Author Topic: Base training  (Read 87526 times)

Re: Base training
« Reply #1400 on: February 11, 2019, 09:05:50 am »
I can't do the super hard efforts before breakfast.  If I have something (even just half a banana) before then they become much more manageable. I suspect I'm much more carb dependant than most, because I tend to do shorter rides (and training), so I work with that to be able to train as effectively as I can.
My legs hurt today after yesterday's 4x15. I have Dade +1 (9 x 2.5 minute bursts of VO2 max) tomorrow - wonder how they will deal with that!

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #1401 on: February 11, 2019, 09:28:15 am »
Nearly 9h of training last week between rowing cycling and weights. TR has Monday off but I do not. Back at the rowing club for erg or weights (river too high) tonight.  :-\

Re: Base training
« Reply #1402 on: February 11, 2019, 10:19:13 am »
Nearly 9h of training last week between rowing cycling and weights. TR has Monday off but I do not. Back at the rowing club for erg or weights (river too high) tonight.  :-\
That is high volume, given the intensity for each activity. How are you finding it? From your posts here it seems you are making good gains, but I know if I tried to do that then I'd just break!

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Base training
« Reply #1403 on: February 11, 2019, 10:23:00 am »
I do intermittent fasting so generally I only eat between noon and about 7pm. I get better results (higher watts for longer) when I train in the evening, but I'll still do anaerobic efforts in the morning.
It's supposed to be hard. You can't develop the ability to do it without, erm, doing it.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #1404 on: February 11, 2019, 10:52:19 am »
I have to be at the rowing club for 7:45 and this means no time for a real breakfast. So I often end up doing 2.5 hours on the water and then eat. I do have coffee and sometimes I’ll have an energy drink. You can’t drink while rowing though.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1405 on: February 12, 2019, 01:18:06 pm »
My legs hurt today after yesterday's 4x15. I have Dade +1 (9 x 2.5 minute bursts of VO2 max) tomorrow - wonder how they will deal with that!
Well that went well. Had an event where I had loads of standing around and ~9000 steps yesterday. Didn't sleep well at all. I was very tempted to skip it and just stay in bed, but I can't train tomorrow because of a work thing, so I set the alarm for a bit later than normal, got up, and did a couple of the VO2 intervals. That was one of my resolutions this year - if I can't do the scheduled workout, at least do something.

https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/50329594-dade


Re: Base training
« Reply #1406 on: February 12, 2019, 08:26:58 pm »
I was very tempted to skip it and just stay in bed, but I can't train tomorrow because of a work thing, so I set the alarm for a bit later than normal, got up, and did a couple of the VO2 intervals. That was one of my resolutions this year - if I can't do the scheduled workout, at least do something.

https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/50329594-dade

I think this is quite important for those of us with jobs still. (I am quite jealous of pedal castro!)  Anything is better than nothing

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #1407 on: February 12, 2019, 09:40:50 pm »
I like it when I think I'm fatigued and a workout looks scary at the best of times and it's still completed on target.

https://www.trainerroad.com/career/sproven/rides/50379777-bashful-6

Re: Base training
« Reply #1408 on: February 13, 2019, 07:21:21 pm »
That's very impressive.  The front 2/3rds looks really hard (and the last 3rd really boring!).
If you can nail that when fatigued, then after a rest week your FTP is gonna get a nice jump.  :thumbsup:

Re: Base training
« Reply #1409 on: February 13, 2019, 08:49:05 pm »
Completed every session I have been given since I started back in November right up until tonight.   Failed the last 3min VO2max rep.   I’ve always hated top end work and this was the first one for ages.   Bollocks.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1410 on: February 14, 2019, 08:07:56 am »
Completed every session I have been given since I started back in November right up until tonight.   Failed the last 3min VO2max rep.   I’ve always hated top end work and this was the first one for ages.   Bollocks.

I'm new to this so don't claim any great knowledge.  But isn't that a good thing?  If they were always achievable, isn't it likely that they were a bit too easy and you were not getting maximum training benefit.  Don't you need the odd one to be too hard to know that the other 9x% are hard enough?

Re: Base training
« Reply #1411 on: February 14, 2019, 09:54:23 am »
Completed every session I have been given since I started back in November right up until tonight.   Failed the last 3min VO2max rep.   I’ve always hated top end work and this was the first one for ages.   Bollocks.

I'm new to this so don't claim any great knowledge.  But isn't that a good thing?  If they were always achievable, isn't it likely that they were a bit too easy and you were not getting maximum training benefit.  Don't you need the odd one to be too hard to know that the other 9x% are hard enough?

Yeah, suppose so.   This week has seen a reduction in volume but an increase in intensity.   I normally do a turbo session Tue/Thu but had to do Tue/Wed this week.   I suspect that with the additional day of recovery I would be able to handle the session.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1412 on: February 14, 2019, 10:43:56 am »
I did 5 x 3 min VO2 max , 3 min recovery on Monday.  I was due to do lactate threshold yesterday but my HRV App said I needed active recovery.  Reflected how I felt, today it said go for it as I had recovered, and was able to complete my lactate threshold intervals.  So in my view depends on reason for the failure, failure because you are not recovered from previous workout is not necessarily good. Plus physiologically not completing a workout does not make you feel good.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1413 on: February 14, 2019, 12:09:55 pm »
If you are failing on the last interval of a set though, you have done almost the whole workout as prescribed. External factors have to be taken into account, especially if you have cut your recovery time from the previous workout.
If I'm doing Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday intervals, the plan calls for the VO2 Max stuff to be on Tuesday. If I do the big workout on Sunday, and especially if I have something else on the Monday, I really struggle - I think the extra rest makes a huge amount of difference to these sessions.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1414 on: February 14, 2019, 04:59:45 pm »
The psychology of it is interesting.  Definitely not good to fail many as you would lose confidence.  But if you fail the odd one, that reinforces the belief that they are hard, hence succeeding in doing them is worth more than if you believed that they were easy, or just hard-ish.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #1415 on: February 14, 2019, 07:29:41 pm »
Old school method of intervals was keep doing them until your time for a set course (no power meters then) increased by 10% or some other predetermined value, so basically keep going until failure.

