" than 69" and can leg press much more than my not-insignificant bodyweight. Maintaining 90+RPM and keeping HR 80 or 85% just isn't happening. I reckon it's the lardy legs- you try strapping a 2kg weight on each thigh and see how long you can spin them at 100RPM, Mr Coach.

Anything that adds resistance to the cycling action in training is a good thing.
Such as:-
Ankle weights.
Chainmail trousers.
Wet suit dungerees.

Panniers full of bricks?  Or just my ancient laptop and a couple of notebooks.
Eddington Numbers 123 (imperial), 168 (metric) 516 (furlongs)  110 (nautical miles)

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2015, 11:14:48 pm »
I did 2.5h tempo intervals this evening. Low carb day in the lead up and only drank water. Heart rate started climbing from about half way. Was tough.


Re: Base training
« Reply #57 on: November 03, 2015, 02:47:53 pm »
I did 2.5h tempo intervals this evening. Low carb day in the lead up and only drank water. Heart rate started climbing from about half way. Was tough.

Coventry to Birmingham and back.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2015, 10:58:17 am »
Tried an FTP test yesterday.

Disastrous, I was well off where I was previously. Didn't complete it.

I put it down to working too long hours and not enough sleep. I'd noticed from the start my HR was 10bpm higher during the warm-up as it was at similar effort on Sunday.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #59 on: November 17, 2015, 10:21:49 pm »
Tried FTP test again today. It went a lot better than last week. I did the 2x8 minute test. Averaged 282W in each test effort which gives an FTP estimate of 253W. 1W down on last test but given I've been working on base training and rowing that's not too bad.

Re: Base training
« Reply #60 on: November 18, 2015, 07:20:27 am »
Now try the full hour.  :thumbsup:

Re: Base training
« Reply #61 on: November 19, 2015, 10:33:57 am »
First 4 weeks of project 2016 have been variable.   I'm either just about to start getting this right or I need to take a step back and re-start.   Overall I think I've been trying a bit hard and had maybe lost more fitness than expected between August and the end of October.

Going on a mini-tour for a couple of days to get my head back together.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #62 on: January 15, 2016, 09:35:41 pm »
I've nearly finished the current 6-week block. Have missed a few work-outs. Next week is meant to be an easy week to end the block and then FTP test to reassess fitness, and then start another 6-week base block.

If I've only maintained the FTP I had at the last test, that will still be a reasonable result, as it's almost at the peak I had before PBP, and possibly as much as 50W higher than this time last year.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #63 on: January 15, 2016, 11:30:39 pm »
is there a way to gauge the intensity at which to start ftp test? i get higher output readings on the rollers (with added resistance) than on the road, so if i have ftp=245w on the road should i ride at 280w, 290w? i don't want to keep doing it many times..

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #64 on: January 16, 2016, 12:57:20 am »
Probably, it's better to start a little too easy rather than a little too hard. Work up to what you think you can sustain over the first minute or so.

Beyond that TrainerRoad recommends adjusting your pace every 5 minutes in the 20 minute test based on how it feels, I.e. split the effort into 1/4. Many people will be too conservative and have a surge in the last few minutes. This tends to result in an under estimate of true fitness.


LMT

Re: Base training
« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2016, 08:01:54 pm »
is there a way to gauge the intensity at which to start ftp test? i get higher output readings on the rollers (with added resistance) than on the road, so if i have ftp=245w on the road should i ride at 280w, 290w? i don't want to keep doing it many times..

I'd recommend doing the 3 minute test on a Wattbike and guage your FTP from there, the 3 minute test will give you a good ball park figure and it does not require any pacing - just full gas for three minutes which of course hurts - a lot. Then go back the next day and do the FTP test for real.

Pay for a day pass at your local Virgin gym (or other that has a wattbike) a lot easier to pace on a wattbike then out on the road and in doing so will give you a far more relative figure to train from. The power curve for a FTP test should be near enough straight with a 5 minute flourish at the end where you empty the tank. I cannot see this being done better on the road than in a gym TBH. And in fact I've moved all my training indoors on the Wattbike - no junk miles at all.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #66 on: January 17, 2016, 12:49:58 pm »
thanks LMT and simonp - my local gym has got three wattbikes; i agree it is the most precise and standardised way to measure power output. i'll do some training on the rollers first and will do the 3min and ftp test on a wattbike early next month.