My cold seemed to be better today so I did low cadence high torque efforts to keep heart rate low but making the session useful. Rest tomorrow and a 200km on Saturday hopefully.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #1416 on: February 14, 2019, 07:34:10 pm »
I was very tempted to skip it and just stay in bed, but I can't train tomorrow because of a work thing, so I set the alarm for a bit later than normal, got up, and did a couple of the VO2 intervals. That was one of my resolutions this year - if I can't do the scheduled workout, at least do something.

https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/50329594-dade

I think this is quite important for those of us with jobs still. (I am quite jealous of pedal castro!)  Anything is better than nothing

I thought you had retired!  ;)

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #1417 on: February 14, 2019, 07:46:57 pm »
I'm not doing tonight's workout, so I can't fail.  ::-)

Would be able to but we are doing an important piece on the water at the rowing club on Saturday and I've decided to rest.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1418 on: February 14, 2019, 07:54:08 pm »
I was very tempted to skip it and just stay in bed, but I can't train tomorrow because of a work thing, so I set the alarm for a bit later than normal, got up, and did a couple of the VO2 intervals. That was one of my resolutions this year - if I can't do the scheduled workout, at least do something.

https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/50329594-dade

I think this is quite important for those of us with jobs still. (I am quite jealous of pedal castro!)  Anything is better than nothing

I thought you had retired!  ;)

I did retire and return.  But seem to be working harder now than before I retired!!  The problem is that I have 2-3 projects I need to keep pushing to the point of being self sustaining.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1419 on: February 14, 2019, 10:31:06 pm »
I changed a few things this week as we moved onto the next block of training after a couple of rare days off.   My coach also chose this week to introduce some high intensity work.  I either pushed the early intervals too hard or I wasn’t quite ready for the higher end work.   Something wasn’t right and I couldn’t sustain the effort and my HR was roofing.

I’m back to a more normal pattern next week and can now up the road miles which should help my mood.


Re: Base training
« Reply #1420 on: February 15, 2019, 08:54:22 am »
This week has been a bit of a mess.  Loads of time in the car on Wednesday, an event with loads of standing up yesterday, and my back and hamstring (it's always the right lower back and left hamstring) were tight this morning. I figured I'd give it a go, got off and stretched after the first interval, but it wasn't getting any better, even after turning down the intensity, so I pulled the plug and did some stretching instead. There are only 4 hard workouts left in Build now, and it feels a bit like when I should be making the biggest improvements I'm just not getting it done, so it's really annoying.

https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/50558257-mt-hale-2

PS and I managed to leave the front tyre of my road bike touching the back tyre of the trainer bike after moving it to get something from behind it yesterday. I found out when there was a strange noise and a loud hissing! :( I think I've ridden outside on that tyre once, and indoors it stays still, so it's probably the fewest miles I've ever covered on a tyre before the first puncture! :(

Re: Base training
« Reply #1421 on: February 16, 2019, 01:58:34 pm »
5hr road ride this morning.  Zone 2 for 4hrs then gentle.  85miles covered on rolling roads.

Not ridden more than 2hrs since last October so really pleased.   Hand is sore but it will handle 200k.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1422 on: February 16, 2019, 02:30:25 pm »
5hr road ride this morning.  Zone 2 for 4hrs then gentle.  85miles covered on rolling roads.

Not ridden more than 2hrs since last October so really pleased.   Hand is sore but it will handle 200k.


I am similarly lacking long rides over winter. Think my longest is about four hours. I am out tomorrow on a long ride to address that. Will be almost 200km but not doing as Audax so I can address lack of distance without needing to pass through controls or obey any time limits if I decide on pub stop etc.

Thought I had best try some Audax type distance before I reach my PBP qualifiers.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1423 on: February 16, 2019, 04:03:39 pm »
I finished Sweet Spot Base 2 low vol, replacing the final workout Leconte with a similar intensity short but hard real ride, my first one outdoors for 6 months! Felt fine, although neck's a bit sore as on the trainer I've a) no helmet and b) look down-ish at a bar-mounted screen rather than forward.

FTP-wise in TR, I've lowered it slightly from my last test as it felt a little too high in the past couple of weeks. Also, I won't be doing a ramp test to kick off Sustained Power Build and will play it by ear, adjusting upwards if workouts eventually begin to feel a little too "easy".

The aim, weather permitting, is to slot in a real ride per week in addition to the 3 scheduled workouts (low-volume plan), with any additional outdoor rides per week replacing a scheduled workout to ensure volume doesn't suddenly skyrocket but instead builds slowly over the coming months. I've learnt that patience and good recovery is rewarded.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1424 on: Yesterday at 08:05:19 pm »
3x18 minute intervals at theshold. Completed with only a couple of stops to stretch, so that'd definitely a win. It's going to be tough to do this in aero for 25 minutes at a time, but I guess it's easier outside than on the turbo (lack of flywheel)

https://www.trainerroad.com/career/duncanm23/rides/50704996-mount-goode-2