LMT

Re: Base training
« Reply #67 on: January 17, 2016, 01:43:20 pm »
If you take the 3 minute figure and plug it in here:-

http://wattbike.com/uk/heart-rate-and-power-training-zones

This will give you your training zones which includes Z4, ime this certainly feels right when training.

If you have a USB stick take this with you and plug it into the back of the machine, that way you can save your data for analysis later on. Also you can create a user profile which has your numbers already saved so it's easier to train from on the screen telling you what zone you are in rather then you having to remember.

FWIW mine was 446w and was by a fair chalk the most pain I've ever felt on a bike. And this will be re-tested at the end of the month after this current four week block of training comes to an end - can't wait. :facepalm: ;D

Re: Base training
« Reply #68 on: January 18, 2016, 06:58:08 am »
is there a way to gauge the intensity at which to start ftp test? i get higher output readings on the rollers (with added resistance) than on the road, so if i have ftp=245w on the road should i ride at 280w, 290w? i don't want to keep doing it many times..

Start off however you wish. If you fade and collapse, look at the recording and start the next test lower. If you still fade and collapse, start the next test a little lower. Keep doing this until you can sustain the starting output for the full 20 minute or 60 minute test.
When you can get through the whole test at a reasonably constant output, start the next test 1% higher.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #69 on: February 03, 2016, 08:42:17 pm »
2x8 minute test just now; 259W estimated.

That's the highest self tested FTP I've recorded, and is ~40W increase on a year ago. The sweet spot base training program does seem to be working, despite some disruptions.

I don't think I really had any more to give - I had my eyes shut for the final 30s of the second 8 minute interval.

Re: Base training
« Reply #70 on: February 04, 2016, 01:36:24 pm »
2x8 minute test just now; 259W estimated.

That's the highest self tested FTP I've recorded, and is ~40W increase on a year ago. The sweet spot base training program does seem to be working, despite some disruptions.

I don't think I really had any more to give - I had my eyes shut for the final 30s of the second 8 minute interval.

No no no... Keep your eyes on the finish line. You might hit the timekeeper.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #71 on: February 04, 2016, 02:01:37 pm »
Or the inside of the garage door.

Re: Base training
« Reply #72 on: February 05, 2016, 12:38:41 pm »
On this subject - how do people try push themselves to the end of an interval.    I've started counting down with my eyes shut and checking against the stopwatch every now and again.   Towards the end my breathing seems to be every second-ish so it works quite well.    I don't do any really short high-intensity efforts but I have some 2*20mins and 5min under/over which require a bit of concentration.

Also - has anyone else developed a dread of an upcoming session ?   I have got the point where an early morning session means an entire night barely sleeping.   I have moved my Monday and Wednesday sessions to evening, but I still spend way too much time thinking about the upcoming discomfort.    I find this a bit odd as I have pretty much never flaked or abandoned a session.

LMT

Re: Base training
« Reply #73 on: February 05, 2016, 12:53:07 pm »
On this subject - how do people try push themselves to the end of an interval.    I've started counting down with my eyes shut and checking against the stopwatch every now and again.   Towards the end my breathing seems to be every second-ish so it works quite well.    I don't do any really short high-intensity efforts but I have some 2*20mins and 5min under/over which require a bit of concentration.

Also - has anyone else developed a dread of an upcoming session ?   I have got the point where an early morning session means an entire night barely sleeping.   I have moved my Monday and Wednesday sessions to evening, but I still spend way too much time thinking about the upcoming discomfort.    I find this a bit odd as I have pretty much never flaked or abandoned a session.

By knowing that the pain will end.

And no I can't say that I do dread going on the Wattbike for a sess. Are you recovering fully before training?

Re: Base training
« Reply #74 on: February 05, 2016, 12:55:59 pm »
36-48hrs between hard sessions.   Only riding in between is commuting which I do pretty gently.    My legs are usually fresh in time for the next session.

I'm convinced it's a mental thing - similar to staying awake all night before a long ride or a race.   You know you need to sleep which makes it worse.